"Offer" of training.

[jasandjules]

Why not do the training, AND take action against the council? If the roads were not in good repair (and ideally they had been warned by other crashes etc..) then you could recover the costs of the course from them, assuming it was a Highways Agency road that is...

[Mad Moggie]

matchless said:

Wildcat, what is this "Coast" you keep mentioning Please?

www.safespeed.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3774&highlight=coast


Concentration

- relaxed concentration on road ahead - watching the plot

Observation

- Observing everything - using mirrors, indicators, noting queues at bus stops, feet beneath parked cars, reflections in shop window at a blind corner, smells and sounds

Anticipation

Based on all observation - assess to hazard potential and plan accordingly -by allowing

Space

- as in adjusting speed, distance, position etc

and

Time

as in allowing time to react, maintaining a two second rule and so on.


Basically - whole of Road Craft/Motor Cycle Craft and Cycle Craft condensed into one little word

[vonhosen]

7db said:

Tell them to shove it where the sun don't shine and take the prosecution.

Got to agree. Maintain your integrity & don't play ball with the scoundrels.
Otherwise you are just giving support to the system.

[vonhosen]

fid said:

Go to court and make them prove that you're guilty first. If they're able to, accept the offer of training, if not, you lose nothing

You don't get the offer of DIS if you go to court. It's offered by the Polioce instead of prosecution, once you elect to go to court the offer is no longer available.

[7db]

vonhosen said:

7db said:

Tell them to shove it where the sun don't shine and take the prosecution.

Got to agree. Maintain your integrity & don't play ball with the scoundrels.
Otherwise you are just giving support to the system.

And don't forget that you have your part to play in blocking up the Courts system to bring on the revolution, comrade.

Oh hang on a tick - they just sat at weekends during the PollTax uprising and processed them all anyway...

[BliarOut]

vonhosen said:

7db said:

Tell them to shove it where the sun don't shine and take the prosecution.

Got to agree. Maintain your integrity & don't play ball with the scoundrels.
Otherwise you are just giving support to the system.

I bloody well knew you would pop in sooner or later

Although if you have any experience of these schemes I would be interested to hear it.

[7db]

BliarOut said:

vonhosen said:

7db said:

Tell them to shove it where the sun don't shine and take the prosecution.

Got to agree. Maintain your integrity & don't play ball with the scoundrels.
Otherwise you are just giving support to the system.

I bloody well knew you would pop in sooner or later

Although if you have any experience of these schemes I would be interested to hear it.

The TVP one was surprisingly good, a subject of their training recently told me. No indoctrination tactics (depending on your level of defining that) and Roadcraft-based thinking. That was for a speeding offence - not sure if it's different for you (is it a S3 careless you're up for?) Which force has made you the offer?

[BliarOut]

7db said:

BliarOut said:

vonhosen said:

7db said:

Tell them to shove it where the sun don't shine and take the prosecution.

Got to agree. Maintain your integrity & don't play ball with the scoundrels.
Otherwise you are just giving support to the system.

I bloody well knew you would pop in sooner or later

Although if you have any experience of these schemes I would be interested to hear it.

The TVP one was surprisingly good, a subject of their training recently told me. No indoctrination tactics (depending on your level of defining that) and Roadcraft-based thinking. That was for a speeding offence - not sure if it's different for you (is it a S3 careless you're up for?) Which force has made you the offer?

Lincolnshire, although I am in Cambs so I would want to transfer if that's the route I take.

I'm not going into great detail on a public site for obvious reasons.

[7db]

BliarOut said:

Lincolnshire, although I am in Cambs so I would want to transfer if that's the route I take.

I'm not going into great detail on a public site for obvious reasons.

Fair enough. I'm not sure about Cambs and whether you can trasfer courses between the two. Lincolnshire HQ has a lovely little skid pan with a couple of old Granadas on that I've had a whizz around on. Very good fun.

[WildCat]

7db said:

BliarOut said:

Lincolnshire, although I am in Cambs so I would want to transfer if that's the route I take.

I'm not going into great detail on a public site for obvious reasons.

Fair enough. I'm not sure about Cambs and whether you can trasfer courses between the two. Lincolnshire HQ has a lovely little skid pan with a couple of old Granadas on that I've had a whizz around on. Very good fun.

I think you have to attend the one offered by the Police Force in question. I do not think you can transfer unless there ist a reciprocal as with Lancs und Staffs Speed Aware Courses which use the same team to teach it as I understand from asking nosy questions from them.

As I understand from when Rooney had to attend one offered after colliding with the woman on the roundabout - press said he was offered as alternative to prosecution und that ist an intense session of advanced teaching. I do not know if this improved Rooney's driving though. I think he broke his foot shortly after completing the course....

[TripleS]

ipsg.glf said:

The 3 E's: Engineering, Education, Enforcement.

The authorities are trying to educate you rather that enforce/prosecute.

Maybe you should consider yourself lucky that you even got the offer. I am sure a charge of DWDCA wouldn't be that nice to have to face.

I would rather some Education came first, so the benefits of that can be with us wherever we go. Then you don't need to spend so much on Engineering. We'll leave the (speed) Enforcement for another day, shall we?

The course ought to be more palatable than a charge of DWDCA etc., but it could still be a bit of a pain having to swallow a load of 'speed kills' rubbish and being unable to challenge anything - which I've heard is how it is on some courses.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

[Stubby Pete]

I had the same choice a while ago, took a "Driver Rehabilitation Course" for a fee that was less than the possible fine and no points instead of 4-9. I felt like you that there was not, as they stated, sufficient evidence to prosecute. I was involved in a head on collision on a bridge almost wide enough for two cars that was blocked by a driver who stopped near my end rather than carrying on through where there would have been room. No prosecution for them but the no win no fee lawyers did not succeed against my Insurers so I guess the CPS wouldn't have either. Still, I took my medicine and did learn (or get reminded of) stuff that I learnt at 18 (over 10 years before).
Whilst I would love to tell you to stick the offer and force them to try and find the evidence to prosecute (which would probably not be forthcoming), the sensible thing to do is to take the course.

[jith]

jasandjules said:

Why not do the training, AND take action against the council? If the roads were not in good repair (and ideally they had been warned by other crashes etc..) then you could recover the costs of the course from them, assuming it was a Highways Agency road that is...

This is the best possible advice: councils are desperately negligent in road maintenance in this country; some of the roads are appalling. I wouldn't hesitate to start an action against them as long as you are reasonably confident you have some evidence.
I would lodge a complaint now and a request for compensation and state that your acceptance of the course is NOT an admission of guilt, simply a convenient method of disposal and the avoidance of prosecution.

[bleesh]

I did one of these last year - day and a half, involving some classroom work and about a total of 6 hours out on the road, with 3 "students" plus the instructor.
As mentioned before it taught about observation and roadcraft, and was actually quite well constructed. The commentary drive is really difficult, but you find yourself actually seeing things that you wouldn't normally.

I modified the way I drive after this, but only managed 19/20 for the highway code questions!!

Part of thw incentive for me was the choice between a day and a half's holiday and paying £150 for the privilege, or 6 points, £1000 fine, and expensive insurance till god knows when.

I took the pragmatic approach, and did the course.

Steve

[BliarOut]

bleesh said:

I did one of these last year - day and a half, involving some classroom work and about a total of 6 hours out on the road, with 3 "students" plus the instructor.
As mentioned before it taught about observation and roadcraft, and was actually quite well constructed. The commentary drive is really difficult, but you find yourself actually seeing things that you wouldn't normally.

I modified the way I drive after this, but only managed 19/20 for the highway code questions!!

Part of thw incentive for me was the choice between a day and a half's holiday and paying £150 for the privilege, or 6 points, £1000 fine, and expensive insurance till god knows when.

I took the pragmatic approach, and did the course.

Steve

Thanks for that Steve, sounds like exactly the same thing I've been offered. It covers much of the stuff I did twenty odd years ago but I'm sure a refresher won't do me any harm. I quite like the idea of a commentary drive and you never know, it may pick up on any bad habits I've developed over the years. Sod the ulcer, I think I'll go for the training.

Did you get the "official warning" and if so, what is it? That's the only thing I'm uncertain of now. I would like to know if it is written and carries any legal weight or is it just a good old fashioned bollocking.

[7db]

BliarOut said:

Did you get the "official warning" and if so, what is it? That's the only thing I'm uncertain of now. I would like to know if it is written and carries any legal weight or is it just a good old fashioned bollocking.

AIUI the official warning is just a note to say that you'll not get the course next time.

[vonhosen]

BliarOut said:

Thanks for that Steve, sounds like exactly the same thing I've been offered. It covers much of the stuff I did twenty odd years ago but I'm sure a refresher won't do me any harm. I quite like the idea of a commentary drive and you never know, it may pick up on any bad habits I've developed over the years. Sod the ulcer, I think I'll go for the training.

Sell out

[WildCat]

vonhosen said:

BliarOut said:

Thanks for that Steve, sounds like exactly the same thing I've been offered. It covers much of the stuff I did twenty odd years ago but I'm sure a refresher won't do me any harm. I quite like the idea of a commentary drive and you never know, it may pick up on any bad habits I've developed over the years. Sod the ulcer, I think I'll go for the training.

Sell out

Ach - but this ist a different thing he ist alleged to have done ....und as he had a prang per the opening post ..BiB und not an automated doo-dah were in charge.

[7db]

vonhosen said:

BliarOut said:

Thanks for that Steve, sounds like exactly the same thing I've been offered. It covers much of the stuff I did twenty odd years ago but I'm sure a refresher won't do me any harm. I quite like the idea of a commentary drive and you never know, it may pick up on any bad habits I've developed over the years. Sod the ulcer, I think I'll go for the training.

Sell out

But he's going to be a victim of more training - surely a good thing.

[vonhosen]

7db said:

vonhosen said:

BliarOut said:

Thanks for that Steve, sounds like exactly the same thing I've been offered. It covers much of the stuff I did twenty odd years ago but I'm sure a refresher won't do me any harm. I quite like the idea of a commentary drive and you never know, it may pick up on any bad habits I've developed over the years. Sod the ulcer, I think I'll go for the training.

Sell out

But he's going to be a victim of more training - surely a good thing.

I was only joking