Driver panicked when spotted camera van

[vonhosen]

Exige77 said:

vonhosen said:

They have already been caught driving illegally if they were speeding.

Their driving wasn't illegal their speed was.

If they were banned from driving and were caught driving then they would be driving illegally no ?

Ex77

Their manner of driving was illegal.

[vonhosen]

XDA said:

vonhosen said:

ant leigh said:

Exige77 said:

Information freely available on Google but tends to be county specific.

I can tell you over 7,000,000 motorists have been convicted for speeding in the last 4 years.

Maybe you don't know any of them or they were all stopped by Panda cars.

That's a significant amount.

Ex77

Thats around half a billion quid.
Would be interesting to know how many lives would be saved investing that amount of money in, for example, the health service, or on actual road layout changes to improve safety.

You've got to raise it to spend it. Money from cameras goes to government & they can spend it on what they like.

Money from fines also makes it way to ACPO Plc and RSS Ltd.

Can you show the path of that money ?

[Red 4]

Exige77 said:

vonhosen said:

They have already been caught driving illegally if they were speeding.

Their driving wasn't illegal their speed was.

Ex77

Eh ? Come again

[XDA]

vonhosen said:

Exige77 said:

Devil2575 said:

Exige77 said:

Doesn't seem to be working as record numbers of people are being caught.

Are they?

When speed cameras first appeared I know lots of people that got caught. However it's been quite a while since anyone I know said they had points.

Are we immagining it then ?

Ex77

The stats will tell you the facts.
But even if they showed numbers of prosecutions increasing that wouldn't necessarily support your argument, because the increase could be the result of other factors, such as greater efficiency in identifying & catching speeders whilst the number of speeders had fallen. You have to look deeper than the headline.

The figures have been rising year on year. How many further years are we expected to wait until they drop? Another 10 years?

Road deaths are rising so what are scameras actually achieving other then revenue generation?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/news/8867072/R...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-18881049

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2012/sep/2...

The numbers caught speeding increases. The numbers of deaths increases.

[XDA]

vonhosen said:

XDA said:

vonhosen said:

ant leigh said:

Exige77 said:

Information freely available on Google but tends to be county specific.

I can tell you over 7,000,000 motorists have been convicted for speeding in the last 4 years.

Maybe you don't know any of them or they were all stopped by Panda cars.

That's a significant amount.

Ex77

Thats around half a billion quid.
Would be interesting to know how many lives would be saved investing that amount of money in, for example, the health service, or on actual road layout changes to improve safety.

You've got to raise it to spend it. Money from cameras goes to government & they can spend it on what they like.

Money from fines also makes it way to ACPO Plc and RSS Ltd.

Can you show the path of that money ?

Via NDORS.

[vonhosen]

XDA said:

vonhosen said:

Exige77 said:

Devil2575 said:

Exige77 said:

Doesn't seem to be working as record numbers of people are being caught.

Are they?

When speed cameras first appeared I know lots of people that got caught. However it's been quite a while since anyone I know said they had points.

Are we immagining it then ?

Ex77

The stats will tell you the facts.
But even if they showed numbers of prosecutions increasing that wouldn't necessarily support your argument, because the increase could be the result of other factors, such as greater efficiency in identifying & catching speeders whilst the number of speeders had fallen. You have to look deeper than the headline.

The figures have been rising year on year. How many further years are we expected to wait until they drop? Another 10 years?

Road deaths are rising so what are scameras actually achieving other then revenue generation?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/news/8867072/R...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-18881049

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2012/sep/2...

The numbers caught speeding increases. The numbers of deaths increases.

The trend with deaths is down, as your article says 'first rise in 5 years'. Trends are more important than isolated anomalies.

[vonhosen]

XDA said:

vonhosen said:

XDA said:

vonhosen said:

ant leigh said:

Exige77 said:

Information freely available on Google but tends to be county specific.

I can tell you over 7,000,000 motorists have been convicted for speeding in the last 4 years.

Maybe you don't know any of them or they were all stopped by Panda cars.

That's a significant amount.

Ex77

Thats around half a billion quid.
Would be interesting to know how many lives would be saved investing that amount of money in, for example, the health service, or on actual road layout changes to improve safety.

You've got to raise it to spend it. Money from cameras goes to government & they can spend it on what they like.

Money from fines also makes it way to ACPO Plc and RSS Ltd.

Can you show the path of that money ?

Via NDORS.

You need to look up what a fine is then. They aren't fines.

[XDA]

vonhosen said:

XDA said:

vonhosen said:

Exige77 said:

Devil2575 said:

Exige77 said:

Doesn't seem to be working as record numbers of people are being caught.

Are they?

When speed cameras first appeared I know lots of people that got caught. However it's been quite a while since anyone I know said they had points.

Are we immagining it then ?

Ex77

The stats will tell you the facts.
But even if they showed numbers of prosecutions increasing that wouldn't necessarily support your argument, because the increase could be the result of other factors, such as greater efficiency in identifying & catching speeders whilst the number of speeders had fallen. You have to look deeper than the headline.

The figures have been rising year on year. How many further years are we expected to wait until they drop? Another 10 years?

Road deaths are rising so what are scameras actually achieving other then revenue generation?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/news/8867072/R...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-18881049

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2012/sep/2...

The numbers caught speeding increases. The numbers of deaths increases.

The trend with deaths is down, as your article says 'first rise in 5 years'. Trends are more important than isolated anomalies.

Deaths may be down nationally, but individual areas have seen rises. Dig deeper into the figures and it suggests that the level has remained static despite a rise in speeding fines.

"First rise in 5 years" at a time when speeding fines are at a record high?

[vonhosen]

XDA said:

vonhosen said:

XDA said:

vonhosen said:

Exige77 said:

Devil2575 said:

Exige77 said:

Doesn't seem to be working as record numbers of people are being caught.

Are they?

When speed cameras first appeared I know lots of people that got caught. However it's been quite a while since anyone I know said they had points.

Are we immagining it then ?

Ex77

The stats will tell you the facts.
But even if they showed numbers of prosecutions increasing that wouldn't necessarily support your argument, because the increase could be the result of other factors, such as greater efficiency in identifying & catching speeders whilst the number of speeders had fallen. You have to look deeper than the headline.

The figures have been rising year on year. How many further years are we expected to wait until they drop? Another 10 years?

Road deaths are rising so what are scameras actually achieving other then revenue generation?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/news/8867072/R...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-18881049

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2012/sep/2...

The numbers caught speeding increases. The numbers of deaths increases.

The trend with deaths is down, as your article says 'first rise in 5 years'. Trends are more important than isolated anomalies.

Deaths may be down nationally, but individual areas have seen rises. Dig deeper into the figures and it suggests that the level has remained static despite a rise in speeding fines.

"First rise in 5 years" at a time when speeding fines are at a record high?

Yes, because it isn't simplistic, as I said earlier.
For me it boils down to are we better with speed limits or without. On balance I think we are better with them & I accept that naturally means enforcement of said limit, because without that they're pointless (no pun intended).

[XDA]

vonhosen said:

XDA said:

vonhosen said:

XDA said:

vonhosen said:

ant leigh said:

Exige77 said:

Information freely available on Google but tends to be county specific.

I can tell you over 7,000,000 motorists have been convicted for speeding in the last 4 years.

Maybe you don't know any of them or they were all stopped by Panda cars.

That's a significant amount.

Ex77

Thats around half a billion quid.
Would be interesting to know how many lives would be saved investing that amount of money in, for example, the health service, or on actual road layout changes to improve safety.

You've got to raise it to spend it. Money from cameras goes to government & they can spend it on what they like.

Money from fines also makes it way to ACPO Plc and RSS Ltd.

Can you show the path of that money ?

Via NDORS.

You need to look up what a fine is then. They aren't fines.

here?

Edited by XDA on Monday 14th January 18:24

[XDA]

vonhosen said:

XDA said:

vonhosen said:

XDA said:

vonhosen said:

Exige77 said:

Devil2575 said:

Exige77 said:

Doesn't seem to be working as record numbers of people are being caught.

Are they?

When speed cameras first appeared I know lots of people that got caught. However it's been quite a while since anyone I know said they had points.

Are we immagining it then ?

Ex77

The stats will tell you the facts.
But even if they showed numbers of prosecutions increasing that wouldn't necessarily support your argument, because the increase could be the result of other factors, such as greater efficiency in identifying & catching speeders whilst the number of speeders had fallen. You have to look deeper than the headline.

The figures have been rising year on year. How many further years are we expected to wait until they drop? Another 10 years?

Road deaths are rising so what are scameras actually achieving other then revenue generation?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/news/8867072/R...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-18881049

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2012/sep/2...

The numbers caught speeding increases. The numbers of deaths increases.

The trend with deaths is down, as your article says 'first rise in 5 years'. Trends are more important than isolated anomalies.

Deaths may be down nationally, but individual areas have seen rises. Dig deeper into the figures and it suggests that the level has remained static despite a rise in speeding fines.

"First rise in 5 years" at a time when speeding fines are at a record high?

Yes, because it isn't simplistic, as I said earlier.
For me it boils down to are we better with speed limits or without. On balance I think we are better with them & I accept that naturally means enforcement of said limit, because without that they're pointless (no pun intended).

I'm not saying we shouldn't have speed limits. People who speed should be dealt with.

So what is the enforcement actually achieving then?

[vonhosen]

XDA said:

vonhosen said:

XDA said:

vonhosen said:

XDA said:

vonhosen said:

ant leigh said:

Exige77 said:

Information freely available on Google but tends to be county specific.

I can tell you over 7,000,000 motorists have been convicted for speeding in the last 4 years.

Maybe you don't know any of them or they were all stopped by Panda cars.

That's a significant amount.

Ex77

Thats around half a billion quid.
Would be interesting to know how many lives would be saved investing that amount of money in, for example, the health service, or on actual road layout changes to improve safety.

You've got to raise it to spend it. Money from cameras goes to government & they can spend it on what they like.

Money from fines also makes it way to ACPO Plc and RSS Ltd.

Can you show the path of that money ?

Via NDORS.

You need to look up what a fine is then. They aren't fines.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1151906/Now-Police-Chiefs-PLC-cashes-speeding-drivers.html

Yes

From your linked article

Daily Mail said:

The Association of Chief Police Officers (ACPO) has told all police forces that from April hundreds of thousands of motorists should be sent on Speed Awareness Schemes rather than receiving penalty points and fines.

1) It's not a fine.
2) Money from fines goes to government.
3) Diversion to training away from prosecution is as a result of government wishes.

Edited by vonhosen on Monday 14th January 18:24

[vonhosen]

XDA said:

vonhosen said:

XDA said:

vonhosen said:

XDA said:

vonhosen said:

Exige77 said:

Devil2575 said:

Exige77 said:

Doesn't seem to be working as record numbers of people are being caught.

Are they?

When speed cameras first appeared I know lots of people that got caught. However it's been quite a while since anyone I know said they had points.

Are we immagining it then ?

Ex77

The stats will tell you the facts.
But even if they showed numbers of prosecutions increasing that wouldn't necessarily support your argument, because the increase could be the result of other factors, such as greater efficiency in identifying & catching speeders whilst the number of speeders had fallen. You have to look deeper than the headline.

The figures have been rising year on year. How many further years are we expected to wait until they drop? Another 10 years?

Road deaths are rising so what are scameras actually achieving other then revenue generation?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/news/8867072/R...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-18881049

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2012/sep/2...

The numbers caught speeding increases. The numbers of deaths increases.

The trend with deaths is down, as your article says 'first rise in 5 years'. Trends are more important than isolated anomalies.

Deaths may be down nationally, but individual areas have seen rises. Dig deeper into the figures and it suggests that the level has remained static despite a rise in speeding fines.

"First rise in 5 years" at a time when speeding fines are at a record high?

Yes, because it isn't simplistic, as I said earlier.
For me it boils down to are we better with speed limits or without. On balance I think we are better with them & I accept that naturally means enforcement of said limit, because without that they're pointless (no pun intended).

I'm not saying we shouldn't have speed limits. People who speed should be dealt with.

So what is the enforcement actually achieving then?

It's the limits that are there to aid safety, the cameras are there to enforce that limit.
If you think we should have limits then we must have enforcement. They go hand in hand.
No enforcement & there is no point having the limits.

[BertBert]

vonhosen said:

It's the limits that are there to aid safetys.

Trouble is that they are failing. Speed limits as a risk reduction measure is fine. However, they have become commoditised. Hardly anyone is interested in observing them. Because:-

a/ the enforcement has removed the respect there used to be
b/ the absurd lowering of the limits has removed the respect there used to be.

People are just concerned with whether they get stung or not (as shown by a billion pages of this thread). Not whether observing a speed limit is a responsible proper thing to do.

Bert

[vonhosen]

BertBert said:

vonhosen said:

It's the limits that are there to aid safetys.

Trouble is that they are failing. Speed limits as a risk reduction measure is fine. However, they have become commoditised. Hardly anyone is interested in observing them. Because:-

a/ the enforcement has removed the respect there used to be
b/ the absurd lowering of the limits has removed the respect there used to be.

People are just concerned with whether they get stung or not (as shown by a billion pages of this thread). Not whether observing a speed limit is a responsible proper thing to do.

Bert

Risk reduction measure is an aid to safety.
I don't believe hardly anyone is interested in observing them.
I believe that the vast majority of driver's speed choice is influenced by them. Even those who choose to exceed them, because when they do so they tend to set themselves an amount that they won't go above the limit, as such the limit is influencing their choice of speed.

[Vipers]

BertBert said:

vonhosen said:

It's the limits that are there to aid safetys.

Trouble is that they are failing. Speed limits as a risk reduction measure is fine. However, they have become commoditised. Hardly anyone is interested in observing them.

Bert

Really, I bet there are an awful lot of drivers out there, me included who do abide by the posted limits. Maybe that is why in over 40 years of driving, I have never had a ticket, not only for exceeding the speed limits, but for nothing else either.

And before someone asks, yes I keep up with the posted limits conditions allowing, I don't doodle around at 40 everywhere I go.

[Devil2575]

vonhosen said:

XDA said:

vonhosen said:

Exige77 said:

Devil2575 said:

Exige77 said:

Doesn't seem to be working as record numbers of people are being caught.

Are they?

When speed cameras first appeared I know lots of people that got caught. However it's been quite a while since anyone I know said they had points.

Are we immagining it then ?

Ex77

The stats will tell you the facts.
But even if they showed numbers of prosecutions increasing that wouldn't necessarily support your argument, because the increase could be the result of other factors, such as greater efficiency in identifying & catching speeders whilst the number of speeders had fallen. You have to look deeper than the headline.

The figures have been rising year on year. How many further years are we expected to wait until they drop? Another 10 years?

Road deaths are rising so what are scameras actually achieving other then revenue generation?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/news/8867072/R...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-18881049

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2012/sep/2...

The numbers caught speeding increases. The numbers of deaths increases.

The trend with deaths is down, as your article says 'first rise in 5 years'. Trends are more important than isolated anomalies.

Indeed. There was a small increase last year on the previous year but as Von says, trends are much more important that single data points. I'd go as far to say that i'd ignore a single point until I had collected more data. There will be natural fluctuations in all data that could be due to any number of external factors. The weather for example.

[10 Pence Short]

Could it be a sensible analysis that the overtake itself, on face value of the evidence available, may not have been careless, but the reaction to the camera van was?

[Pothole]

10 Pence Short said:

Could it be a sensible analysis that the overtake itself, on face value of the evidence available, may not have been careless, but the reaction to the camera van was?

it could, but I think this thread has moved way beyond sensible!

[dazco]

Pothole said:

dazco said:

hey look

regarding the comment from George in Leeds It was not a puddle it was a heat haze,I know because I was one of the back riders . It was not a set up we were just on our way home from Skegness with learner riders. And what you dont see is the gap between the last 2 bikes which we left for him because he had been very intimidating for miles . he was so intent on passing he didn't see the speed trap.
- wendyre , notts, United Kingdom, 11/1/2013 09:32

not someone I would trust to teach others if he finds cars behind him 'intimidating'.

Are you kidding?

he has his position to maintain and the responsibility for all the learners.

He is on a two wheeled device that is easily knocked over and WILL subject him to great pain.

He is an instructor , not Chuck fking Norris.