Police Memorial day
Discussion
http://www.hmic.gov.uk/about-us/who-we-are/previou...
Not police or Civil Servants.
I don't know how a Royal Warrant compares to the powers vested in Constables when they take the oath and get their warrant cards?
I'm not sure I can get upset about it. Someone wearing a uniform to an event may seem insensitive to some, but could it seem to be a bit precious given, Plebgate, Tomlinson, Hillsborough, the stuff to come out about how the Lawrence family were staked out and dirt was sought on Dwayne Brooks?
It's a bit rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic?
Criminal gangs in Manchester received some serious attention after PCs Bone and Hughes were killed? Perhaps if it had been done before? How many more serious and violent nominals were there than those involved in those gangs? Was Duggan linked to any of those organised criminals in Manchester?
Not police or Civil Servants.
I don't know how a Royal Warrant compares to the powers vested in Constables when they take the oath and get their warrant cards?
I'm not sure I can get upset about it. Someone wearing a uniform to an event may seem insensitive to some, but could it seem to be a bit precious given, Plebgate, Tomlinson, Hillsborough, the stuff to come out about how the Lawrence family were staked out and dirt was sought on Dwayne Brooks?
It's a bit rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic?
Criminal gangs in Manchester received some serious attention after PCs Bone and Hughes were killed? Perhaps if it had been done before? How many more serious and violent nominals were there than those involved in those gangs? Was Duggan linked to any of those organised criminals in Manchester?
Edited by carinaman on Tuesday 1st October 01:43
I'm yet to see anyone set this out and I'd be interested to see it because my from my experience of working with Tom in his rail regulator days is that, whilst he isn't a slick PR operator and doesn't care about being abrasive, he is usually right in his planned course of action.
BTW, I fully agree that if no uniform is prescribed for his role, then making one up crosses the line betweem ill-judged and distasteful
BTW, I fully agree that if no uniform is prescribed for his role, then making one up crosses the line betweem ill-judged and distasteful
I think that the Police Memorial Day is an opportunity for the police family to pay tribute to those officers who have lost their lives serving the public. It means a great deal to families and relatives, and is an opportunity to show solidarity with those who have suffered.
All previous HMI's have been serving high ranking officers and are therefore part of the family. In short, they get it.
Winsor is a civil servant who has done more to reduce morale in the police than anyone since Sheehy. For him to wear an ill fitting and unpressed parody of a Police uniform at such an event is an appalling lapse in judgement and taste in my view, and distracts from the purpose of the event.
He could take a lesson in how to conduct himself from Prince Charles, who is always impeccably and appropriately turned out.
I think I am correct in saying that officers injured in the line of duty face a much more uncertain future thanks to Mr Winsor. For that reason alone he should have stayed well away, or worn a suit.
All previous HMI's have been serving high ranking officers and are therefore part of the family. In short, they get it.
Winsor is a civil servant who has done more to reduce morale in the police than anyone since Sheehy. For him to wear an ill fitting and unpressed parody of a Police uniform at such an event is an appalling lapse in judgement and taste in my view, and distracts from the purpose of the event.
He could take a lesson in how to conduct himself from Prince Charles, who is always impeccably and appropriately turned out.
I think I am correct in saying that officers injured in the line of duty face a much more uncertain future thanks to Mr Winsor. For that reason alone he should have stayed well away, or worn a suit.
It is as if there are multiple voices all fighting for attention. I'm sure each one has a coherent message, but together... not quite so. Only people that have been police officers can 'get it'?
But not all police officers are the same are they?
Red 4 has posted here 'don't believe the hype' when it comes to the police family. I was really impressed with that Special from Essex that posted here that he broke his leg on duty and the ACC had called him to check he was OK, while other posters here were saying that that wouldn't happen in their force.
Look at the fall out of Hillsborough, there was some pundit on Radio 4 saying that the police involved in trying to deny, cover up what was shown for all to see on the BBC TV footage of what happened there weren't intrinsically evil, but may have done it to protect the brand, the image of the police.
Look at the nonsense that was the cover up and illegality that we've seen following the shove on Tomlinson at the G20 protests and the student politics smear and frame up of Andrew MITCHELL.
The police come across like some nominal on the grass verge that's been pulled over as it seems they're driving uninsured, they're 3 minutes away from asking if they can get their shopping from the boot before their car gets taken away on the back of a truck.
'It could have been a protestor dressed up like a police officer that shoved Tomlinson to the ground.'
It's 2013, the chances of people not noticing that police are behaving like clowns and crooks are remote.
Winsor wasn't involved with trying milk MITCHELL uttering something under his breath, or saying 'there's no CCTV' after Tomlinson was pushed to the ground. Was Winsor involved with the IPCC tellling Channel 4 News they couldn't show the footage they'd got of the incident? How does the IPCC actions there compare to Alastair Campbell having a little paddy live on Channel 4 News as they'd called BS on the Dodgy Dossier?
And how many people were killed by car bombs in Iraq yesterday?
So you've got the IPCC saying 'you can't show that footage' and Alastair Campbell acting like a tired and teasy twsiter that's had too many E numbers for having the Dodgy Dossier doubted? So the police are like politicians then? Just like politicians that want it all their own way, and can't cope with having their version of the 'truth' queried?
The truth doesn't reside in pocket notebooks in uniforms. Bent, lazy or unthinking police can carry on it making it up as they go along, or trying to rewrite history, but you know how it is, tell one porkie and you risk having to tell another ten fibs to keep that first porkie smelling real. And I'm not even a concerned constituent from Camden.
Because the police only ever make it up as they go along to catch 'wrong uns' that deserve it don't they?
Perhaps there are several benefits to having the HMIC headed by a 'clean skin' and not a former police officer that's gone 'native'?
It's all the fault of Winsor? I think you'd be better off blaming leaves on the line.
After Winsor perhaps we should let Alastair Campbell have a go at it? I think he may look quite good in a peaked cap, a bit like a Royal Navy officer. A safe pair of hands on the tiller keeping the waves safe for the nation and HRH.
But not all police officers are the same are they?
Red 4 has posted here 'don't believe the hype' when it comes to the police family. I was really impressed with that Special from Essex that posted here that he broke his leg on duty and the ACC had called him to check he was OK, while other posters here were saying that that wouldn't happen in their force.
Look at the fall out of Hillsborough, there was some pundit on Radio 4 saying that the police involved in trying to deny, cover up what was shown for all to see on the BBC TV footage of what happened there weren't intrinsically evil, but may have done it to protect the brand, the image of the police.
Look at the nonsense that was the cover up and illegality that we've seen following the shove on Tomlinson at the G20 protests and the student politics smear and frame up of Andrew MITCHELL.
The police come across like some nominal on the grass verge that's been pulled over as it seems they're driving uninsured, they're 3 minutes away from asking if they can get their shopping from the boot before their car gets taken away on the back of a truck.
'It could have been a protestor dressed up like a police officer that shoved Tomlinson to the ground.'
It's 2013, the chances of people not noticing that police are behaving like clowns and crooks are remote.
Winsor wasn't involved with trying milk MITCHELL uttering something under his breath, or saying 'there's no CCTV' after Tomlinson was pushed to the ground. Was Winsor involved with the IPCC tellling Channel 4 News they couldn't show the footage they'd got of the incident? How does the IPCC actions there compare to Alastair Campbell having a little paddy live on Channel 4 News as they'd called BS on the Dodgy Dossier?
And how many people were killed by car bombs in Iraq yesterday?
So you've got the IPCC saying 'you can't show that footage' and Alastair Campbell acting like a tired and teasy twsiter that's had too many E numbers for having the Dodgy Dossier doubted? So the police are like politicians then? Just like politicians that want it all their own way, and can't cope with having their version of the 'truth' queried?
The truth doesn't reside in pocket notebooks in uniforms. Bent, lazy or unthinking police can carry on it making it up as they go along, or trying to rewrite history, but you know how it is, tell one porkie and you risk having to tell another ten fibs to keep that first porkie smelling real. And I'm not even a concerned constituent from Camden.
Because the police only ever make it up as they go along to catch 'wrong uns' that deserve it don't they?
Perhaps there are several benefits to having the HMIC headed by a 'clean skin' and not a former police officer that's gone 'native'?
It's all the fault of Winsor? I think you'd be better off blaming leaves on the line.
After Winsor perhaps we should let Alastair Campbell have a go at it? I think he may look quite good in a peaked cap, a bit like a Royal Navy officer. A safe pair of hands on the tiller keeping the waves safe for the nation and HRH.
Edited by carinaman on Tuesday 1st October 09:54
La Liga said:
laugh: It is as if there are multiple voices all fighting for attention. I'm sure each one has a coherent message, but together... not quite so.
I was going to splash some cash on a C5 S6 that looked a bit of a bargain in the classifieds so I could garner much attention in General Gassing, but it seems it's been sold. A bit big for my needs though really, a bit too obvious.But then I'd have to buy a Go-Pro just to incriminate myself.
I've just got leaves on the brain, but it is autumn and they are nice colours. Even prettier than a braid laden uniform.
Edited by carinaman on Tuesday 1st October 09:51
ClaphamGT3 said:
But, if not him, then who? That paragon of professionalism and respect Hogan-Howe?
An HMI who has actually served?You can't have it both ways. If you appoint an HMCIC who has never been a police officer for political reasons, you cannot expect them to represent those of us who have. It's as simple as that really.
Come on mate, you need to go on your diversity refresher. 'Nutter'? after Alastair Campbell creeping out from under some stone to comment on Halloween costumes being sold by leading supermarkets and online retailers.
'Nutter'? Tsk.
'Oi Campbell, get out from underneath that rock. That's Saddam's hiding place!'
'Nutter'? Tsk.
'Oi Campbell, get out from underneath that rock. That's Saddam's hiding place!'
Isn't that part of the problem? The ones getting bubble sorted to the top are the ones with the least dirt and blots in their copy books.
So it's in their own interests to hide, bury, sidestep failures or criminality as any dirt or mistakes may impact on their route to the top job and the gong. Not forgetting the pension.
It's no different from getting your missus to take your speeding points (other people are available to donate speeding points to, the term wife can be interchanged with 'partner').
It's fancy dress snakes and ladders.
So it's in their own interests to hide, bury, sidestep failures or criminality as any dirt or mistakes may impact on their route to the top job and the gong. Not forgetting the pension.
It's no different from getting your missus to take your speeding points (other people are available to donate speeding points to, the term wife can be interchanged with 'partner').
It's fancy dress snakes and ladders.
Edited by carinaman on Tuesday 1st October 10:17
ClaphamGT3 said:
But who would that serving/former serving officer figurehead be?
I can't think of a long list of candidates but it would be interesting to know who you chaps think are the exemplars of the force
Steve Otter QPM ?I can't think of a long list of candidates but it would be interesting to know who you chaps think are the exemplars of the force
Former Chief Constable, served in the Met in every rank from PC to Commander. Currently an HMI.
I don't think Otter's time in the South West overlaps with this:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2419958/Po...
But then perhaps senior officers are spared any whiff of suspicion when you have Professional Standards saying stuff like 'We followed the rules........
Supposedly some 'policy book' on why the investigating team didn't follow all of the leads and the opportunities to prosecute other child sex abusers has been 'lost'.
Housekeeping? Back ups? Nobody thought of taking a copy of the paperwork that explains their decision making process and decisions? It's all pretty basic stuff. That was the noughties, not the 1980s.
Who knows how much that child abuse ring in the South West compares to tea and biscuits at Jimmy Savile's penthouse flat?
Will the new police college that teaches ethics help erode, reduce the 'We were following procedures' jobsworth mentality?
Is it always ethical to play the 'we were just following procedures' card?
Yes, I am aware of that detective that sounds to be a decent chap found the body in Glos. after breaking the rules on questioning suspects, but wouldn't that knowledge have come out later if the rules had been followed? I don't buy the 24 time is precious, we must waterboard people to save innocents lives line.
It's like police cars ending up on their roofs in country lanes getting to a body. A body and crime scene is worth risking upending a police car to protect? Is it proportionate? Is it worth risking killing another on the roads to get to a crime scene?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2419958/Po...
But then perhaps senior officers are spared any whiff of suspicion when you have Professional Standards saying stuff like 'We followed the rules........
Supposedly some 'policy book' on why the investigating team didn't follow all of the leads and the opportunities to prosecute other child sex abusers has been 'lost'.
Housekeeping? Back ups? Nobody thought of taking a copy of the paperwork that explains their decision making process and decisions? It's all pretty basic stuff. That was the noughties, not the 1980s.
Who knows how much that child abuse ring in the South West compares to tea and biscuits at Jimmy Savile's penthouse flat?
Will the new police college that teaches ethics help erode, reduce the 'We were following procedures' jobsworth mentality?
Is it always ethical to play the 'we were just following procedures' card?
Yes, I am aware of that detective that sounds to be a decent chap found the body in Glos. after breaking the rules on questioning suspects, but wouldn't that knowledge have come out later if the rules had been followed? I don't buy the 24 time is precious, we must waterboard people to save innocents lives line.
It's like police cars ending up on their roofs in country lanes getting to a body. A body and crime scene is worth risking upending a police car to protect? Is it proportionate? Is it worth risking killing another on the roads to get to a crime scene?
Edited by carinaman on Tuesday 1st October 11:06
What the hell are you on ?
This discussion is about honouring officers who gave their lives. Both in peacetime and war. It is not an excuse to air your feeble minded ramblings. There are plenty of more appropriate avenues open for you to do that.
If you haven't got anything sensible to contribute can I suggest that, with all due respect, you just shut the f
k up.
Thank You.
This discussion is about honouring officers who gave their lives. Both in peacetime and war. It is not an excuse to air your feeble minded ramblings. There are plenty of more appropriate avenues open for you to do that.
If you haven't got anything sensible to contribute can I suggest that, with all due respect, you just shut the f
k up.Thank You.
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