Norfolk Police claim sports exhausts are illegal?

[valais]

fangio said:

(they're very mechanically noisy, as well as from the exhaust)

Summat wrong there, then!

Why? Older cars have less sound insulation - I.e. a lot of noise from the engine bay as well as the exhaust...

[Fastpedeller]

clarkey540i said:

I usually use main dealer ones for a different make of car on the basis that they can't try to sell me anything. I take the 540 to Ford dealerships usually, and the Ka to BMW ones.

I thought that was a reaasonable move until I took our Ka to a VW main dealer for MOT. Failed it on play at top of strut - long story stort, on making further enquiries at various Ford dealers 'they are all like it' and they shouldn't have failed it. So if they don't know the 'foibles' of a particular car it may not be a good move. The other prob with this 'Main Dealer' type MOT is that they wouldn't let me speak to the examiner to find out exactly what the issue was - with our usual MOT station if there is an issue they'll let me take a look whilst the car is on the ramp (I take a hard hat in the car in case on any H&S issues!). Big laugh was the emissions test at the VW dealer which showed zero CO - so I asked if there was a possibility of a statement from them so I could claim free Road Fund Licence!

[PanzerCommander]

HD Adam said:

What if your vehicle doesn't have Type Approval?

I had an SVA on my import truck. What's the deal there?

I assume it just has to comply with the 99dB SVA static test limit. If VOSA are happy with it I wouldn't even worry about it, plenty of factory standard cars (TVR's spring to mind) break the farcical limits enforced by the Norfolk police.

[Frik]

TVRs weren't type approved though...

[PanzerCommander]

Frik said:

TVRs weren't type approved though...

True but I imagine they would have had to pass the same noise regs on the SVA? and they did have a factory standard fit whether type aproved or not.

[Superhoop]

Russ T Bolt said:

rscott said:

You're seriously saying a BMW dealer would be happy to sell me a new car and install this exhaust upgrade, thereby rendering the car illegal to use on British roads?

Land Rover did/do. The front tinted windows on the RRS are/were illegal. Been a few on those Police,Camera, Action type programmes where the owner was given the choice of removing the tint or getting a ticket. In every case it had been factory ordered.

Rubbish..

1. The car wouldn't gain type approval with tinted front side windows
2. If the glass was factory tinted, there would be no film to peel off, as the tint would be in the glass

[ging84]

This is how manufacturers can make a road legal performance exhaust, the get an individual type approval for retrofitting of an exhaust, The vehicle manufacturer this is very easy to do, for after market it is costly, but clearly some companies are doing it

here is an example for one for a mini cooper S
http://az79640.vo.msecnd.net/akrapovicbppmultimedi...

this company http://www.akrapovic.com/en/Automotive/Pages/defau... seems to offer a lot with approval

the example certificate shows quite a lot of detail about the system so it can be identified, and specifies the exact models and engine it is approved for.

[PanzerCommander]

Superhoop said:

Russ T Bolt said:

rscott said:

You're seriously saying a BMW dealer would be happy to sell me a new car and install this exhaust upgrade, thereby rendering the car illegal to use on British roads?

Land Rover did/do. The front tinted windows on the RRS are/were illegal. Been a few on those Police,Camera, Action type programmes where the owner was given the choice of removing the tint or getting a ticket. In every case it had been factory ordered.

Rubbish..

1. The car wouldn't gain type approval with tinted front side windows
2. If the glass was factory tinted, there would be no film to peel off, as the tint would be in the glass

This, it will have been fitted at the time of sale by the dealer (or a sub contract company for the dealer).

[Panda P]

speedking31 said:

ut an even more powerful, sporty sound does not necessarily have to be louder.

But it is, the BMW Performance series are pretty raw I must say. They've engineered a series of exhaust silencers that tune the sound to a 'not much above normal' sound while cruising which wouldn't be noticed however, when the car is cold started they are very loud and while going for it they wail like a highly strung sports car; they really do sound nice. I can only see that this may cause problems for people who have neighbours that complain or don't like being woken up if you leave earlier than them for work.

I wouldn't suggest that this exhaust will attract police attention as it doesn't sound like an unrefined fart can. You'd only get issues if someone in your street complained consistently but that's true for any sporty car really; it's no louder than any Porsche or M3 for example and I doubt it'd fail any tests.

Personally I'm all for a nice sounding car so OP, if I ever move to Norfolk you won't hear a peep from me .

[spaximus]

It is a bad law that will see people pass or fail on wheter the officer feels like it.

I was at the Klarius exhaust factory yesterday, they make exhausts that are the same as the OE and each one is type approved by a goverment agency with noise meter etc.

Other manufacturers do not put their version through this process as the cost is high. So by defacto all of these are illegal if you take Norfolk police at their word.

My Westfield passed the SAV at 101 decible which the goverment says is legal, a normal road car is around 80db so an officer with nothing more than an ear could say it is too noisey. Same with Caterham etc etc.

When it was talked about people were okay thinking it would just affect the chavs but as it now seems they can do what they want with it.

[singlecoil]

Noise is subjective, and even sound that is pleasant to some (such as loud exhausts) can become noise depending on context and time. So it's pointless trying to measure car noise objectively even if that were feasible (which it isn't).

[300bhp/ton]

Jonleeper said:

richie99 said:

I have no particularly strong feeling one way or another but I think they do know what they are referring to and they almost certainly right - just no one has ever bothered to enforce it.

Norfolk Police said:

Big bore and sports exhaust systems are usually fitted to increase the sound emitted and this contravenes the Type Approval of the vehicle, which is an offence. There is no requirement for police to measure the sound level from the exhaust system, it only requires an opinion that the system is not standard and that it is noisier than a normal vehicle of the same specification.

So you are happy that the Law states it is an offence to fit an exhaust with the intention of increasing the sound but Norfolk Police don't think it's necessary to test this at all? The opinion of a policeman is all that is necessary. We are straying further and further into MegaCity 1. What's next "I think your car is too old"? "I think your car is the wrong colour"? "I think your car is too expensive for you"?

If it's actually worded like the above, then it makes no sense anyhow.

A car with a sports exhaust on is still 'normal' and it clearly states "that it is noisier than a normal vehicle of the same specification". To me 'same specification would mean one also fitted with the same sports exhaust on, so yours would not be any louder anyhow.

[speedking31]

If you buy an aftermarket exhaust from Kwik fit, i.e. standard but not OEM, and it is 0.1dB louder than the standard exhaust then it is illegal. Senseless. But even if it is 1dB quieter but a policeman thinks it might be louder then it is still illegal Ludicrous.

[Monkey boy 1]

Had this happen to me, Mr Norfolk Plod stopped me for having a "loud looking exhaust" , they did a noise check on it, it failed according to their procedures and was given a £30 FPN.
Anyway, to cut a very long story short I went through the courts to prove them wrong.

Outcome was basically I was a naughty boy for having a sports exhaust, but norfolk police procedures for cheching exhausts was totally incorrect. They had just about made up what figures they liked to get a procecution, Nothing the Police presented in court matched up with the ISO5130 test spec or the Construction & use regs, which was thrown out by the Magistrate

[aeropilot]

rscott said:

This claims that changing your exhaust for one which is non-standard and makes the car louder is illegal?

So BMW will sell an exhaust which makes my car break the law by providing 'an even more powerful, sporty sound' . This is a dealer fitted upgrade, so can't be part of the original Type Approval.

The BMWPE is type approved.

I have a BMWPE on my 135i, and the noise level is within stated EU regs for type approval. What isn't is combining the BMWPE with the BMW engine power kit, as when tested to type approval by BMW the noise exceeded the EU limit, so BMW won't fit the powerkit if the exhaust is already in place, or they won't fit the exhaust if you have the power kit already in place or they won't fit both together

[ging84]

Monkey boy 1 said:

Had this happen to me, Mr Norfolk Plod stopped me for having a "loud looking exhaust" , they did a noise check on it, it failed according to their procedures and was given a £30 FPN.
Anyway, to cut a very long story short I went through the courts to prove them wrong.

Outcome was basically I was a naughty boy for having a sports exhaust, but norfolk police procedures for cheching exhausts was totally incorrect. They had just about made up what figures they liked to get a procecution, Nothing the Police presented in court matched up with the ISO5130 test spec or the Construction & use regs, which was thrown out by the Magistrate

your case completely supports their position that they do not need any evidence, that a policeman's opinion is enough to issue the fine, as you had all the evidence thrown out and still technically got found guilty.

[pcvdriver]

matchmaker said:

Norfolk Stasi said:

The vast majority of large or big bore exhausts are illegal for use on public roads. The fact they may have passed an MOT test is irrelevant as this only checks for exhaust gasses and emission legislation compliance.

Big bore and sports exhaust systems are usually fitted to increase the sound emitted and this contravenes the Type Approval of the vehicle, which is an offence. There is no requirement for police to measure the sound level from the exhaust system, it only requires an opinion that the system is not standard and that it is noisier than a normal vehicle of the same specification.

It is not an offence to sell these exhaust systems, but it is an offence to fit one to your vehicle and drive it on a public road. Motorists who do so would be reported to court and may face a fine and court costs.

I fitted an - expensive - sports exhaust system to my car. To liberate more power. It may be louder than standard - if it is it's not noticeable. So if I travel through Norfolk (which I have no intention of doing - it's too flat and I like my countryside to be like my women - curvy) the plod can stop me and charge me if they think my car is louder than standard? How will they tell - will they be carrying an i-pod loaded with "standard" exhaust noise for every car on the road today?

wkers.

and a big high six to the Norfolk cops.....

[Fab32]

So how will it work for my car then?

A 316 compact with an m3 engine in it. How can they prove it is louder than standard? There is no standard.

I plan on having an exhaust fitted by power and performance in Norwich I will have to drive it back quietly until I cross the boarder

Fab

[JordanTurbo]

Fab32 said:

So how will it work for my car then?

A 316 compact with an m3 engine in it. How can they prove it is louder than standard? There is no standard.

I plan on having an exhaust fitted by power and performance in Norwich I will have to drive it back quietly until I cross the boarder

Fab

A few years ago I got stopped and given a FPN for my Vauxhall Astra fitted with a 2ltr Cavalier Turbo engine (1.6ltr 8 valve originally) because it was louder than the standard car. Common sense does not come into it if the testing Police officer has made his mind up.

I must say it was tested the same way as monkey boy 1 though, with a meter.

[rscott]

aeropilot said:

The BMWPE is type approved.

I have a BMWPE on my 135i, and the noise level is within stated EU regs for type approval. What isn't is combining the BMWPE with the BMW engine power kit, as when tested to type approval by BMW the noise exceeded the EU limit, so BMW won't fit the powerkit if the exhaust is already in place, or they won't fit the exhaust if you have the power kit ailready in place or they won't fit both together

That type approval makes no difference to Norfolk Police - you've made the CSR louder than it was originally. If that website truly reflects their position then you'd be in trouble