Norfolk Police claim sports exhausts are illegal?

[Jonleeper]

speedking31 said:

rscott said:

BMW will sell an exhaust which makes my car break the law by providing 'an even more powerful, sporty sound'.

But an even more powerful, sporty sound does not necessarily have to be louder.

But this is the crux of the problem. You cannot tell without measuring. Listening is subjective and two different people will have different opinions / hearing standards / etc. So, unless Norfolk Police are now going to get their hearing calibrated with their speedo's, we have another opportunity for a policemen to become annoyed by something and issue punishment without any proven infringement of the actual law.

[valais]

Interesting. I thought the iphone would be poor as a db meter.

Googling about, quite a few blogs saying it is actually pretty good up to 100db... not comparable to a sound meter, but not bad.

[Hooli]

carinaman said:

It reminds me of this:

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=14&...


I am troubled by needlessly loud exhausts that would be less of an issue if the drivers and users used some throttle restraint but some seem intent on ramming their dBA down your throat and rubbing your nose in it but I think they should be tested and dealt with rather that go on what an officer thinks is too loud.

Look at the app Clarkson used when testing the three Supercars around that newly built, uninhabited Spanish town. That app may be inaccurate and may be dependent on whatever smart phone it's used on, but would someone be able to come up with a small easily used noise meter for a big order from all of the police forces for several thousand units?

Look at foodie's Dashcam showing 52MPH when he's really only doing 40. That GPS reading could be tested so could other off the shelf noise meter apps. be tested for accuracy? Weren't the three supercars in Spain by Clarkson on Top Gear all at around 103dBA which would be consistent with EU noise regulations and therefore the accuracy of that app on his phone?

That thread about kids riding a Mini Moto and the OP being in two minds about it, in my experience kids and adults using public access green areas to mess around on would be less of an issue if the motorcycles were more effectively silenced. I think in some cases if it wasn't for the din their motorcycles were kicking out nobody would know they were there.


It's a Top Gear like challenge for some PH friendly/tolerant BiB? Get your box of noise testing kit and test it against the noise meter apps for smart phones? For all I know a motoring enthusiast magazine or website may have already done such a comparison test? The noise meter kit BiB may have may be more accurate and more expensive but is it like the Lexus LFA tests mentioning and showing the Nissan GTR? The GTR is much cheaper but stats wise isn't far off of an LFA.

Edited by carinaman on Wednesday 24th July 13:45

Didn't TG do a test like that under some palace in Eastern Europe a few years ago as well?

[carinaman]

It may be down to the bandwidth of the microphone. Most devices drop off in performance when their limits are reached but look at home computer hobbysists that overclock processors and drill holes in walls so they can have a water cooled processor using water from a tank buried in the ground outside. Look at how brake linings are usually OK until you do a track day or go down the Stelvio Pass.

[carinaman]

Hooli said:

Didn't TG do a test like that under some palace in Eastern Europe a few years ago as well?

Yes, in the tunnels in the basement of Nicolae Ceaușescu's palace.

Him and his cronies sound a delightful bunch:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2012/jun/17/buryin...

A bit in that review of that book mentions covering windows when getting the typewriter out. It reminds me of a point made in this programme about drawing the curtains to your front room:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b03757ck

Someone on that programme reckon Google are holding back their Glass spectacles/visor and that supposedly it'll just be a few years before there could be a camera so tiny it could be mounted in a contact lens.


Surely the laws need to be used with specifications and data, not mere opinions?

Edited by carinaman on Wednesday 24th July 14:29

[HD Adam]

What if your vehicle doesn't have Type Approval?

I had an SVA on my import truck. What's the deal there?

[streaky]

Jonleeper said:

richie99 said:

I have no particularly strong feeling one way or another but I think they do know what they are referring to and they almost certainly right - just no one has ever bothered to enforce it.

Norfolk Police said:

Big bore and sports exhaust systems are usually fitted to increase the sound emitted and this contravenes the Type Approval of the vehicle, which is an offence. There is no requirement for police to measure the sound level from the exhaust system, it only requires an opinion that the system is not standard and that it is noisier than a normal vehicle of the same specification.

So you are happy that the Law states it is an offence to fit an exhaust with the intention of increasing the sound but Norfolk Police don't think it's necessary to test this at all? The opinion of a policeman is all that is necessary. We are straying further and further into MegaCity 1. What's next "I think your car is too old"? "I think your car is the wrong colour"? "I think your car is too expensive for you"?[/quote]

Oh, we're there already. And not just cars, a cyclist was stopped because he was rising an expensive cycle but wasn't wearing Lycra.

Streaky

Edited by streaky on Wednesday 24th July 20:53

[Russ T Bolt]

rscott said:

You're seriously saying a BMW dealer would be happy to sell me a new car and install this exhaust upgrade, thereby rendering the car illegal to use on British roads?

Land Rover did/do. The front tinted windows on the RRS are/were illegal. Been a few on those Police,Camera, Action type programmes where the owner was given the choice of removing the tint or getting a ticket. In every case it had been factory ordered.

[Fastpedeller]

What is going on with the UK? Not type approved shouldn't be an issue as long as nobody suffers injury, the noise level are (measured) to be within the permitted and the emission levels similarly. We are indeed getting crazy - what next, My (Kit) car was subject to SVA, and I've changed the wipr blades to Bosch flat ones (which incidentally are far superior performance) so if they aren't type approved is that a problem even though i can see better in the rain? Big Brother is here folks only 29 years later than predicted.

[herewego]

matchmaker said:

I fitted an - expensive - sports exhaust system to my car. To liberate more power. It may be louder than standard - if it is it's not noticeable. So if I travel through Norfolk (which I have no intention of doing - it's too flat and I like my countryside to be like my women - curvy) the plod can stop me and charge me if they think my car is louder than standard? How will they tell - will they be carrying an i-pod loaded with "standard" exhaust noise for every car on the road today?

wkers.

For a couple of decades all cars have had to comply with EU noise limits. There may be a couple of dB variation for diesel versus petrol, otherwise it's the same for all cars.

[PV7998]

From Norfolk's website................

"The vast majority of large or big bore exhausts are illegal for use on public roads. The fact they may have passed an MOT test is irrelevant as this only checks for exhaust gasses and emission legislation compliance.
Big bore and sports exhaust systems are usually fitted to increase the sound emitted and this contravenes the Type Approval of the vehicle, which is an offence. There is no requirement for police to measure the sound level from the exhaust system, it only requires an opinion that the system is not standard and that it is noisier than a normal vehicle of the same specification.
It is not an offence to sell these exhaust systems, but it is an offence to fit one to your vehicle and drive it on a public road. Motorists who do so would be reported to court and may face a fine and court costs"

This appears to be backed up by legislation going back to 1986.....

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1986/1078/regul...

All in all, not very promising, and even less promising for the manufacturers of non standard exhausts.

[Frik]

OEM exhaust is type approved so irrelevant. Everything else is a matter of opinion.

[valais]

" There is no requirement for police to measure the sound level from the exhaust system, it only requires an opinion that the system is not standard and that it is noisier than a normal vehicle of the same specification."

What a terrible bit of law, if true.

Though as I highlighted earlier, MonkeyBoy1 had a different experience in Norfolk.

I'm all for the police both exercising discretion whilst enforcing the law, but this seem ambiguous, when the practice seems to contradict the bumf...

[V8 Fettler]

I thought type approval for noise involved a drive-by test?

[mcford]

valais said:

" There is no requirement to measure the sound level from the exhaust system, it only requires an opinion that the system is not standard and that it is noisier than a normal vehicle of the same specification."

That's what should be done on the MOT test, so they've got that bit wrong on their web site.

[valais]

mcford said:

That's what should be done on the MOT test, so they've got that bit wrong on their web site.

Emissions are measured in a UK MoT but not noise level?

My point was that the police already have ways of measuring exhaust noise, as proven by MonkeyBoy1s thread - in Norfolk.

My guess - ill informed press office material that no one reviewed properrly.

[Nigel_O]

mcford said:

That's what should be done on the MOT test, so they've got that bit wrong on their web site.

My son's Mk1 Golf 1.3 failed an MOT on "excessive noise", despite it only having a non-standard tailpipe fitted. When we asked the MOT tester what sound level it had produced and what it should be, he couldn't answer (much as I suspect that Norfolk Plod wouldn't be able to). I asked the tester when he last tested a 1983 Mk1 Golf 1.3 - he couldn't remember, at which point I suggested that he may not be aware of how noisy they're supposed to be (they're very mechanically noisy, as well as from the exhaust)

He refused to reconsider, so we took it somewhere else, where it passed straight away. It has since passed a couple more without issue. Over-zealous tester, methinks, but it doesn't bode well if the Police have the same powers. Makes me wonder how long I'll last with the 3" stainless system on my Fiat Coupe.

[valais]

Nigel_O said:

My son's Mk1 Golf 1.3 failed an MOT on "excessive noise", despite it only having a non-standard tailpipe fitted. When we asked the MOT tester what sound level it had produced and what it should be, he couldn't answer (much as I suspect that Norfolk Plod wouldn't be able to). I asked the tester when he last tested a 1983 Mk1 Golf 1.3 - he couldn't remember, at which point I suggested that he may not be aware of how noisy they're supposed to be (they're very mechanically noisy, as well as from the exhaust)

He refused to reconsider, so we took it somewhere else, where it passed straight away. It has since passed a couple more without issue. Over-zealous tester, methinks, but it doesn't bode well if the Police have the same powers. Makes me wonder how long I'll last with the 3" stainless system on my Fiat Coupe.

As an aside - I always try to use council MOT stations, on the grounds that they don't offer other services and are more impartial. Generally they have been very good.

[fangio]

(they're very mechanically noisy, as well as from the exhaust)


Summat wrong there, then!

[clarkey540i]

valais said:

Nigel_O said:

My son's Mk1 Golf 1.3 failed an MOT on "excessive noise", despite it only having a non-standard tailpipe fitted. When we asked the MOT tester what sound level it had produced and what it should be, he couldn't answer (much as I suspect that Norfolk Plod wouldn't be able to). I asked the tester when he last tested a 1983 Mk1 Golf 1.3 - he couldn't remember, at which point I suggested that he may not be aware of how noisy they're supposed to be (they're very mechanically noisy, as well as from the exhaust)

He refused to reconsider, so we took it somewhere else, where it passed straight away. It has since passed a couple more without issue. Over-zealous tester, methinks, but it doesn't bode well if the Police have the same powers. Makes me wonder how long I'll last with the 3" stainless system on my Fiat Coupe.

As an aside - I always try to use council MOT stations, on the grounds that they don't offer other services and are more impartial. Generally they have been very good.

I usually use main dealer ones for a different make of car on the basis that they can't try to sell me anything. I take the 540 to Ford dealerships usually, and the Ka to BMW ones.