Discussion
xylophone you may well be a solicitor and may claim to live in the real world but unless you have riden a ZX9R at 160mph and know fully this guys level of ability you are not qualified to condem him so fully. I would even be curious to know have you even ever ridden a hi performance bike and do you know the size of the safe envelope for one of them by experience or just "what you think"??
From the report of the case that I read and in this case it was in yesterdays mail, it should be noted that 1) He wasn't actually caught speeding but was stopped in a "routine check" where the video was removed and viewed. 2) It clearly shows that he slowed to 30mph when entering villages 3) He was a dedicated motorcylist with "undoubted driving skill". What he did in videoing his actions and getting caught undoutable makes him a prat but a criminal deserving a year in jail ????? Not in my opinion. Nothing annoys me more than "motorists" or "car drivers" that condem excess speed on bikes without any relevant experience or knowledge. I can say with both of those that in my opinion 110mmph in an 10 year old XR2 or 130 mph in a year old Mundaino is far more dangerous than 150 plus on a modern superbike. The bike he was on is designed and engineered to be able to do those speeds and more (it should top out at 180 ish) it has the required handling, power and brakes to perform, this rider apparently had the skill but was obviously a bit simple in choosing when and where. For that crime 12 months in jail is an outrage and a very very scarry prescident. I am not sticking up for him and saying that he was in the right or even safe but I am saying, yes ok ban him, yes fine him, and yes teach him a harsh lesson he will learn from. But screw up his life totally ?? Shaft him to a degree that will have an impact on the rest of his life ?? When he hurt no one or even effected no one else by his actions that is fundememtaly wrong.
I will also say that my instant reaction was holy fcuk there but for the grace of god go I !
From the report of the case that I read and in this case it was in yesterdays mail, it should be noted that 1) He wasn't actually caught speeding but was stopped in a "routine check" where the video was removed and viewed. 2) It clearly shows that he slowed to 30mph when entering villages 3) He was a dedicated motorcylist with "undoubted driving skill". What he did in videoing his actions and getting caught undoutable makes him a prat but a criminal deserving a year in jail ????? Not in my opinion. Nothing annoys me more than "motorists" or "car drivers" that condem excess speed on bikes without any relevant experience or knowledge. I can say with both of those that in my opinion 110mmph in an 10 year old XR2 or 130 mph in a year old Mundaino is far more dangerous than 150 plus on a modern superbike. The bike he was on is designed and engineered to be able to do those speeds and more (it should top out at 180 ish) it has the required handling, power and brakes to perform, this rider apparently had the skill but was obviously a bit simple in choosing when and where. For that crime 12 months in jail is an outrage and a very very scarry prescident. I am not sticking up for him and saying that he was in the right or even safe but I am saying, yes ok ban him, yes fine him, and yes teach him a harsh lesson he will learn from. But screw up his life totally ?? Shaft him to a degree that will have an impact on the rest of his life ?? When he hurt no one or even effected no one else by his actions that is fundememtaly wrong.
I will also say that my instant reaction was holy fcuk there but for the grace of god go I !
quote:
How can the police confiscate a video camera, is he then incriminating himself? Was his speedometer calibrated? All seems a bit dodgy to me, though not seeing the video I cant really comment.
Interesting point. I wasn't aware that the Home Office had granted Type Approval to amateur video systems for use as speed enforcement equipment. Still, who knows what goes in their twilight world these days.
Mind you, this echoes of that famous Japanese businessman who sold Ferraris. His promotional video for the F40 featured himself driving an example at speeds up to 320kmh on a highway near Tokyo. Unfortunately a police officer bought a copy and subsequently initiated proceedings.
Then there was a mental french motorcyclist who rode his bike around the périphérique (Lord help us) in excess of 250kmh and videoed the whole event. This was featured on Police Camera Action. Hairy stuff!
Mel, you said exactly what I was thinking ("there but for the grace of god go I").
Thank whatever made me see sense, for selling my machine. 165, my ars* !!! I passed this often, with my wife on the back ! (good for spotting helicopters).
There is no problem with the speed as such, maybe he was over the top with some of his antics.. but prison? I hope the judges rot in hell for sending this bloke down. Why not give him a 3 year ban?
Power crazed judges. You wait - one day they will be dishing out prison sentances for 100mph, then 90... and ever lower.
Keep it shiney side up people!
Carl.
PS don't ever film yourselves!!
Thank whatever made me see sense, for selling my machine. 165, my ars* !!! I passed this often, with my wife on the back ! (good for spotting helicopters).
There is no problem with the speed as such, maybe he was over the top with some of his antics.. but prison? I hope the judges rot in hell for sending this bloke down. Why not give him a 3 year ban?
Power crazed judges. You wait - one day they will be dishing out prison sentances for 100mph, then 90... and ever lower.
Keep it shiney side up people!
Carl.
PS don't ever film yourselves!!
Carl, Mel, Jason Top posts! As you know I am no biker but this jail sentence is bloody disgusting. Like a lot of roads in Wales the 470 is fit for very high speed. I regularly hit 140 on a weekend jaunt down to 
I guess that means I am also a criminal. I would prefer to be a free citizen of a republic which did not have a perverse sense of right from wrong.
Xylophone "this is an uncomfortable state of affairs."
How on earth can anyone sympathise with this cretin!!!
The man is clearly no cretin. He is capeable of riding his bike in a dynamic envelope which is way beyond the limits of your understanding.
What is clear is that the establishment has a very unhealthy obsession with abusing the fast and the sane. The world they reside in is one where it is acceptable bahaviour for MWPs to hang around in lavatories in the hope of satisfying their filthy habits. As for judges, they seem to have some strange habits too. I think Cynthia Payne wrote a book about those, I think her summative phrase was "wanky poos and bot bots".
I am obviously a bit wierd I just like to drink my beer, ball my chick and drive my car, not necessarily in that order. Clearly I am in a persecuted minority.
I guess that means I am also a criminal. I would prefer to be a free citizen of a republic which did not have a perverse sense of right from wrong.
Xylophone "this is an uncomfortable state of affairs."
How on earth can anyone sympathise with this cretin!!!
The man is clearly no cretin. He is capeable of riding his bike in a dynamic envelope which is way beyond the limits of your understanding.
What is clear is that the establishment has a very unhealthy obsession with abusing the fast and the sane. The world they reside in is one where it is acceptable bahaviour for MWPs to hang around in lavatories in the hope of satisfying their filthy habits. As for judges, they seem to have some strange habits too. I think Cynthia Payne wrote a book about those, I think her summative phrase was "wanky poos and bot bots".
I am obviously a bit wierd I just like to drink my beer, ball my chick and drive my car, not necessarily in that order. Clearly I am in a persecuted minority.
The man is obviously out to make a bit of money, probably after seeing the same TV article I saw, where a Japanese guy filmed himself in his Ferrari, doing nearly 200mph. The video sold 20,000 copies, until the police got hold of it, and traced him.
The sentence is ridiculous. Jail will only serve to perpetuate in the man, the same sense of injustice, that many are feeling on this site. It is very easy, Xylophone, to be trite and p.c in this nanny state, because that's the way to be "on message" with Tony Blair's pinko thinking. If, like you, one practices in the law, surely you are in a good position to see that a law which is seen as unjust by the majority of the population, is never going to be respected, nor adhered to. Have you ever gone over 70 on the motorway, or done 40 in a 30 zone? Yes you have, I'm sure. How is your behaviour, in principle, any different? The judge was trying to make an example of this man, but will it serve as an example to you, and make you rethink your driving? I suspect not, the very harshness of the judgement will detract from the message itself. That is self-evident from most of the posts, here. It harks back to the prosecution of the Stones for carrying a bit of dope, and William Rees Mogg's famous editorial in the Times, "Don't kill a butterfly on a wheel" - the punishment should fit the crime - has that REALLY happened in this case?
>> Edited by nubbin on Monday 11th March 08:40
The sentence is ridiculous. Jail will only serve to perpetuate in the man, the same sense of injustice, that many are feeling on this site. It is very easy, Xylophone, to be trite and p.c in this nanny state, because that's the way to be "on message" with Tony Blair's pinko thinking. If, like you, one practices in the law, surely you are in a good position to see that a law which is seen as unjust by the majority of the population, is never going to be respected, nor adhered to. Have you ever gone over 70 on the motorway, or done 40 in a 30 zone? Yes you have, I'm sure. How is your behaviour, in principle, any different? The judge was trying to make an example of this man, but will it serve as an example to you, and make you rethink your driving? I suspect not, the very harshness of the judgement will detract from the message itself. That is self-evident from most of the posts, here. It harks back to the prosecution of the Stones for carrying a bit of dope, and William Rees Mogg's famous editorial in the Times, "Don't kill a butterfly on a wheel" - the punishment should fit the crime - has that REALLY happened in this case?
>> Edited by nubbin on Monday 11th March 08:40
I have to agree that on the facts we've seen and read (I presume nobody was at the trial or seen the video) 12 months is steep, esp when compared to other crimes that are committed. However, I can understand where the sentence comes from, and the offence certainly isn't victimless. I suppose it could be likened (controversially) to man waving a loaded handgun around in a busy shopping center. He doesn’t have the intention to hurt anybody and is just doing it for a laugh but, if something went wrong, a lot of people may get killed. I’m sure people would say a prison sentence would be okay for this man. 150kg of metal travelling at 165mmph is a pretty lethal weapon.
I don't know the road he was travelling on, it may have the best crossviews in the world, and the smoothest tarmac, but 165mph on a public road is risky...
I don't know the road he was travelling on, it may have the best crossviews in the world, and the smoothest tarmac, but 165mph on a public road is risky...
quote:
I have to agree that on the facts we've seen and read (I presume nobody was at the trial or seen the video) 12 months is steep, esp when compared to other crimes that are committed. However, I can understand where the sentence comes from, and the offence certainly isn't victimless. I suppose it could be likened (controversially) to man waving a loaded handgun around in a busy shopping center. He doesn’t have the intention to hurt anybody and is just doing it for a laugh but, if something went wrong, a lot of people may get killed.
I suspect that is what the government want us to believe. It is not possible to get a license to wave a loaded handgun around even slowly. Yet here we are camparing a clearly illegal act with a device designed for only one purpose to the driving of a vehicle.
No Victim,no crime, name the victim please if you can.
In the town i lived in many years ago, there was an armed robbery, large jewry shop.
The robbers got away with 60-70k of jewery and no money, drove of like maniacs through the town centre, folloed by police (who nearly killed a bunch of japanese tourists) He/They was followed for about 70 miles and finally had to stop when they crashed in to another car.
They were driving at 140-150 mph constantly down the M40 for about 60 miles.
When the case finally got to court and them prosecuted the driver got 6 months suspended ban and the robber got 12 months (out after 6 for good behaviour)
So an armed robber gets 12 months and his driver assistant to robbery get 6months suspened. Thats Justice?
Must of had a good solicitor? where do solicitors get off getting people off crimes like this..
The robbers got away with 60-70k of jewery and no money, drove of like maniacs through the town centre, folloed by police (who nearly killed a bunch of japanese tourists) He/They was followed for about 70 miles and finally had to stop when they crashed in to another car.
They were driving at 140-150 mph constantly down the M40 for about 60 miles.
When the case finally got to court and them prosecuted the driver got 6 months suspended ban and the robber got 12 months (out after 6 for good behaviour)
So an armed robber gets 12 months and his driver assistant to robbery get 6months suspened. Thats Justice?
Must of had a good solicitor? where do solicitors get off getting people off crimes like this..
Good post Mel - agree wholeheartedly.
Most people who've never riden a modern bike or driven a high performance car have no concept of how small a distance they need to reach big speeds, or to slow back down again.
I guess most of us who have, will have indulged in 'instant ban/(jail?!?)' anticts now & again. We must therefore be the Governments Enemy no.1, never mind thieves/terrorists/sex offenders/bent politicians/etc.
AAAARRRRGGGGHHHH!!!!!
Most people who've never riden a modern bike or driven a high performance car have no concept of how small a distance they need to reach big speeds, or to slow back down again.
I guess most of us who have, will have indulged in 'instant ban/(jail?!?)' anticts now & again. We must therefore be the Governments Enemy no.1, never mind thieves/terrorists/sex offenders/bent politicians/etc.
AAAARRRRGGGGHHHH!!!!!
quote:
Does this mean that you think drink driving is OK so long as you don't have an accident whilst over the limit?
We can all quote laws and or cases that are totally unjust. An Irish gentleman who was dragged across the border kicking and screaming handcuffed to two policemen then jailed for being in the country illegally is one such example.
Nonegreen is not likening it to drink driving, merely repudiating another PH'ers answer..
I agree that it was Dangerous to be doing that on a Busy public road, it was quite stupid. But one Years jail ??? That is disgusting. As I said before, the punishment does not fit that crime..
Blunkett is advocating muggers, burglers, child molesters etc.. go to jail for w/e only or not goto jail at all.. Yet this poor b****rd gets a year ?!?!!?
Justice is for those who can afford it.
Jason ,what I was referring to was nonegreens assumption that if there was no victim then there was no crime.I was just asking if he felt the same way about drink-driving,after all the same thing applies here,until a drunk has an accident then there is no victim.Does this mean we let drunks drive until the inevitable occurs or do we try to stop it before it happens?
The overall question must be:
If a crime has no victim then is it still a crime?
Tricky one that. Huge implications, and probably best not brought up here.
Although, saying that, can you spot the crime?
Prostitution
Recreational Drug Use
Speeding
Suicide
Euthanasia
The list goes on...
Matt.
If a crime has no victim then is it still a crime?
Tricky one that. Huge implications, and probably best not brought up here.
Although, saying that, can you spot the crime?
Prostitution
Recreational Drug Use
Speeding
Suicide
Euthanasia
The list goes on...
Matt.
It's kinda similar to the guy who recently fell asleep and parked his range rover in front of a train.... If he had been 10 inches either way he would have hit a fence, never ended up on the railway, and never killed anyone.....and never ended up in jail.
So....do you feel you should only be punished heavily if something actually happens? I dont think so. I think Esselte has made a very good point.
I do think a years jail is completely at odds with offences for other crimes, but Im not really sure that's relevant.
If this guy had got it wrong an killed your wife/daughter/father etc... you wouldn't feel the same way about him being treated as badly...and if he hadnt been stopped he might have carried on doing it till something did happen. The Paris motorcyclist mentioned by Deadly Dog is a case in point. He is now dead.
Oh, and anyone on here who comments on his 'ability' - you dont know him, so you have no idea. I know people who boast about speeds they've acheived on public roads on bikes and in cars....and I wouldnt drive/ride with most of them as they really aren't capable of doing it. More people have access to machinery like this than are able to really use it properly. This guy could well have been very lucky he hadnt had an accident sooner.....
Night
p.s. not that I think he should go to jail mind
So....do you feel you should only be punished heavily if something actually happens? I dont think so. I think Esselte has made a very good point.
I do think a years jail is completely at odds with offences for other crimes, but Im not really sure that's relevant.
If this guy had got it wrong an killed your wife/daughter/father etc... you wouldn't feel the same way about him being treated as badly...and if he hadnt been stopped he might have carried on doing it till something did happen. The Paris motorcyclist mentioned by Deadly Dog is a case in point. He is now dead.
Oh, and anyone on here who comments on his 'ability' - you dont know him, so you have no idea. I know people who boast about speeds they've acheived on public roads on bikes and in cars....and I wouldnt drive/ride with most of them as they really aren't capable of doing it. More people have access to machinery like this than are able to really use it properly. This guy could well have been very lucky he hadnt had an accident sooner.....
Night
p.s. not that I think he should go to jail mind
I think the point is not did he commit a crime it is clear and obvious that he did. Like it or not 165mph is not acceptable by the majority of the community and is therfore accepted as a criminal act.
No it is not acceptable to drink and drive for exactly the same reasons however the point is a 12 month Jail sentance. If we applied the DD comparison we would see every 1st time DD offence jailed for a year regardless of the circumstances or if any one was injured that to in my opinion would be unacceptable. The whole point is that 12 months in the clink is totally OTT and beyond belief.
No it is not acceptable to drink and drive for exactly the same reasons however the point is a 12 month Jail sentance. If we applied the DD comparison we would see every 1st time DD offence jailed for a year regardless of the circumstances or if any one was injured that to in my opinion would be unacceptable. The whole point is that 12 months in the clink is totally OTT and beyond belief.
quote:
Oh, and anyone on here who comments on his 'ability' - you dont know him, so you have no idea.
Night just for referance my comment in quotes that said his "undoubted driving ability" was taken as a quote from the recorder in the case after it had been heard. No I don't know him and you are right in a lot of what you said. I just don't want you thinking I had claimed he had "undoubted driving ability".
If it was me looking at a year inside I'd be shouting about MY undoubted driving ability from upon high of course but then again I could because I know me
If I read this page correctly the guy could have gone down for 2 years let alone 1:
www.motoroffence.co.uk/offence.html
www.motoroffence.co.uk/offence.html
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