Discussion
Community service? Ie actually doing something useful? And maybe combined with traingin for a real job of some kind?
There was a suggestion - by lpgrocks - of a short spell in prison, say a week or two, then - OK behave or you'll spend a lot of time there!
How about combining that with a suspended sentence AND community service AND electronic tagging - so they don't have to leave their job - if they have one - saving the country huge amounts of benefit, they are seriously inconvenienced so they get a punishment, their movements are restricted and monitored so they are under control, and they learn that prison might not be fun. If they're there for such a short period then they won't have time to settle in and make new friends, they'll just get the initial shock.
Some people have talked about military service: would you want our country defended by scrotes (sp) like that?
There was a suggestion - by lpgrocks - of a short spell in prison, say a week or two, then - OK behave or you'll spend a lot of time there!
How about combining that with a suspended sentence AND community service AND electronic tagging - so they don't have to leave their job - if they have one - saving the country huge amounts of benefit, they are seriously inconvenienced so they get a punishment, their movements are restricted and monitored so they are under control, and they learn that prison might not be fun. If they're there for such a short period then they won't have time to settle in and make new friends, they'll just get the initial shock.
Some people have talked about military service: would you want our country defended by scrotes (sp) like that?
quote:
Community service? Ie actually doing something useful? And maybe combined with traingin for a real job of some kind?
There was a suggestion - by lpgrocks - of a short spell in prison, say a week or two, then - OK behave or you'll spend a lot of time there!
How about combining that with a suspended sentence AND community service AND electronic tagging - so they don't have to leave their job - if they have one - saving the country huge amounts of benefit, they are seriously inconvenienced so they get a punishment, their movements are restricted and monitored so they are under control, and they learn that prison might not be fun. If they're there for such a short period then they won't have time to settle in and make new friends, they'll just get the initial shock.
Some people have talked about military service: would you want our country defended by scrotes (sp) like that?
The Army no longer takes people who have criminal records, but the scrotes should be used as live targets for the Army to shoot at. Alternatively they should be used instead of animals for medical testing.
Like John, I've been involved in many pursuits and have seen what happens when they go wrong. Yes Outlaw Panda drivers are not as well trained as Response / Traffic Officers and, hand on heart, yes they can get a little to 'into it.'
The thing is though; car thieves drive like idiots everywhere. The reason they're spotted is because a member of the public calls us reporting erratic driving or an officer sees a car driving like mad. From personal experience, I have got behind two stolen vehicles having seen the registration plate and not because of the manner of their driving, the rest vice versa.
I've also seen a lot of accidents as a result of their driving, including two fatals. I think its unreasonable to blame the police for the way in which car thieves drive although I accept my view is tainted.
Regarding punishment; that is tough, perhaps prison doesn't rehabilitate, but it does keep other road users safe.
Regards
Rob
The thing is though; car thieves drive like idiots everywhere. The reason they're spotted is because a member of the public calls us reporting erratic driving or an officer sees a car driving like mad. From personal experience, I have got behind two stolen vehicles having seen the registration plate and not because of the manner of their driving, the rest vice versa.
I've also seen a lot of accidents as a result of their driving, including two fatals. I think its unreasonable to blame the police for the way in which car thieves drive although I accept my view is tainted.
Regarding punishment; that is tough, perhaps prison doesn't rehabilitate, but it does keep other road users safe.
Regards
Rob
quote:
This is what pisses me off. A concrete cell and bread and water doesn't cost 25k a year.
Well, it shouldn't, but this is the government
we are discussing ;->
On the other hand, for a lot of folks
in prison, it's a lot better facilities than on the outside.
Nice warm cell, three meals a day, like
a glorified social club.
And frequent visits from social workers,
with no idea about the real world. All you've
got to do is to tell them what they want to hear for
an hour.
Beats working for a living.
I take these mph figures with a pinch of salt. For example, my pal was pulled up, and he WAS doing 90 in a 60 limit. They said they had to do 140 to catch up, which meant he was doing 110 !!! (eh?? how did they work that out?)
They never took it to court, but have not told him it's been dropped - and this is 2 years later.
So when they say "5 kids doing 90", think of it more like "5 kids doing 70". Bad, but never as bad as they say. It's got to be more macho to put on the report card, and in the press, that the brave Panda car driver apprehended some kids at HIGH speed !!
This ain't a p**s take of you coppers, just an observation on human nature, and the need to exagerate. It also helps when convicting them, huh?
rgds.
They never took it to court, but have not told him it's been dropped - and this is 2 years later.
So when they say "5 kids doing 90", think of it more like "5 kids doing 70". Bad, but never as bad as they say. It's got to be more macho to put on the report card, and in the press, that the brave Panda car driver apprehended some kids at HIGH speed !!
This ain't a p**s take of you coppers, just an observation on human nature, and the need to exagerate. It also helps when convicting them, huh?
rgds.
quote:
I take these mph figures with a pinch of salt. For example, my pal was pulled up, and he WAS doing 90 in a 60 limit. They said they had to do 140 to catch up, which meant he was doing 110 !!! (eh?? how did they work that out?)
They never took it to court, but have not told him it's been dropped - and this is 2 years later.
So when they say "5 kids doing 90", think of it more like "5 kids doing 70". Bad, but never as bad as they say. It's got to be more macho to put on the report card, and in the press, that the brave Panda car driver apprehended some kids at HIGH speed !!
This ain't a p**s take of you coppers, just an observation on human nature, and the need to exagerate. It also helps when convicting them, huh?
rgds.
QUITE RIGHT M8 remember a m8 get done for a chase
aparently he went throw 3 sets of red lights.
we never did figger out where the invisable red lights were.
Or the time he got done for crashing in to a cop.
I watched them drive right in the the back of the car he was in when he desided to stop and call it a day.
they wany going to report that he stoped and they crashed in to the back of him.
apparent acroding to them he tryed to drive backwards past the to getaway ,how he was going to manage that and to two other marked cars behind that one o a single trak lane.
your guess is as good as mine.
>> Edited by outlaw on Friday 31st May 07:59
quote:
Like John, I've been involved in many pursuits and have seen what happens when they go wrong. Yes Outlaw Panda drivers are not as well trained as Response / Traffic Officers and, hand on heart, yes they can get a little to 'into it.'
The thing is though; car thieves drive like idiots everywhere. The reason they're spotted is because a member of the public calls us reporting erratic driving or an officer sees a car driving like mad. From personal experience, I have got behind two stolen vehicles having seen the registration plate and not because of the manner of their driving, the rest vice versa.
I've also seen a lot of accidents as a result of their driving, including two fatals. I think its unreasonable to blame the police for the way in which car thieves drive although I accept my view is tainted.
Regarding punishment; that is tough, perhaps prison doesn't rehabilitate, but it does keep other road users safe.
Regards
Rob
most of em, not the smart ones done it for years plus other things
retired now have been for years.
admitadly alot do drive like total twats but you only ushally see them m8,
the real car thieves may well be parked next to you without you even noticeing m8.
remember someone nicking one 2 parking spaces away from a traffic car once. agood few years back now
and yes they were sitting in it at the time.
It was amussing too watch at the time.
another time I know someone parking up with a very nice nicked one and a freindly TO Coming over to have a chat and admiring the motor.
sufice too say one of the passangers needed some new underware. he want as cool as the others.
simple point is the kids cant keep there cool
and panic and they tend to drive like twat but when chaseed lost it compleatly.
better too pick em up later if you ask me, most of them are well known anyway
>> Edited by outlaw on Friday 31st May 09:12
May I add my thoughts here?
Are we as parents maybe not to blame for the so called "scroates" we so quickly attack in these forums?... If we were a little more interested in what our kids did in their spare time we might see the signs of "scoate" before its too late.
A few questions to measure our own input into "scoatville"
1) How many of us have taught our own kids to drive, safely or had them taught safely
2) Do you honestly believe that an intense driving coarse is the answer? I dont believe these coarses could ever replace "many years" of practice.
3)How many years has it taken YOU to learn all the lessons you are so quick to brandish around here.
I reckon, if we as parents paid a little more interested to our kids welfare and well being it may change what they become as adults, I've heard so many of you say "grow up" ... I believe, and if the truth be told, its a case of us needing to bring them up right !!!
Its a known fact that kids do idiotic daredeveil antics (Including Car theft, Housbreaking, rape ... ) "in search of attention", Is it ours attention they seek and do we have the power to change the future "scroates"?
Ok, I'll pi** off. BUT think about it!
Are we as parents maybe not to blame for the so called "scroates" we so quickly attack in these forums?... If we were a little more interested in what our kids did in their spare time we might see the signs of "scoate" before its too late.
A few questions to measure our own input into "scoatville"
1) How many of us have taught our own kids to drive, safely or had them taught safely
2) Do you honestly believe that an intense driving coarse is the answer? I dont believe these coarses could ever replace "many years" of practice.
3)How many years has it taken YOU to learn all the lessons you are so quick to brandish around here.
I reckon, if we as parents paid a little more interested to our kids welfare and well being it may change what they become as adults, I've heard so many of you say "grow up" ... I believe, and if the truth be told, its a case of us needing to bring them up right !!!
Its a known fact that kids do idiotic daredeveil antics (Including Car theft, Housbreaking, rape ... ) "in search of attention", Is it ours attention they seek and do we have the power to change the future "scroates"?
Ok, I'll pi** off. BUT think about it!
I reckon, if we as parents paid a little more interested to our kids welfare and well being it may change what they become as adults, I've heard so many of you say "grow up" ... I believe, and if the truth be told, its a case of us needing to bring them up right !!!
Spot on. At last someone sends a post that doesn't scream 'Its not fair', 'I dont like it', 'It shouln't apply to me', etc...
Very interseting book called 'BRINGING UP BOYS' by
Stephen Biddulph. The above post hits it on the head.
Very relavant to this whole site which is predominantly male.
Waits again for the shooting down in flames
good points..but I dont have kids...so "'Its not fair', 'I dont like it', 'It shouln't apply to me'" 
funnily enough the very point Eminem made on most of his last album.....parents need to be kicked a lot...but then look at what happend when Blair made a suggestion that parents should be held responsible for their brats actions?
and personally it still amazes me that it can be legal for a non expert person to teach someone to drive...yet not make a judgement on whether or not to do 80mph....
funnily enough the very point Eminem made on most of his last album.....parents need to be kicked a lot...but then look at what happend when Blair made a suggestion that parents should be held responsible for their brats actions?
and personally it still amazes me that it can be legal for a non expert person to teach someone to drive...yet not make a judgement on whether or not to do 80mph....
quote:
On a personal note he should have got 10 years, I have been involved in many similar incidents, one with fatal consequences.The little scroates don't give a toss for anyone, they simply play up to the solicitors, probation service and magistrates/judges, the majority of whom fall for it. Next chance they get they are out doing it again, at least prison has a 100% sucess rate, none have managed to re-offend whilst inside. Anyone who gets involved in that type of pursuit may as well walk down the same street with a shot gun firing it at the public. The sentences handed out to such offenders rarely, if ever reflects the danger they create, I can certainly quote at least 4 such offenders who have received paltry sentences only to be released and subsequently kill an innocent person whilst behind the wheel of a car,
Having recently witnessed a chase I sympathise with john robson, I know he's a cop but he has a realistic view point of most things posted on this forum. I love to drive fast but believe I am aware of the conequences of an error. I apply advanced driver techniques to the road and reserve track technique for the track. These cretins have none of this, they just blag about our towns and countryside without regard for others. Often in a stolen car that was someones pride and joy. They deserve everything that comes there way and more. I concede that sometimes they manage to kill or maime a passenger who probably had no idea what they were getting into, thats sad.
>> Edited by ultimajohn on Thursday 6th June 21:52
quote:
I reckon, if we as parents paid a little more interested to our kids welfare and well being it may change what they become as adults, I've heard so many of you say "grow up" ... I believe, and if the truth be told, its a case of us needing to bring them up right !!!
Thats true for the decent people on this plant, the people on this site are all decent folk who want a better standard of life. What we all need to accept is that the scroates of this world couldn't give a toss. they live like animals, houses with that mucky filthy smell that all Police will know. they have no intention of bettering their lives and neither have their parents. Scroates breed scroates and always will as long as we are happy to give them their twice monthly handout for smack.
I have a theory about that. Tell me if I am wrong but if you look back to the victorian era, the upper and middle classes were in the main those that had large familys and could provide for them. Poor people didnt have so many children survive because of the lack of medical treatment and good general living standards.
Today, however the situation has reversed. it is now the norm that the upper and middle classes ( I dont like to classify people but it is a reality) now generally have small familys of 1 or 2 children because it is very expensive and there is no help from the Govt to those that stay together and try to be responsible families
The other side of the coin is those that care little for anything other than their own gratification on sink estates where it is macho to father as many children as you can by different women who are then supported by the plethora of different support agencies by the rest of society who work hard to maintain a decent life style.
The children that are produced in these environments from the parents 20 minutes of pleasure are then abandonded by them while they go off to the pub or whatever they spend the rest of their lives doing with no thought or care for the offspring they produce.
It is no wonder then that these children learn to accept that it is the norm to rob and cheat, live off the street and any other benefit they can get for nothing. And they also think it is the norm to produce as many heirs to the cause as they can when they get to 15 years of age.
And so on and so on.....
What is really worrying is that when this situation develops to the point where there are more takers than givers it will collapse. Who will pay into the system that sustains them?
Probably a very over simplified view but one that I think desrves some credence!!!
Today, however the situation has reversed. it is now the norm that the upper and middle classes ( I dont like to classify people but it is a reality) now generally have small familys of 1 or 2 children because it is very expensive and there is no help from the Govt to those that stay together and try to be responsible families
The other side of the coin is those that care little for anything other than their own gratification on sink estates where it is macho to father as many children as you can by different women who are then supported by the plethora of different support agencies by the rest of society who work hard to maintain a decent life style.
The children that are produced in these environments from the parents 20 minutes of pleasure are then abandonded by them while they go off to the pub or whatever they spend the rest of their lives doing with no thought or care for the offspring they produce.
It is no wonder then that these children learn to accept that it is the norm to rob and cheat, live off the street and any other benefit they can get for nothing. And they also think it is the norm to produce as many heirs to the cause as they can when they get to 15 years of age.
And so on and so on.....
What is really worrying is that when this situation develops to the point where there are more takers than givers it will collapse. Who will pay into the system that sustains them?
Probably a very over simplified view but one that I think desrves some credence!!!
quote:This is more like it.. and this wouldn't stop 'em working on the chain gang like severed limbs would.. much better value in the short and long term...
Cutting off one or two other bits might help solve the problem longer term...
I suddenly have an urge to write a business case..
quote:
The children that are produced in these environments from the parents 20 minutes of pleasure are then abandonded by them while they go off to the pub or whatever they spend the rest of their lives doing with no thought or care for the offspring they produce.
It is no wonder then that these children learn to accept that it is the norm to rob and cheat, live off the street and any other benefit they can get for nothing. And they also think it is the norm to produce as many heirs to the cause as they can when they get to 15 years of age.
And so on and so on.....
What is really worrying is that when this situation develops to the point where there are more takers than givers it will collapse. Who will pay into the system that sustains them?
Probably a very over simplified view but one that I think desrves some credence!!!
Madcop, Your spot on there it may be the beer talking from Englands top win (COME ON E N G L A N D ) but the more children you father the more money those nice people in the government give you. From my days in the 'job' families of 8 of more children wasn't uncommon. the council even bought one family a large detached 6 bedroomed house with a live in social worker.
And I wonder who was paying for all that!!!!!!!
I would like to know from others with more knowledge than me how much the "tagging" system cost to implement per offender, and also does the system work?
In my view young offenders who commit street crime repeatedly should be monitored. In many examples the police are powerless to stop the kids going back onto the streets and just reoffending again and again (not a dig at the police but rather the system they work within). By placing tags onto the repeat offenders the police could track their movements and enforce cerfews without expending valuable police time knocking on all the kids doors. Furthermore, the tags work 24/7 and therefore an offender can not leave their residence unmonitored unlike just waiting for a visit from the police then leaving a few minutes later.
In my view young offenders who commit street crime repeatedly should be monitored. In many examples the police are powerless to stop the kids going back onto the streets and just reoffending again and again (not a dig at the police but rather the system they work within). By placing tags onto the repeat offenders the police could track their movements and enforce cerfews without expending valuable police time knocking on all the kids doors. Furthermore, the tags work 24/7 and therefore an offender can not leave their residence unmonitored unlike just waiting for a visit from the police then leaving a few minutes later.
I think the tagging system is a good idea. I also know several parents that believe like I do that the age of responsibility should be lowered (some say as low as 6). I watched a program on the Bullring the other week and the police woman knew the thieving b@st@rds but couldn't do anything except take the stolen goods off them because they were less than 12.
I feel (as do my family friends) that it should be 1st offence locked in single cell for few hours, drag parents in give official warning. Second offense, week in solitary. To a kid this would be scary enough and IMO would stop half of 'em evoving into rapists, murderers, car theirves, and burgulars.
Madcop you're absolutley right BTW, as teacher we would see a clan come through and all were "trainee crims".
I feel (as do my family friends) that it should be 1st offence locked in single cell for few hours, drag parents in give official warning. Second offense, week in solitary. To a kid this would be scary enough and IMO would stop half of 'em evoving into rapists, murderers, car theirves, and burgulars.
Madcop you're absolutley right BTW, as teacher we would see a clan come through and all were "trainee crims".
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