Police Officer Smashes Windscreen
Discussion
TVR1 said:
Did you choose to ignore the part in all of the reporting that then goes on to say
'Released without charge?'
Or would that be an uncomfortable truth, that the chap involved had done nothing wrong, other than 'being in the possession of curly black hair and thick lips'.
Trouble is, how would an officer ever be able to tell if a person was acting lawfully if they won't cooperate. Criminals unfortunately tend to tell lies.'Released without charge?'
Or would that be an uncomfortable truth, that the chap involved had done nothing wrong, other than 'being in the possession of curly black hair and thick lips'.
If he really though the driver was acting unlawfully and would not leave the car, he should have put him under arrest, then his refusal to leave the car would have been a criminal act of resisting arrest.
A police officer must always be able to arrest someone if they have a legitimate suspicion. They can break windscreens to arrest someone, if it's reasonable and proportional.
However, they cannot ever loose their temper. This case looks like the officer lost it and acted unacceptably, and possibly illegally (criminal damage ?) and it's possible the driver was concerned about their well being if they got out.
I can't even think what it would be like to be frightened of the police just because of the colour of your skin, but just watch any episode of road wars to see what complete a
holes the police have to deal with every day.Edited by Gary C on Wednesday 21st September 16:00
dondadda said:
Pothole said:
How are you sure he's "an innocent driver"?
1. innocent until proven guilty.... so he is innocent until he is proven guilty in a court of lawFor all the BiB Haters on here, I received death threats from a customer who conveniently liquidated his company owing me £26k and in total £200k to 6 other companies. I was out of order chasing him for my money as far as he thought FFS!!
Police couldn't have been any better, total support even though both I and the BiB think these are more Billy Big bks than serious! He's now on a 'Watch List'? so if anything happens to me or my stuff, he's first in line to be arrested. (He's had a visit)
BIB do a fantastic job as far as I'm concerned, I have driven slightly faster than certain speed limits but I actually look ahead rather than the car in front and if I get a NIP, it's MY fault for lack of observation, not BiBS fault for doing their job!!
Police couldn't have been any better, total support even though both I and the BiB think these are more Billy Big b
ks than serious! He's now on a 'Watch List'? so if anything happens to me or my stuff, he's first in line to be arrested. (He's had a visit) BIB do a fantastic job as far as I'm concerned, I have driven slightly faster than certain speed limits but I actually look ahead rather than the car in front and if I get a NIP, it's MY fault for lack of observation, not BiBS fault for doing their job!!
surveyor_101 said:
Rovinghawk said:
What your saying that you want all police to stand down and walk away from any road traffic stops if a the driver stops, but then locks themselves in the car cracks the window an inch and refuses to do anything the officer asks them to do?
Since you believe nothing the officer asked the driver was lawful or reasonable under the circumstances.
Ok whilst it seems a bit over the top and like some red mist may of set in!
The officer has stopped a car hard in circumstances we don't fully understand. Officer is in stressful situation and has asked for the driver to step out of the vehicle whilst they establish who they are and whether they are entitled to be driving. The intel the police have is of a disqual driver either being linked to the car or the registered from what I can gather.
If the driver refuses to cease being in control of a car or provide proof of identity of who they are, officer has two choices, do nothing of as he choose here force-ably gain entry as he did in this case. There are no other real options and the intel the officer had my of been of a death by dangerous for all we know.
In 9-10 occasions if the driver has nothing to hide they will not behave in this disrespectful/obstructive manor.
The ramifications of this case had the officer not took control of the situation is :
a) people would lock doors crack window and think happy days they can't do their job if I do this!
b) people could think they can film officers trying to do a job and they won't take any action for fear of being filmed.
Either way it undermines the police for just doing their duty.
Edited by surveyor_101 on Wednesday 21st September 13:54
Edited by surveyor_101 on Wednesday 21st September 13:58
carinaman said:
V6Pushfit said:
RobinOakapple said:
What Rovinghawk is saying is that he hates the police to the bottom of his soul. Best to ignore him, he will do nothing but snipe at the police and anybody who he thinks supports them.
Thnaks for the clarification. Whats happened to him in the past then? Caught out for real? At the end of the day the manner in which PC Savage conducted himself when he dealt with Mr Leon Fontana and Mr Adair-Whyte has nothing to do with anything anybody has posted on PH.
Just for balance and clarification, all of the corrupt police officers I've had the misfortune to encounter are white.
Edited by carinaman on Wednesday 21st September 14:48
Did you have a point?
Edited by Pothole on Wednesday 21st September 16:55
dondadda said:
1. innocent until proven guilty.... so he is innocent until he is proven guilty in a court of law
2. according to the BBC news report nobody was arrested after the angry man realised it was a case of mistaken identity
Why are people introducing so many ifs/maybes. Maybe he has form, Maybe he was driving dangerously, Maybe he was on his way to kill the Queen? Rather surprising that the angry man didn't mention any of these. The alleged crime mentioned by the angry man was 'driving whilst disqualified'
https://youtu.be/LdH5YK9haKQ.
Watch the above video and see what police who know the law did when a driver rightly refused to exit his vehicle. They didn't start smashing things up. They used their powers to screw him over. Not that its right but at least they didn't break the law. Well played
Look at it from this perspective, the guy is guilty and should not be driving.2. according to the BBC news report nobody was arrested after the angry man realised it was a case of mistaken identity
Why are people introducing so many ifs/maybes. Maybe he has form, Maybe he was driving dangerously, Maybe he was on his way to kill the Queen? Rather surprising that the angry man didn't mention any of these. The alleged crime mentioned by the angry man was 'driving whilst disqualified'
https://youtu.be/LdH5YK9haKQ.
Watch the above video and see what police who know the law did when a driver rightly refused to exit his vehicle. They didn't start smashing things up. They used their powers to screw him over. Not that its right but at least they didn't break the law. Well played
What do you do when he locks himself in the car and refuses to cooperate?
What would you do?
spookly said:
C70R said:
spookly said:
Coppers are not meant to dole out attitude, aggression and violence as retribution for offences... that is for the courts to enforce. The police should be making sure they have grounds to arrest, arresting people, and booking them into the nick. And they should be doing that with the bare minimum of force.
Absolutely this. People sometimes forget that the police don't exist to apply the law, but to oversee its application. Intelligent officers know that violence/force should be the absolute last resort, and certainly never used as a form of retribution or punishment. However, PC YouTube seems to have missed that day of training.k me. Did we just agree on something 
surveyor_101 said:
dondadda said:
1. innocent until proven guilty.... so he is innocent until he is proven guilty in a court of law
2. according to the BBC news report nobody was arrested after the angry man realised it was a case of mistaken identity
Why are people introducing so many ifs/maybes. Maybe he has form, Maybe he was driving dangerously, Maybe he was on his way to kill the Queen? Rather surprising that the angry man didn't mention any of these. The alleged crime mentioned by the angry man was 'driving whilst disqualified'
https://youtu.be/LdH5YK9haKQ.
Watch the above video and see what police who know the law did when a driver rightly refused to exit his vehicle. They didn't start smashing things up. They used their powers to screw him over. Not that its right but at least they didn't break the law. Well played
Look at it from this perspective, the guy is guilty and should not be driving.2. according to the BBC news report nobody was arrested after the angry man realised it was a case of mistaken identity
Why are people introducing so many ifs/maybes. Maybe he has form, Maybe he was driving dangerously, Maybe he was on his way to kill the Queen? Rather surprising that the angry man didn't mention any of these. The alleged crime mentioned by the angry man was 'driving whilst disqualified'
https://youtu.be/LdH5YK9haKQ.
Watch the above video and see what police who know the law did when a driver rightly refused to exit his vehicle. They didn't start smashing things up. They used their powers to screw him over. Not that its right but at least they didn't break the law. Well played
What do you do when he locks himself in the car and refuses to cooperate?
What would you do?
So what other courses of action would have delayed matters long enough for his colleague to realise that Leon is not TJ?
Bigends said:
Why do you need to get out of the car to give your name, address and date of birth?
We don't no the reading behind the hard stop but normally it's due to risk the driver might flee. So there path is blocked to avoid a pursuit developing.Also you can't question people in a car with keys if your have reason to believe they are dodgy as they could attempt to flee risking your life and others.
They need to see the person so they can review description, and if the guy had no credentials they will want to scan his finger print on a mobile lantern device to pnc him.
You can't question someone suspected of a motoring offence whilst they are in control of a vehicle through an inch crack in the window.
dondadda said:
Pothole said:
How are you sure he's "an innocent driver"?
1. innocent until proven guilty.... so he is innocent until he is proven guilty in a court of law2. according to the BBC news report nobody was arrested after the angry man realised it was a case of mistaken identity
Why are people introducing so many ifs/maybes.
Pothole said:
dondadda said:
Pothole said:
How are you sure he's "an innocent driver"?
1. innocent until proven guilty.... so he is innocent until he is proven guilty in a court of law2. according to the BBC news report nobody was arrested after the angry man realised it was a case of mistaken identity
Why are people introducing so many ifs/maybes.
Pothole said:
Hardly surprising (lovely use of "all" by the way, implying a huge number - inadvertently I'm sure) when the vast majority of officers is white, like the population as a whole.
Did you have a point?
I didn't type that all police officers I've met are corrupt.Did you have a point?
It just happens the corrupt police that I've encountered are white.
So corrupt officers keep themselves out of harm's way or do they conduct themselves in a manner that brings attention upon themselves and raises questions about their integrity and motives?
How corrupt are officers that don't finger, inform on or tackle their corrupt colleagues?
Some police officers are incompetent. Some police officers are corrupt. That's not my fault.
surveyor_101 said:
Look at it from this perspective, the guy is guilty and should not be driving.
What do you do when he locks himself in the car and refuses to cooperate?
What would you do?
I am driving behind a car and run the plates cause it looks familiar. Information comes back that it belongs to a TJ who is disqualified from driving. Car shows as registered and has a valid MOT and insurance.What do you do when he locks himself in the car and refuses to cooperate?
What would you do?
I pull the car and walk up to the driver. 1st thing any sensible policeman would do would be to ascertain the identity of the driver by requesting ID. If Driver provides ID and he isnt TJ, then I do any other necessary checks, give any tickets and everyone will be on their merry way. If ID is requested and the driver fails to provide one or identify himself by any other practical means. I would place him under arrest and give him sufficient warning that I would use necessary force to extract him from the vehicle if he refused to exit voluntarily.
Angry man went 0-60 in 10 secs. He didnt verify the identity of the person in the vehicle. He didnt use his negotiation skills, he just went into rage and started smashing things.
Like someone asked what would the officer have achieved by Leon getting out of the car? Leon was going nowhere. His key was out of the ignition and he was blocked in by a police car.
Dont give me the story of he may have driven off. If the policeman in the police car thought that, he wouldnt be standing in the door of the police car
Very unfair to suggest "white" officers are corrupt ....why in a very friendly "embrace" with a white american girl in Acapulco on the beach .....two mexican police officers disturbed my fumblings by sticking a machine gun into my back......and then once we had stood up then took off me every penny i had, my watch, and her rings as "Payment" for our fine!......
If you want to talk about corruption I would suggest our Police forces are probably the least corrupt in the world.....and some of us are lucky enough to be able to type "stuff" about them without an early morning kick on the door.
As bad as one or two are in the UK they are by far the best Forces in the world and bar a few "incidents" we are lucky to have them....as few as they are!
If you don't like them....you could always move to some where like...hhhmmm shall we say America.....and see how you get treated there.....I would ps off any 1st world Police force like they have in Singapore, or in France at the moment!!!!
be careful what you wish for!
If you want to talk about corruption I would suggest our Police forces are probably the least corrupt in the world.....and some of us are lucky enough to be able to type "stuff" about them without an early morning kick on the door.
As bad as one or two are in the UK they are by far the best Forces in the world and bar a few "incidents" we are lucky to have them....as few as they are!
If you don't like them....you could always move to some where like...hhhmmm shall we say America.....and see how you get treated there.....I would p
s off any 1st world Police force like they have in Singapore, or in France at the moment!!!!be careful what you wish for!
swindler said:
Perhaps when initially requested the chap should have got out of his car. Is that so complex?
exactly.If he just got out of the car and spoke to the officer in a civil manner all this could have been avoided.
I think it's crap that we see these selective clips and condemn the policeman based on incomplete information, rather than supporting them in doing a very difficult job.
I don't believe the policeman would have go to such a state of foreculness without having been severely provoked first.
wibblebrain said:
exactly.
If he just got out of the car and spoke to the officer in a civil manner all this could have been avoided.
I think it's crap that we see these selective clips and condemn the policeman based on incomplete information, rather than supporting them in doing a very difficult job.
I don't believe the policeman would have go to such a state of foreculness without having been severely provoked first.
+1If he just got out of the car and spoke to the officer in a civil manner all this could have been avoided.
I think it's crap that we see these selective clips and condemn the policeman based on incomplete information, rather than supporting them in doing a very difficult job.
I don't believe the policeman would have go to such a state of foreculness without having been severely provoked first.
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