Set the pace - Make the commitment
Discussion
vonhosen said:
It doesn't take long to glance at the speedo, just like it doesn't to glance in the mirrors.
One is a necessary check, the other isnt, so why do it?
I consider being aware of the amount of speed one is carrying a necessary check.
In relation to overtakes ....see my post above.
It becomes a non issue if having checked your speed before commencing the overtake, you aren't going.
Have not read through all this..
But back to that other thread und my acceleration out of danger
I overtook some cars - towing .. tootling along in L1 at 60 mph. I was at 69 mph cruise und was passing .. was completing the final one und looking to return to L1 to gap per plan.
Behind .. car - cop car approaching at high speed .. 30 mph differential und closing fast. I accelerated to above speed limit to reach the gap und thus complete for brisk safety led..
Per vonhosen.. I would have been "safer" to drop at least 20 mph off speed so that I could slide back car und caravan length und move in behind this vehicle so that "I would have remained at legal limit instead of speeding up by about 8 mph to 78/79 mph to get out of way und nip to gap giving overtakee 4 seconds behind und being about 4 or 5 seconds from car pulling ahead in L1 ahead of us .. und then easing off.
You plan und adjust to how the traffic ist at that second.. und to reduce speed would have been dangerous in that situation... Emergency vehicle was not easing off at all.. I had no guarantee he would stop und reduce speed ... he was closing beyond stopping distance anyway.. I do not take that kind of risk. I look to stay alive.
As for the Cheshire thing.. I observed a Cheshire cop the otheer week whilst down there .. overtake on double whites.. causing on-coming traffic to swerve to avoid und no attempt to even brake at a red light.
He was lit up und wailing to let people know he was there.. but he still drive like a reed misty eyed twazak...
7db said:
What a f king country!
Will you be leaving it any time soon?
Yes as it happens, cos of people like you making it uninhabitable for normal, decent folk to just get on with their lives due to constant interference.
Im sure youll be very happy with your new speed camera, anpr, specs cams, community morons and ID cards all monitoring your "safety" and wiping your ass for you while the real crimes perpertrated against you go unpunished, but you dont see that far cos your heads stuck too far up your own ample backside.
Its a thin end of a very fat wedge.
The price of all this crap is only your freedom, its not like you actually need it or care about it, and thats what pisses me off about idiots like yourself is that some other poor bastard had to die for it so you can spout complete shat!
You want it, you got it.
7db said:
If four people queue to buy a doughnut & the one at the back is too impatient to wait the short reasonable time to get theirs & decides to push in, who is causing the problem ?
On the bright side at least two of them will be policemen...
That's why I picked a doughnut. I was going to put some fresh fruit, but then someone would come back saying but a Police officer wouldn't be there to see it anyway.
BliarOut said:
Ity could be argued that looking at your speedo during an overtake IS DWDCA.
Why ?
Simple if you think about it. If I took my eyes off the road to look at the radio and had a crash it's DWDCA. What's the difference if I take my eyes off the road to look at the speedo?
Hint, none. I'm still not watching for hazards while my eyes are inside the car.
Speedo gawping is dangerous and not taught on any advanced driving system I am aware of.
Why do you need to gawp at it ?
It doesn't take long to glance at the speedo, just like it doesn't to glance in the mirrors.
The required information can be gained in a fraction of a second. You'll be saying best not blink when driving next.
In advanced driving you are expected to know your speed.
>> Edited by vonhosen on Saturday 25th March 22:15
Eyes outside the car.
Ist true von ..why I suggest you come to Lancs.. cover up speedo und tell everyone about your day in court for slight overpseedy tot up
Ist not enough to "feel" speed in some areas. Lancs ist especially tight.. Steve ist submarinated catnip by comparison
vonhosen said:
Now are we going to FORCE ordinary members of the public to drive constantly within the speed limits, and thereby limit their skills development BELOW the levels currently enjoyed?
But this isn't happening on all our roads nationwide. It's only happening on a very samll proportion. Roads which are targeted & identified with cameras & which are well advertised as such. Elsewhere it's discretionary enforcement by Police officers.
It bloody well is happening. I see the effects of it. Skill levels are dropping. SURELY you have noticed?
vonhosen said:
The majority of roads I travel on & teach this craft have no cameras on.
But the drivers on those roads are used to driving on roads with cameras and to some greater or lesser extent are driving in fear of losing their licences.
WildCat said:
Ist true von ..why I suggest you come to Lancs.. cover up speedo und tell everyone about your day in court for slight overpseedy tot up
Ist not enough to "feel" speed in some areas. Lancs ist especially tight.. Steve ist submarinated catnip by comparison
But like I've said elsewhere. If it's safe for you to be travelling at the legal maximum, it's safe for you to periodically check your speedo (because by definition for you to be travellings afely at the maximum circumstances must be safe & favourable).
If circumstances are not favourable your speed should be sufficiently below the maximum that checking the speedo won't matter.
vonhosen said:
I consider the relative rates of closing with the vehicle im considering overtaking to be a hell of a lot more important than the numbers the speedo might indicate!!!
The numbers aint important unless you wish to drive to the very letter of the half assed law.
Mirrors necessary, speedo-nada. I should and do know but im not at liberty to tell you why.
I personally wouldn't be looking at the speedo during an overtake.
But I would still be periodically looking at my speedo, even if there weren't any speed limits, so that I would be aware of the speed I am carrying approaching situations.
I'm merely questioning the assertion that having a brief glance at teh speedo would amount to DWDCA.
You might if you note a little van with a little camera at Shap..
Of course - we all make the odd check to keep checks .. but there ist a danger in some areas that people are over-checking
Ist perhaps why Lancs - despite forest of Gatsos und a very good Speed COurse (sadly aimed at wrong audience per money making policy ) - recorded increase in KSI for first 8 months of 2006. The notorious internet troll made a big noise und own goal over this after proof of official COAST was posted up FOr .. this ist county with more cams than most 360 fixed und as many moibles apache said:
It might even represent incitement to commit careless driving, imho, which I think carries 3pts and a fine.
Huh? that's a law? never knew that
There's an endorsement code for it - I think that's a CD16. Possibly a CD12 - aiding, abetting, counselling or procuring.
But then I can't find a law for it at the moment. RTA just gives it to the driver. I could well be wrong.
safespeed said:
Skill levels are dropping. SURELY you have noticed?
You could easily blame ABS, traction control etc & the modern car for skill levels dropping. The modern car takes such a hand in keeping people on the road & is so forgiving, that people never develop good handling skills. They are less involved in the act of driving & it requires less concentration because of it in a modern car. Is that a bad thing ?
safespeed said:
The majority of roads I travel on & teach this craft have no cameras on.
But the drivers on those roads are used to driving on roads with cameras and to some greater or lesser extent are driving in fear of losing their licences.
But so few of our roads actually have cameras on. Why can't people observe the limits in these few areas & they have more discretion applied elsewhere ? Why make it so hard for themselves when a bit of common sense to where & when you use speed actually sees you OK ?
Or is it because common sense is actually not that common ?
>> Edited by vonhosen on Tuesday 11th April 23:16
Deltafox said:
What a f
Will you be leaving it any time soon?
Yes as it happens, cos of people like you making it uninhabitable for normal, decent folk to just get on with their lives due to constant interference.
Im sure youll be very happy with your new speed camera, anpr, specs cams, community morons and ID cards all monitoring your "safety" and wiping your ass for you while the real crimes perpertrated against you go unpunished, but you dont see that far cos your heads stuck too far up your own ample backside.
Its a thin end of a very fat wedge.
The price of all this crap is only your freedom, its not like you actually need it or care about it, and thats what pisses me off about idiots like yourself is that some other poor bastard had to die for it so you can spout complete shat!
You want it, you got it.
A reasonable, well balanced and thought through post.
One bit confused me, however, who are "people like me"?
7db said:
It might even represent incitement to commit careless driving, imho, which I think carries 3pts and a fine.
Huh? that's a law? never knew that
There's an endorsement code for it - I think that's a CD16. Possibly a CD12 - aiding, abetting, counselling or procuring.
But then I can't find a law for it at the moment. RTA just gives it to the driver. I could well be wrong.
It's for any offence.
For aiding, abetting, counselling & procuring just change the "0" at the end of the offence code for a "2"
Causing or permitting change the "0" for a "4"
Inciting chnage the "0" for a "6"
>> Edited by vonhosen on Tuesday 11th April 23:14
vonhosen said:
It might even represent incitement to commit careless driving, imho, which I think carries 3pts and a fine.
Huh? that's a law? never knew that
There's an endorsement code for it - I think that's a CD16. Possibly a CD12 - aiding, abetting, counselling or procuring.
But then I can't find a law for it at the moment. RTA just gives it to the driver. I could well be wrong.
It's for any offence.
For aiding, abetting, counselling & procuring just change the "0" at the end of the offence code for a "2"
Causing or permitting change the "0" for a "4"
Inciting chnage the "0" for a "6"
>> Edited by vonhosen on Tuesday 11th April 23:14
That's the code sorted -- where is the offence defined? S3 RTA is just for the driver...
vonhosen said:
Ist true von ..why I suggest you come to Lancs.. cover up speedo und tell everyone about your day in court for slight overpseedy tot up
Ist not enough to "feel" speed in some areas. Lancs ist especially tight.. Steve ist submarinated catnip by comparison
But like I've said elsewhere. If it's safe for you to be travelling at the legal maximum, it's safe for you to periodically check your speedo (because by definition for you to be travellings afely at the maximum circumstances must be safe & favourable).
If circumstances are not favourable your speed should be sufficiently below the maximum that checking the speedo won't matter.
You may find LanCASH££££re ist a little different.. When are you going to accept the challenge.
Und tell us how you enjoyed your day in court We know so many caught here.. ist why we bought useful gadgets .. just for this area We can feel speed.. we keep eye .. but we like to be assured we do not miss anything if driving around there. vonhosen said:
But so few of our roads actually have cameras on. Why can't people observe the limits in these few areas & they have more discretion applied elsewhere ? Why make it so hard for themselves when a bit of common sense to where & when you use speed actually sees you OK ?
Or is it because common sense is actually not that common ?
This is a change from the puritanical attitude you've shown to date. Are you saying that you condone drivers exceeding the speed limit (where it is safe to do so) as long as there are no speed cameras?
Edited to add: I appreciate that it's something that you might not choose to do yourself.
>> Edited by GreenV8S on Tuesday 11th April 23:31
vonhosen said:
Skill levels are dropping. SURELY you have noticed?
You could easily blame ABS, traction control etc & the modern car for skill levels dropping. The modern car takes such a hand in keeping people on the road & is so forgiving, that people never develop good handling skills. They are less involved in the act of driving & it requires less concentration because of it in a modern car. Is that a bad thing ?
In the 60s we got disc brakes and radial ply tyres. (etc)
In the 70s we got crumple zones and seat belts fitted. (etc)
In fact engineering safety benefits have been coming at a steady pace since the dawn of motoring (or at least since the second world war).
But this 'de-skilling' effect has only emerged in about the last decade or so.
And you KNOW my hypothesis fits your experience perfectly.
vonhosen said:
The majority of roads I travel on & teach this craft have no cameras on.
But the drivers on those roads are used to driving on roads with cameras and to some greater or lesser extent are driving in fear of losing their licences.
But so few of our roads actually have cameras on. Why can't people observe the limits in these few areas & they have more discretion applied elsewhere ? Why make it so hard for themselves when a bit of common sense to where & when you use speed actually sees you OK ?
Or is it because common sense is actually not that common ?
People are people. They are road safety's raw material. Whatever we do we cannot make them perfect. But we can change them little by little. We can help them improve their skills year on year or we can do the opposite. I know we'll agree about the right direction to shift in.
But skills acquisition for an average driver is about much much more than formal training. It's about beliefs, experiences, understanding and developing knowledge. Many of the real skills (hazard perception, visual scan, risk assessment) are subconscious. We should never create an environment that promotes reduction in skills, but that's what we're doing. That's ONE of the speed camera side effects. That's ONE of the reasons why I gave up well paid work to struggle as a road safety campaigner.
vonhosen said:
Skill levels are dropping. SURELY you have noticed?
You could easily blame ABS, traction control etc & the modern car for skill levels dropping.
Using ABS properly take some skill .. you have to understand how these work for them to protect you properly. We are not training well enough
vonhosen said:
The modern car takes such a hand in keeping people on the road & is so forgiving, that people never develop good handling skills. They are less involved in the act of driving & it requires less concentration because of it in a modern car. Is that a bad thing ?
Garbage.. You HAVE to UNDERSTAND HOW the SAFETY GIZMO WORK to be able to handle the car. Thus skills are depleting.. because we sell these to masses as "not requiring thought"
It is a BAD thing - if we do not teach how to use the gadgets.. we see this in sat nav leading people to drive along roads which common sense say not used since Adam were a lad ..und we have the Belgians thinking cruise control mean "carry on .. it will brake for us..
" Of course ist a bad thing.. to allwo everything to be dumbed down..
The BRAIN ist a MUSCLE... it gget even more muscly if USED
Neanderthals!
vonhosen said:
The majority of roads I travel on & teach this craft have no cameras on.
But the drivers on those roads are used to driving on roads with cameras and to some greater or lesser extent are driving in fear of losing their licences.
But so few of our roads actually have cameras on. Why can't people observe the limits in these few areas & they have more discretion applied elsewhere ? Why make it so hard for themselves when a bit of common sense to where & when you use speed actually sees you OK ?
Or is it because common sense is actually not that common ?
>> Edited by vonhosen on Tuesday 11th April 23:16
Cams are on roads und stretches where they make money.. ist not ever where accidents actually happen.. or if accident happened in past.. road return to the mean..
und settle .. either as people avoid the cam area or think "ist accident blackspot area - too dangerous then - I will choose another road instead " Und accidents happen at or below a speed limit just as much as over. Ferdl died - in crawling traffic.. lorry hit at 20 mph into car crawling at 10/15 mph. I was 0 mph. Was hit at greatest speed.. I have 9 lives though
have maybe gone through at least three of them (ski-ing.. ice hockey.. in youthful playfulness und then the kittens.. - plus the accident.. ) Accident occur because one or more of COAST ist missing on part of one or both..
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