Horses On The Roads - What's the Law?
Discussion
S10 GTA said:
OP, you seem to be taking everything your son says as gospel. I can just see now. Do you genuinely believe that he was flagged down and abused for no reason? I can just see him asking "dear woman, what is your problem on this fine day?"
It's far more likely that he passed to close and fast, shouting abuse along the lines of "get off the f'ing road" and put the hammer down in a fit of rage. As someone who has spent his whole life around horses and as a cyclist I see this almost on a daily basis. It's the whole "you don't pay road tax" mentality..
Your extreme emotional response suggests that you are part of the whole "spent his whole life around horses and cyclist" mentality...It's far more likely that he passed to close and fast, shouting abuse along the lines of "get off the f'ing road" and put the hammer down in a fit of rage. As someone who has spent his whole life around horses and as a cyclist I see this almost on a daily basis. It's the whole "you don't pay road tax" mentality..
(you see, it works both ways)
otolith said:
S10 GTA said:
OP, you seem to be taking everything your son says as gospel. I can just see now. Do you genuinely believe that he was flagged down and abused for no reason? I can just see him asking "dear woman, what is your problem on this fine day?"
Father in "believing his own son over people he believes to have a grudge" shock. 
Just an update, he's been granted legal aid, which is helpful.
Also, will the character reference from the policeman help? This copper happens to have seen my son drive on a number of occasions, and has also been on journeys with him to motorsport events.
Finally, if he is found guilty, what is the likely outcome? I know this offence can carry up to 6 months in prison, but being his first offence, surely they won't enforce a custodial sentence? Will they?
Also, will the character reference from the policeman help? This copper happens to have seen my son drive on a number of occasions, and has also been on journeys with him to motorsport events.
Finally, if he is found guilty, what is the likely outcome? I know this offence can carry up to 6 months in prison, but being his first offence, surely they won't enforce a custodial sentence? Will they?
agtlaw said:
any reason you're not directing your queries to your son's solicitor?
I'll hazard a guess that the solicitor is explaining what is likely to happen, which is not what the OP wants to hear. So instead he is canvassing opinion on a forum and hoping that if the majority agree with his point of view then he can rely on that to produce a not guilty verdict.agtlaw said:
any reason you're not directing your queries to your son's solicitor?
Just asking for general views. His solicitor seems to have a pretty laid back view on it, but I myself am requesting a meeting with him on monday. I have compiled evidence, using my background as a physicist, showing that the 'independent witness' cannot have heard what was being said, from her own testimony of where she was stood at the time of the incident, and triangulated her position as being over 130 yards away from the incident at the time. I am also the only person who can verify what time my son came home that night, and all 4 witnesses give different times on their statement, and none are correct.
This case seems to boil down to whether or not telling someone to "p
s off" is a breech of public order?
"On 19/09/2011 at HAXBY, YORK, NORTH YORKSHIRE, with intent to cause (horse riders names omitted for obvious reasons) harassment, alarm or distress, used threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour or disorderly behaviour, thereby causing that person or another harassment, alarm or distress.
- LEGISLATION: 'Contrary to Section 4A(1) and (5) of the Public Order Act 1986.'
- CCCJS CODE: PU86116'
- ACPO: '7.6.17.1'
- PNLD CODE: 'H350'
Contrary to Section 4A(1) and (5) of the Public Order Act 1986."
There has to be some mileage in demonstrating that the claimed "abusive behaviour" (" ps off! ") was, itself, a response to behaviour of a similar kind demonstrated by the horse riders, namely vociferous protestations as to the nature of his vehicle, and possibly his behaviour in it? The riders then aggravated the situation by failing to control their horses which left the defendant with no option but to scaper in his fiberglass car that could easily have been damaged by an enormous ass...horses ass, I mean.
If anything, there are failings on both sides.
The whole thing is farcical.
Its another one of these victimless crimes.
What purpose will prosecuting anyone over it achieve?
s off" is a breech of public order?"On 19/09/2011 at HAXBY, YORK, NORTH YORKSHIRE, with intent to cause (horse riders names omitted for obvious reasons) harassment, alarm or distress, used threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour or disorderly behaviour, thereby causing that person or another harassment, alarm or distress.
- LEGISLATION: 'Contrary to Section 4A(1) and (5) of the Public Order Act 1986.'
- CCCJS CODE: PU86116'
- ACPO: '7.6.17.1'
- PNLD CODE: 'H350'
Contrary to Section 4A(1) and (5) of the Public Order Act 1986."
There has to be some mileage in demonstrating that the claimed "abusive behaviour" (" p
s off! ") was, itself, a response to behaviour of a similar kind demonstrated by the horse riders, namely vociferous protestations as to the nature of his vehicle, and possibly his behaviour in it? The riders then aggravated the situation by failing to control their horses which left the defendant with no option but to scaper in his fiberglass car that could easily have been damaged by an enormous ass...horses ass, I mean. If anything, there are failings on both sides.
The whole thing is farcical.
Its another one of these victimless crimes.
What purpose will prosecuting anyone over it achieve?
jp-sr71 said:
This case seems to boil down to whether or not telling someone to "ps off" is a breech of public order?
<snipped>
If anything, there are failings on both sides.
The whole thing is farcical.
Its another one of these victimless crimes.
What purpose will prosecuting anyone over it achieve?
A view that I suspect the majority of the readers and respondents share, if not already expressed.s off" is a breech of public order?<snipped>
If anything, there are failings on both sides.
The whole thing is farcical.
Its another one of these victimless crimes.
What purpose will prosecuting anyone over it achieve?
Time will out.
jp-sr71 said:
It's the context that is important, not the words themselves.singlecoil said:
jp-sr71 said:
It's the context that is important, not the words themselves.
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