Continuous Insurance crap
Discussion
saaby93 said:
Won't they merely be registered as SORN? Besides all the ANPR stops Ive seen have collected those who have insurance but not registered to a particular car so theyre pulled but with a happy smiley PC who knows that theyll have insurance
It looks more like a Con rather than Pro
It looks more like a Con rather than Pro
ZOLLAR said:
Yes i suppose that there is a chance that people who have sorned a car will drive uninsured but they will be picked up by ANPR, what i'm saying is that continous insurance will deter alot of the "chancer uninsured drivers" people who arn't sure of how the new system works and will put them off from trying.
As i said the new system won't totally eradicate uninsured driver it will reduce them, there is no foolprrof system to stop uninsured driver but that dosn't mean we shouldn't try.
As i said the new system won't totally eradicate uninsured driver it will reduce them, there is no foolprrof system to stop uninsured driver but that dosn't mean we shouldn't try.
saaby93 said:
That's not a Pro it goes in the Con camp
Putting aside those who dont have or cant be bothered to have online access and assuming you can unsorn for a few days rather than a month
Normally it's a quick phone call to insurer to take it out, will this be the same for SORN?
If it becomes easier not to bother ( and as you say there are few ANPRs about) its going to encourage more uninsured use
Putting aside those who dont have or cant be bothered to have online access and assuming you can unsorn for a few days rather than a month
Normally it's a quick phone call to insurer to take it out, will this be the same for SORN?
If it becomes easier not to bother ( and as you say there are few ANPRs about) its going to encourage more uninsured use
ZOLLAR said:
you'll need to speak to the DVLA regarding that service but as with anything in the market if there is a gap in it and a chance to make money there will be a product released to capitalise on it.
Getragdogleg said:
SS2. said:
Getragdogleg said:
What hoops do I have to jump through regarding my taxed, Mot'd but not insured car when the insurances runs out ?
One hoop - make a SORN declaration.Getragdogleg said:
How ?
By post or online.Getragdogleg said:
And why ?
To avoid falling foul of the pending legislative amendments regarding continuous insurance.Getragdogleg said:
Why the f
k should I ?
See above.k should I ?Getragdogleg said:
Especially when I am also NOT breaking the law at all and NOT using a car uninsured.
The new 'offence' will not be using a vehicle without insurance, it will be keeping a vehicle without insurance.ZOLLAR said:
Yes i suppose that there is a chance that people who have sorned a car will drive uninsured but they will be picked up by ANPR, what i'm saying is that continous insurance will deter alot of the "chancer uninsured drivers" people who arn't sure of how the new system works and will put them off from trying.
As i said the new system won't totally eradicate uninsured driver it will reduce them, there is no foolprrof system to stop uninsured driver but that dosn't mean we shouldn't try.
As i said the new system won't totally eradicate uninsured driver it will reduce them, there is no foolprrof system to stop uninsured driver but that dosn't mean we shouldn't try.
ZOLLAR said:
you'll need to speak to the DVLA regarding that service but as with anything in the market if there is a gap in it and a chance to make money there will be a product released to capitalise on it.
Unfortunately I think youve proved my point 
saaby93 said:
ZOLLAR said:
Yes i suppose that there is a chance that people who have sorned a car will drive uninsured but they will be picked up by ANPR, what i'm saying is that continous insurance will deter alot of the "chancer uninsured drivers" people who arn't sure of how the new system works and will put them off from trying.
As i said the new system won't totally eradicate uninsured driver it will reduce them, there is no foolprrof system to stop uninsured driver but that dosn't mean we shouldn't try.
As i said the new system won't totally eradicate uninsured driver it will reduce them, there is no foolprrof system to stop uninsured driver but that dosn't mean we shouldn't try.
ZOLLAR said:
you'll need to speak to the DVLA regarding that service but as with anything in the market if there is a gap in it and a chance to make money there will be a product released to capitalise on it.
Unfortunately I think youve proved my point Getragdogleg said:
In this day and age of technology spying on our every move I fail to see why I have to spend my time and brainache filling in forms to tell them I am NOT doing something.
Especially when I am also NOT breaking the law at all and NOT using a car uninsured.
The problem is uninsured cars being used on the road, so target them, catch the ones on the road.
Next I will be expected to fill in a form saying I don't plan on speeding or murdering any DVLA officails or breaking the law at all.
This is nothing more than a shallow revenue earning project, the boogie man of uninsured drivers has been overstated by the manipulation of statistics with the intention of making ordinary joe public comply with yet more intrusive petty regulation.
Catch people actually doing a crime, don't rely on a primitive infringement method that alienates yet more law abiding people.
Precisely - well said Getragdogleg. Especially when I am also NOT breaking the law at all and NOT using a car uninsured.
The problem is uninsured cars being used on the road, so target them, catch the ones on the road.
Next I will be expected to fill in a form saying I don't plan on speeding or murdering any DVLA officails or breaking the law at all.
This is nothing more than a shallow revenue earning project, the boogie man of uninsured drivers has been overstated by the manipulation of statistics with the intention of making ordinary joe public comply with yet more intrusive petty regulation.
Catch people actually doing a crime, don't rely on a primitive infringement method that alienates yet more law abiding people.
This is a huge bureaucratic money-wasting exercise, which will be be funded by the motorists who are slightly slipshod about their paperwork. And the extra effort required to remain legal will be counted into the millions of man-days each year.
The police know who the uninsured drivers are, but they are too busy/too hamstrung by PC-ness/can't be arsed to go and catch them. An ANPR set-up by any largish road in London, Birmingham, Luton, Leicester, Blackburn etc will catch them by the thousands - like shooting fish in a barrel - but is too much like hard work compared to sitting in a warm office pushing paperwork around.
This process is flawed in the extreme. The fact that the majority of drivers who don't have insurance also don't register their cars in their own name, or to their own address, seems to have escaped the policy-makers' attention.
This is nothing more than another milepost on the UK's sad decline into a mire of bureaucracy, which will achieve nothing other than pissing-off those the authorities need to keep on their side. And those who are saying "Stop fussing, it's no big deal - only five minutes a year"; you really need to see the bigger picture.
Oli.
zcacogp said:
An ANPR set-up by any largish road in London, Birmingham, Luton, Leicester, Blackburn etc will catch them by the thousands - like shooting fish in a barrel - but is too much like hard work compared to sitting in a warm office pushing paperwork around.
As said earlier it doesnt work like that.Most ANPR insurance stops are where the vehicle is showing up no insurance but the driver has insurance to drive it
Most insurance issues are where the car is insured but the driver isnt covered to drive it
SS2 said:
The new 'offence' will not be using a vehicle without insurance, it will be keeping a vehicle without insurance.
Great, another "new" offence.It is not needed. It is a revenue generating plan that will do nothing for road safety, it may catch a few uninsured drivers but to be honest these types are not likely to fill in a SORN or give a s
t, they probably won't pay the fine either, once again its the people like me who try to do the right thing that will get fined when the reminder does not arrive or they are on holiday when it expires or they are too busy trying to earn a living to pay for all this crap.So the new offence is nothing to do with driving, its a faiure to fill out paperwork offence. Great, I can break the law sat on my ass doing nothing sitting still in my own front room now.
So, when i decide to take my 2nd car out for the day, all i have to do is take my first car to the post office and cue up for a tax disc. Then go home and get my insurance activated.
At the end of the day i will have to get back in the other car and go back to the post office to cash my brand new tax disc back in and fill in the sorn paperwork. I assume that at some point (if not already) there will be additional charges for filing these forms too.
I think this will work flawlessly and there won't be any people getting their classic cars towed away and losing their licenses on technicalities. no sirree.
At the end of the day i will have to get back in the other car and go back to the post office to cash my brand new tax disc back in and fill in the sorn paperwork. I assume that at some point (if not already) there will be additional charges for filing these forms too.
I think this will work flawlessly and there won't be any people getting their classic cars towed away and losing their licenses on technicalities. no sirree.
Getragdogleg said:
So the new offence is nothing to do with driving, its a faiure to fill out paperwork offence. Great, I can break the law sat on my ass doing nothing sitting still in my own front room now.
Or you can avoid the hassle (and £100 FPN) by taking 60 seconds out of your life to make an online SORN declaration.
ZOLLAR said:
Nigel Worc's said:
gareth_r said:
I hate all this legislation that penalises everyone for the actions of a few.
Time was were assumed to be law-abiding and "they" had to prove otherwise... now there are more and more situations where the premise is that we have to prove our innocence in advance.
I think Gareth has it about right, along with the post that says most uninsured incidents seem to be incorrect insurance for the driver (on some technicality or other), rather than the car isn't insuredTime was were assumed to be law-abiding and "they" had to prove otherwise... now there are more and more situations where the premise is that we have to prove our innocence in advance.
Edited by gareth_r on Friday 3rd December 09:02
Still it's another way to fine the generally law abiding ...... I thought this coalition government was hoping to put a stop to this crap !
You can say "oh well they can make a claim through the MIB" but believe me that isn't an easy or quick process.
In 2003 I was hit by an uninsured driver, a young lad driving his fathers car, with his fathers permission, but not a named driver on his fathers policy, and without any coverage from his own insurance on his own car.
For whatever reason, the fathers insurer declined the claim ...... and it took me 3 years to obtain payment from the MIB.
The solicitor provided by my insurance company to deal with the whole incident thought this was parr for the course ...... at that time ..... things may have changed now.
I doubt there will be any benefit to the vast majority of us, I'll wager more people will be fined for not playing dvla's latest paperwork excercise, people who until now aren't breaking the law, than genuine law breakers will be caught.
Shuvi Tupya said:
So, when i decide to take my 2nd car out for the day, all i have to do is take my first car to the post office and cue up for a tax disc. Then go home and get my insurance activated.
You'd need insurance in place before you could tax it. Shuvi Tupya said:
At the end of the day i will have to get back in the other car and go back to the post office to cash my brand new tax disc back in and fill in the sorn paperwork.
Other than the option of doing it by post, that's no different to what you have to do currently.Shuvi Tupya said:
So, when i decide to take my 2nd car out for the day, all i have to do is take my first car to the post office and cue up for a tax disc. Then go home and get my insurance activated.
At the end of the day i will have to get back in the other car and go back to the post office to cash my brand new tax disc back in and fill in the sorn paperwork. I assume that at some point (if not already) there will be additional charges for filing these forms too.
I think this will work flawlessly and there won't be any people getting their classic cars towed away and losing their licenses on technicalities. no sirree.
Absolutely.At the end of the day i will have to get back in the other car and go back to the post office to cash my brand new tax disc back in and fill in the sorn paperwork. I assume that at some point (if not already) there will be additional charges for filing these forms too.
I think this will work flawlessly and there won't be any people getting their classic cars towed away and losing their licenses on technicalities. no sirree.
I run a fleet of around 14 trucks/vans/pickups. not all are in use all the time due to the seasonal nature of our work. I have to add and subtract vehicles from the fleet insurance as we use them, we tax them and MoT them all year round except the ones we only use for a few months a year, then we cash the tax in until we need it, then it gets SORN, add to this my collection of 6 cars, my fathers collection of 4 on the road cars and 30 odd off road SORN'd cars and our daily driver cars and it all gets a bit complicated managing all the SORN, We have three box files and a list on the wall, and we drop a ball sometimes.
That ball drop is breaking the law, unintentional but there it is, I am a criminal sometimes, petty regulation has made me into a criminal no better than a robber or a mugger but more easy to extract money from.
Noger said:
saaby93 said:
Most insurance issues are where the car is insured but the driver isnt covered to drive it
But then the RTA would require the insurer to pay. Your usual blind spot when it comes to shrieking about uninsured driving.It bolsters the uninsured driver figures and hence the proposal on the table to fix the wrong thing.
Nigel Worc's said:
I doubt there will be any benefit to the vast majority of us, I'll wager more people will be fined for not playing dvla's latest paperwork excercise, people who until now aren't breaking the law, than genuine law breakers will be caught.
Nigel Worc's said:
ZOLLAR said:
Nigel Worc's said:
gareth_r said:
I hate all this legislation that penalises everyone for the actions of a few.
Time was were assumed to be law-abiding and "they" had to prove otherwise... now there are more and more situations where the premise is that we have to prove our innocence in advance.
I think Gareth has it about right, along with the post that says most uninsured incidents seem to be incorrect insurance for the driver (on some technicality or other), rather than the car isn't insuredTime was were assumed to be law-abiding and "they" had to prove otherwise... now there are more and more situations where the premise is that we have to prove our innocence in advance.
Edited by gareth_r on Friday 3rd December 09:02
Still it's another way to fine the generally law abiding ...... I thought this coalition government was hoping to put a stop to this crap !
You can say "oh well they can make a claim through the MIB" but believe me that isn't an easy or quick process.
In 2003 I was hit by an uninsured driver, a young lad driving his fathers car, with his fathers permission, but not a named driver on his fathers policy, and without any coverage from his own insurance on his own car.
For whatever reason, the fathers insurer declined the claim ...... and it took me 3 years to obtain payment from the MIB.
The solicitor provided by my insurance company to deal with the whole incident thought this was parr for the course ...... at that time ..... things may have changed now.
I doubt there will be any benefit to the vast majority of us, I'll wager more people will be fined for not playing dvla's latest paperwork excercise, people who until now aren't breaking the law, than genuine law breakers will be caught.
Edited by ZOLLAR on Friday 3rd December 10:45
saaby93 said:
Noger said:
Getragdogleg said:
man of uninsured drivers has been overstated by the manipulation of statistics with the intention of making ordinary joe public comply with yet more intrusive petty regulation.
How ?How many knowingly uninsured drivers are there that this will solve?
That's excepting those drivers who think theyre insured but technically arent
i.e. the ones driving a mates car or wifey driving hubbys etc
Then to counterbalance
How many cars taxed but uninsured off road are there - eg the post above waiting to sell car which will now require insurance (or be declared SORN)
The proposed legislation is all there in black and white, I suggest you (and others) go and read it ? That way you really do get the big picture. Rather than just your own view.
It is "just 5 minutes" but I don't think it will do what it is intending to do. THAT is the big picture.
SS2. said:
Getragdogleg said:
So the new offence is nothing to do with driving, its a faiure to fill out paperwork offence. Great, I can break the law sat on my ass doing nothing sitting still in my own front room now.
Or you can avoid the hassle (and £100 FPN) by taking 60 seconds out of your life to make an online SORN declaration.I agree,its only 60 seconds, but why should I give 60 seconds of mine for a piece of legislation that is flawed and is obviouly going to make money from those who forget or fail to fill out the bloody form each year.
It will only get those whose details are correct anyway.
Getragdogleg said:
..and it all gets a bit complicated managing all the SORN,
If you manage to ensure that all of the vehicles are insured when they need to be, then is it really that difficult, when you remove one from the fleet policy, to declare that vehicle as SORN ?Getragdogleg said:
We have three box files and a list on the wall..
Perhaps the list on the wall would benefit from an extra column when the CIE legislation is commenced.. 
SS2. said:
Getragdogleg said:
..and it all gets a bit complicated managing all the SORN,
If you manage to ensure that all of the vehicles are insured when they need to be, then is it really that difficult, when you remove one from the fleet policy, to declare that vehicle as SORN ?Getragdogleg said:
We have three box files and a list on the wall..
Perhaps the list on the wall would benefit from an extra column when the CIE legislation is commenced.. I don't want to.
I don't want to have to do more paperwork, even more so now I realise its failing to do the paperwork that I could get in trouble for.
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