Continuous Insurance Enforcement

[Emma Patterson]

nigel_bytes said:

Another way of extracting money from car owners.

Millions of uninsured motorists have until the end of the year to buy appropriate cover or face an unprecedented crackdown from police and the courts – including fines of up to £1,000 – even if their vehicle is not being driven.

Plans published recently by the Department for Transport (DfT) will soon make it an offence purely to be the registered keeper of an uninsured vehicle, while police will not have to prove it was in use.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2010/jan/10/motor-...

They can get you even now if the car is not being used but is parked on a public road or in a public place to which the public have access. The courts interpret the word "use" to mean "have the oppotunity to use" so you don't have to be caught actually in the car or driving it. If the car is on private land then they have no argument, but they may have in the future. they are bringing in a new law that states that you can be done if you are the registered keeper of a car that doesn't have insurance.

If anyone gets caught not using their car then they may have a special reasons argument to avoid the points. Give me a shout if anyone wants to know more on that front. Its a nasty little offence 6-8 points even if you weren't caught driving.

[EU_Foreigner]

oldsoak said:

EU_Foreigner said:

If the UK insurance racket was made the same as on the continent it would be so much easier. Over there, the car is insured - not the person.

So the case of the person his mum's / uncle's etc car and not being insured would not be possible then.

The car is insured over here too. That's what this is supposed to make sure happens in all cases where it should.
It means that 'Johnny Criminal' can't avoid paying insurance and just SORN his car and still use it on a road when he feels like it.

It does not stop the uninsured driver scenario though.

[oldsoak]

EU_Foreigner said:

oldsoak said:

EU_Foreigner said:

If the UK insurance racket was made the same as on the continent it would be so much easier. Over there, the car is insured - not the person.

So the case of the person his mum's / uncle's etc car and not being insured would not be possible then.

The car is insured over here too. That's what this is supposed to make sure happens in all cases where it should.
It means that 'Johnny Criminal' can't avoid paying insurance and just SORN his car and still use it on a road when he feels like it.

It does not stop the uninsured driver scenario though.

True but we are not talking uninsured drivers we're talking uninsured cars/vehicles here.

[saaby93]

oldsoak said:

The car is insured over here too. That's what this is supposed to make sure happens in all cases where it should.
It means that 'Johnny Criminal' can't avoid paying insurance and just SORN his car and still use it on a road when he feels like it.

Of course he can still use it, he'll open the door pop in the key and away

It's just a question of whether he can use it legally.
Before or after it's still illegal.


The new law's only to affect those who have their cars legally off road and unsinsured

[SS2.]

saaby93 said:

The new law's only to affect those who have their cars legally off road and unsinsured

And to avoid falling foul of the forthcoming legislation, all they are required to do is make a SORN declaration (as may be required for expired VED).

[saaby93]

SS2 said:

And to avoid falling foul of the forthcoming legislation, all they are required to do is make a SORN declaration (as may be required for expired VED).

I know that
But where's the 'win' for all the extra effort?

[oldsoak]

saaby93 said:

oldsoak said:

The car is insured over here too. That's what this is supposed to make sure happens in all cases where it should.
It means that 'Johnny Criminal' can't avoid paying insurance and just SORN his car and still use it on a road when he feels like it.

Of course he can still use it, he'll open the door pop in the key and away

It's just a question of whether he can use it legally.
Before or after it's still illegal.


The new law's only to affect those who have their cars legally off road and unsinsured

I'm trying desperately hard to believe you ain't being deliberately obtuse here saaby.

You seem to be forgetting it also affects those who have a car off road on private property uninsured and SORN'ed but like to drive about in it regardless...which was illegal before but they needed to be actually CAUGHT driving it before they could be 'done'...now they don't have to be driving it to be prosecuted.

[Nick_F]

oldsoak said:

saaby93 said:

oldsoak said:

The car is insured over here too. That's what this is supposed to make sure happens in all cases where it should.
It means that 'Johnny Criminal' can't avoid paying insurance and just SORN his car and still use it on a road when he feels like it.

Of course he can still use it, he'll open the door pop in the key and away

It's just a question of whether he can use it legally.
Before or after it's still illegal.


The new law's only to affect those who have their cars legally off road and unsinsured

I'm trying desperately hard to believe you ain't being deliberately obtuse here saaby.

You seem to be forgetting it also affects those who have a car off road on private property uninsured and SORN'ed but like to drive about in it regardless...which was illegal before but they needed to be actually CAUGHT driving it before they could be 'done'...now they don't have to be driving it to be prosecuted.

Eh? If SORN in place then no prosecution unless you get 'CAUGHT driving...'

[saaby93]

oldsoak said:

I'm trying desperately hard to believe you ain't being deliberately obtuse here saaby.

You seem to be forgetting it also affects those who have a car off road on private property uninsured and SORN'ed but like to drive about in it regardless...which was illegal before but they needed to be actually CAUGHT driving it before they could be 'done'...now they don't have to be driving it to be prosecuted.

not being obtuse, just testing how it will play out. All they'll have to do is register it SORN and use it.

[oldsoak]

saaby93 said:

oldsoak said:

I'm trying desperately hard to believe you ain't being deliberately obtuse here saaby.

You seem to be forgetting it also affects those who have a car off road on private property uninsured and SORN'ed but like to drive about in it regardless...which was illegal before but they needed to be actually CAUGHT driving it before they could be 'done'...now they don't have to be driving it to be prosecuted.

not being obtuse, just testing how it will play out. All they'll have to do is register it SORN and use it.

Christ on a bike...They do that now.... but up until now if that car was kept on private property Plod had to catch them using it...now they don't...geddit yet?

[EU_Foreigner]

I know what you are saying about the getting caught when using it, but why make a half hearted law when you could catch all with a proper system of "car insurance" rather then "person insurance"?

[oldsoak]

EU_Foreigner said:

I know what you are saying about the getting caught when using it, but why make a half hearted law when you could catch all with a proper system of "car insurance" rather then "person insurance"?

I'm not going around that particular roundabout again.

[Richard C]

oldsoak said:

At the moment you have to be caught driving an uninsured vehicle.

Since when are vehicles insured. At the moment a policy may be bought that entitles a driver sometimes including others to drive a vehicle. I am permitted to drive another's vehicle that carries a current tax disk on my insurance.

[saaby93]

oldsoak said:

Christ on a bike...They do that now.... but up until now if that car was kept on private property Plod had to catch them using it...now they don't...geddit yet?

how do they get them for having a SORNed car off road?
Surely they have to catch them usng it on road = same as now

[oldsoak]

Richard C said:

oldsoak said:

At the moment you have to be caught driving an uninsured vehicle.

Since when are vehicles insured. At the moment a policy may be bought that entitles a driver sometimes including others to drive a vehicle. I am permitted to drive another's vehicle that carries a current tax disk on my insurance.

I'd look at my policy again if I were you...
http://www.life-assurance-bureau.co.uk/car-insuran...

[oldsoak]

saaby93 said:

oldsoak said:

Christ on a bike...They do that now.... but up until now if that car was kept on private property Plod had to catch them using it...now they don't...geddit yet?

how do they get them for having a SORNed car off road?
Surely they have to catch them usng it on road = same as now

Now I know you're being obtuse...THEY DON'T get them for having a SORNed car off road....they 'get' them for having an UNINSURED SORN'ed car.
I'm taking the dog out for some fresh air before I blow a fuse

[Noger]

EU_Foreigner said:

I know what you are saying about the getting caught when using it, but why make a half hearted law when you could catch all with a proper system of "car insurance" rather then "person insurance"?

Like the Jersey WID ? Still doesn't insure the vehicle, just shows that someone has insured it.

Much like the french vingette, the idea that this confers insurance to any driver is incorrect.

[Nick_F]

oldsoak said:

saaby93 said:

oldsoak said:

Christ on a bike...They do that now.... but up until now if that car was kept on private property Plod had to catch them using it...now they don't...geddit yet?

how do they get them for having a SORNed car off road?
Surely they have to catch them usng it on road = same as now

Now I know you're being obtuse...THEY DON'T get them for having a SORNed car off road....they 'get' them for having an UNINSURED SORN'ed car.
I'm taking the dog out for some fresh air before I blow a fuse

I repeat: under the new rules someone who has declared SORN will still have to be caught driving in order to be prosecuted. No change.

[saaby93]

oldsoak said:

Now I know you're being obtuse...THEY DON'T get them for having a SORNed car off road....they 'get' them for having an UNINSURED SORN'ed car.

It says they'll be exempt if uninsured and SORNed

It said:

Implementation of the new rules in 2011 will allow those drivers who are not currently using their cars, and have left them uninsured for one year, to seek exemption by sorting out off-road storage and make a "statutory off-road notification" (Sorn). They will then also be exempted from vehicle tax. Those who already have a Sorn in place can continue to use this.

oldsoak said:

I'm taking the dog out for some fresh air before I blow a fuse

feet up

[BigBob]

So, am I right in thinking that if you fail to SORN or forget to renew SORN you'll not only get the demand for £80.00 but also a fine/points for no insurance?


BB