Uninsured Car Question - Legality
Discussion
matt21 said:
ref. the driving home. fair point. but to be fair, I was not the legal owner at this point. As it was through a friend no money was exchanged and as such the V5 was only completed 4 days later.
But going forward will bare this in mind!
The V5 is not about ownership. You say that you bought the car and then drove it home. In other words, you drove uninsured.But going forward will bare this in mind!
Breadvan73 said:
The V5 is not about ownership. You say that you bought the car and then drove it home. In other words, you drove uninsured.
He did say the no money had changed hands as well. So whilst he was driving with consent of the owner, and he was the custodian of the vehicle, it may be fair to say that title hadn't transferred, though there was a clear intention to buy - it would be a grey area to say of the transaction had completed?What does the OP mean by "bought a car", I wonder? If his friend gave him the car, the OP became the owner. No formality is required to transfer ownership of a car. I gave my brother a car last week. I said -"it's yours", and now it's his.
Edited by Breadvan73 on Friday 17th June 13:34
R0G said:
Solution =
Sell/transfer title of car to a family member or trusted friend and then sell it on their behalf
that way if you have insurance that covers you on cars not owned by you will be ok
Hmm, would add an extra owner to the history and most DOCs require that car to have insurance as well - though the detail will be in the small print.Sell/transfer title of car to a family member or trusted friend and then sell it on their behalf
that way if you have insurance that covers you on cars not owned by you will be ok
R0G said:
All the policies I have had simply say that the car being insured third party by my fully comp must not be owned by me - nothing about it having to be currently insured by anyone else
Yes, but they do vary. Some do require it to be fully insured. Sadly it's not a standard term.A silly rule - it will only punish the people who have their correct details registered with the DVLA.
As said - utter pain if buying/selling cars. Trip to post office or wait for online tax disk delivery needed. Then, if it's only for one test drive, get a refund on the tax (minus the "month" you have used, whether it's a month or half an hour).
Huge amount of hassle, not to mention extra money, and with no clear benefit at the end. I mean, if the ANPR cameras are so good, why are there any uninsured/unlicensed still on the road??
As said - utter pain if buying/selling cars. Trip to post office or wait for online tax disk delivery needed. Then, if it's only for one test drive, get a refund on the tax (minus the "month" you have used, whether it's a month or half an hour).
Huge amount of hassle, not to mention extra money, and with no clear benefit at the end. I mean, if the ANPR cameras are so good, why are there any uninsured/unlicensed still on the road??
NiceCupOfTea said:
A silly rule - it will only punish the people who have their correct details registered with the DVLA.
As previously stated - people who have no intention of being law abiding normally don'tNiceCupOfTea said:
As said - utter pain if buying/selling cars. Trip to post office or wait for online tax disk delivery needed. Then, if it's only for one test drive, get a refund on the tax (minus the "month" you have used, whether it's a month or half an hour).
Complete painJust to address a couple of points
If car is SORN my understanding an experience is online tax application is not possible - anyone managed to do it because I haven't?
So only option is post office, standing for a long time in a q that smells of urine with 12 slots but only one person serving is the only option
NiceCupOfTea said:
Huge amount of hassle, not to mention extra money, and with no clear benefit at the end. I mean, if the ANPR cameras are so good, why are there any uninsured/unlicensed still on the road??
ANPR system is great for the role - trouble is most of them (round my area) are effectively roadside units - identify cars uninsured, untaxed or without MOT - send fine/summons in the post to eitherMickey Mouse
The old house
Farm road
Newtown
or
No current registered keeper
So that works really well then.
The other thing is this penalty requires no intent to use a car on the road whilst uninsured - just owning a car (not on SORN) without insurance is enough to satisfy all the requirements to issue a penalty notice.
It's exactly the same a SORN penalties - maybe the revenues have fallen as a result of more people refusing to pay up and they needed a new revenue stream
Expect owning a car without an MOT to become a penalty offence in a couple of years (exception with be if NOT SORN) but it'll be the same thing.
R0G said:
Solution =
Sell/transfer title of car to a family member or trusted friend and then sell it on their behalf
that way if you have insurance that covers you on cars not owned by you will be ok
No - because ALL cars now have to be insured in the own right since the Continuous Insurance regulations were signed into law earlier this year.Sell/transfer title of car to a family member or trusted friend and then sell it on their behalf
that way if you have insurance that covers you on cars not owned by you will be ok
R0G said:
All the policies I have had simply say that the car being insured third party by my fully comp must not be owned by me - nothing about it having to be currently insured by anyone else
This point used to be argued about furiously. But it's irrelevant now due to the above.R0G said:
So the only way around the current regulations is to have the car SORN and transfer the title to a 'friend' which would allow the original owner to drive it if their fully comp insurance allows it?
Or would the SORN need to be lifted to allow it on the road?
Not if it was going to/from an MOT or a place of repair following MOT failure.Or would the SORN need to be lifted to allow it on the road?
R0G said:
Or would the SORN need to be lifted to allow it on the road?
I think the clue is in the O of SORN.If inusrance companies aren't co-operative with temporary additional cars, then CIE is going to make life very difficult for those who like to buy & sell privately.
(That may well be part of the idea - there have been EU murmurings about only allowing car sales through licenced dealers).
B'stard Child said:
And to SORN you must surrender the VED
The DVLA have very limited capability for dealing with scenarios, but althopugh the raft of orders, regultions and acts are badly worded and thought out there is no legal compulsion to surrender the VED. Send a special delivery letter retaing copy, informing them that you are declaring the car SORNed to comply with the Road Safety Act 2006 (Commencement No. 6) Order 2011. Complete this form and simply tell them that you are retaining and not surrendering the VED as is your prerogative. Richard C said:
B'stard Child said:
And to SORN you must surrender the VED
The DVLA have very limited capability for dealing with scenarios, but althopugh the raft of orders, regultions and acts are badly worded and thought out there is no legal compulsion to surrender the VED. Send a special delivery letter retaing copy, informing them that you are declaring the car SORNed to comply with the Road Safety Act 2006 (Commencement No. 6) Order 2011. Complete this form and simply tell them that you are retaining and not surrendering the VED as is your prerogative. However
Guidance notes
• You should not use this form if the vehicle is taxed and no longer used on the
public road. You need to return the disc (including nil value discs) to DVLA and
make a SORN using Application for a refund of vehicle tax when you have the
tax disc (V14) instead.
Have you done or know someone who has sucessfully followed the process you sugest
Edited by B'stard Child on Friday 17th June 20:12
Richard C said:
The DVLA have very limited capability for dealing with scenarios, but althopugh the raft of orders, regultions and acts are badly worded and thought out there is no legal compulsion to surrender the VED. Send a special delivery letter retaing copy, informing them that you are declaring the car SORNed to comply with the Road Safety Act 2006 (Commencement No. 6) Order 2011. Complete this form and simply tell them that you are retaining and not surrendering the VED as is your prerogative.
Thats an interesting slant on the whole thing. I've had a quick trawl through the DVLA's website and although it says that if you surrender the VED, you must declare SORN, I cant find anywhere that says to declare a SORN, you must surrender the VED!Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff