SUPERMARKETS - POWERS TO STOP AND SEARCH?

[JMGS4]

As nasty doorman said security have NO RIGHT to stop and search. If they ask politely and you've nothing to hide, why not let them... although warning them that they are open to prosecution for possible libel (accusing you of theft) and if they want to "arrest" you that you will willingly go with them under threat of civil action for wrongful arrest.
I only had this once in GB where a idiot cash numpty hadn't nullified the IRF tag.. refused to return to the shop as I had a receipt and was already about 200 yards from the shop, busybody got nasty, threatened violence/arrest etc. Told him I'd welcome him trying and he'd risk a very vigorous defence, and called the police myself who arrived very promptly (around the corner) and they told busybody to Foxtrot Oscar after seeing the receipt. Also got an apology from the store manager...

[anonymous-user]

Boosted LS1 said:

If it ever happens to me I'll probably tell them to feck off. I've usually got better things to do then pander to a security card who's probably on a high.

Great attitude, but i suppose it depends on the attitude of the "stopper".

I suppose we'll all end up paying more for everything to cover the theft losses if everyone had an attitude like that .

On that logic i suppose it's ok to drive with no insurance because someone else will pick up the tab in increased premiums , but i suppose the BIB with anpr have more enforcement powers to stop you than a store worker trying to do their job without a load of abuse.

[Boosted LS1]

^ Either that or we'll all be a nation of namby pamby being hustled around by goons in uniforms on a power trip. You find legions of them in all walks of life these days.

I'll stick of for my rights if not treated properly, thanks. You on the other hand may choose to sit in the small locked room like a naughty boy until bib arrive while I finish my shopping trip

[Beyond Rational]

If I know that everything in the bag is paid for and untagged, I see stopping to be searched as a waste of their time and a distraction for the evil criminal to get away.

Eta: Thread reminds me of this (first part);

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntsFV5Rr4XA

Edited by Beyond Rational on Thursday 10th December 09:43

[Nasty Doorman]

Boosted LS1 said:

^ Either that or we'll all be a nation of namby pamby being hustled around by goons in uniforms on a power trip. You find legions of them in all walks of life these days.

I'll stick of for my rights if not treated properly, thanks. You on the other hand may choose to sit in the small locked room like a naughty boy until bib arrive while I finish my shopping trip

i very very much dout it would get that far just for setting the PAS off tho unless it was found that you had something that was not paid for....
We have to ahere to SCONE at all times otherwise you could be risking your job and badge by making a stop.

[joe_90]

Hedders said:

I am sure things have changed..a lot since i worked in a supermarket in the 80's.

If anyone saw a shoplifter, a very calm call would go out over the tannoy system "Customer service 100 @ whatever location"

Upon hearing this call, every single male member of staff would be expected to come running, the meat counter boys looked forward to it. We were more than happy to chase people wherever they went and drag them back into the shop by their hair if necessary.

Shoplifters didn't have any rights back then!

Yep, i remeber back when i worked in Sainsburys, having a full on basket fight with a shoplifter.. (We just started chucking shopping baskets at him ).

Good time.. today we would be done for assault.

[bramley]

I would tell them to jog on personally. If they forgot to remove a tag, that's their problem not mine, I wouldn't waste my time and be made to look like a thief just so that some pikey security guard can puff his chest out and think he's Action Man for 5 minutes

Same thing happened to my MIL, she refused to go back in the store and walked off.

[7db]

Funny how it's all a questions of style: when the till assistant asks whether you'd like the security tag removed you see it as a service and are delighted that you bottle of vodka will be drinkable.

When jumped up little Hitler asks the same question, everyone wheedles.

"I'm terribly sorry, sir, it seems the little sh*t on the till forgot to remove your tag. This will cause you no end of bother all day -- let me get that for you".

[Boosted LS1]

Nasty Doorman said:

Boosted LS1 said:

^ Either that or we'll all be a nation of namby pamby being hustled around by goons in uniforms on a power trip. You find legions of them in all walks of life these days.

I'll stick of for my rights if not treated properly, thanks. You on the other hand may choose to sit in the small locked room like a naughty boy until bib arrive while I finish my shopping trip

i very very much dout it would get that far just for setting the PAS off tho unless it was found that you had something that was not paid for....
We have to ahere to SCONE at all times otherwise you could be risking your job and badge by making a stop.

I agree with you completely but I'm sure there'e a jobsworth out there in a smaller store who doesn't know any better.

[Decky_Q]

why would you want to take the clothes with tags on them? have landed home before and found dye or radio alarms still on clothes and it would have been easier to walk 20ft back to the shop to have them removed rather than me doing it at home with tools not made for the job imo

[aquatix]

Decky_Q said:

why would you want to take the clothes with tags on them?

Any tips on how to do it ? (remove tags, not shoplift....)!

I've got a shirt with a plastig tag & silver dome thing (magnetic ?) which was bought many months ago and I never remembered to take it back .... Could do with it for xmas parties (saves ironing).....

If it had actually set the alarm off and alerted security it would have saved me the hassle !

[Cyberprog]

Rip the guts out of a hard drive and stack the magnets and then place on top of the plastic. You should be able to release it that way, though you may need to try both poles of the magnets as they can differ in their effect.

[Hedders]

joe_90 said:

Yep, i remeber back when i worked in Sainsburys, having a full on basket fight with a shoplifter.. (We just started chucking shopping baskets at him ).

Good time.. today we would be done for assault.

I was at sainsburies too (blackbird Hill in NW London) Lovely place....

[Jasandjules]

Power to invoke citizens arrest on the basis of Theft (indictable offence). No power to search to my knowledge (but then I did this part of crim law a few years ago).

[Thudd]

SJobson said:

TehMonkey said:

Next time just let them deactivate the security tags so it doesnt go off in other stores

I used to find that the security tags in Fopp in Leamington would set off the alarms in HMV even though they'd been deactivated. Bloody irritating.

Music shops are bad for this. Expect things to get worse as RFID gets rolled out.

[Dwight VanDriver]

A civilian Store D in these circumstances has no statutory power to stop and search but there is nothing to prevent a Store D asking a member of the public if he can.

If the 'warning' has gone out indicating a possible theft then if on being asked a person refuses the search what are the options for the Store D?

Serious Organised Ccrime Act 2005 gives him this power of arrest as a civilan:

(1) A person other than a constable may arrest without a warrant—

(a) anyone who is in the act of committing an indictable offence;

(b) anyone whom he has reasonable grounds for suspecting to be committing an indictable offence.

Shoplifting is Theft, Theft is an indictable offence.

Once arrested he has to hand over to a Constable.

The question to be asked and will be at Court is does a warning of possible illegally taken goods and a refusal for a search come under (b) above?

dvd

[mel]

I remember watching on tele' the "security tag olympics" the idea is that you walk out of a store with a security tag (you go in with it as well so don't steal anything) then when the alarm goes off on your exit you break into a sprint and have to make it to the nearest McDonalds without being caught to class it as a win. They had more and more variations such as looking the security gaurd in the eye and giving him the finger before running, slowing down to let him catch up a bit and generally milking it for the fun factor. All very imature and huge wasts of time etc but hilarious to watch.

[Boosted LS1]

Dwight VanDriver said:

A civilian Store D in these circumstances has no statutory power to stop and search but there is nothing to prevent a Store D asking a member of the public if he can.

If the 'warning' has gone out indicating a possible theft then if on being asked a person refuses the search what are the options for the Store D?

Serious Organised Ccrime Act 2005 gives him this power of arrest as a civilan:

(1) A person other than a constable may arrest without a warrant—

(a) anyone who is in the act of committing an indictable offence;

(b) anyone whom he has reasonable grounds for suspecting to be committing an indictable offence.

Shoplifting is Theft, Theft is an indictable offence.

Once arrested he has to hand over to a Constable.

The question to be asked and will be at Court is does a warning of possible illegally taken goods and a refusal for a search come under (b) above?

dvd

And if there are no stolen goods then presumably the arrest is unlawful along with false imprisonment.

[Jasandjules]

Boosted LS1 said:

And if there are no stolen goods then presumably the arrest is unlawful along with false imprisonment.

No, the question is whether there were reasonable grounds to suspect IIRC.

[Boosted LS1]

Maybe for a police officer but do you think that applies to a store detective, basically a civvy? 15 years ago I was arrested and detained by the police following a rowdy incident in a pub. I was actually a bystander/witness. After the aquittal I sued them for unlawful arrest, assault and false imprisonment. I won all 3, I can't see a store guard being 'more correct' then bib if you know what I mean.