Trailer towing:- B and B+E licence rules explained

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Rosscow said:

Just this morning passed my B+E test. Phew!

15 years since I passed my driving test, that was quite stressful!

WELL DONE

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onomatopoeia said:

How does one work this out with something that is imported and (apparently) does not appear to have a GTW or other towing information shown on the plate?

The engine on my A6 having grenaded itself, I'm thinking specifically of a Bongo.

Not a clue - can only guess that DVLA might be able to help

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jagracer said:

Have you thought of trying Google http://www.imperialcar.co.uk/bongo_facts

Bongo Facts
Gross Vehicle Weight 2260 kg
Tow weight 1600 kg

If it had a plate it would be
GVW 2260
GTW 3860

Max plated MAM for a trailer (MTPLM caravan) on a B only licence would be 1240 kg
Max actual weight for the trailer including its load for a B+E is 1600 kg

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DaveBenyon said:

Towing with a van can be very problematic I hear as allegedly one can be in numerous Catch 22 situations. Suppose the van is rated for a gross weight of 3500 kilos. The naive owner fits a tow-bar and tows (lets say) a 600 kilos gross trailer from Halfords. Even though the van and trailer may be empty it is possible that the police and VOSA will still assume that they have fictitious loads or will have heavy loads later in the journey. Gross Train Weight (fictitious GTW actually) now 3500 plus 600 kilos, 4100 kilos. If one only holds a 3500 kilo licence one can be in the sh!t right away even though one is not actually driving more than 3500 kilos. They may also want to see ones Tachograph!

Dunno where you get your info but I think you need to go elsewhere to get it

The GTW refers to actual weight not plated weights - that's the law

This example is legal with a B+E licence
GVW 2800
GTW 3500
Towing capacity 1200
Trailer MAM 1500
Load vehicle to actual weight of 2300
Load trailer to actual weight of 1200
Tacho needed if for commercial use

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Supernova190188 said:

So as far as I can make out so far , am I right or wrong in the following scenario?
I passed my test in 2005 , say I have a big 4x4 with kerb weight of 2000kg and gvw of 2300kg then I could tow a small caravan with a MAM of 1200kg , but couldn't tow an empty car transporter with weight of 350kg and MAM of 1300kg, however if i had a smaller car with weight of 1350kg and MAM of 1600kg then I could tow the caravan and also empty or fully loaded car transporter trailer? Seems absolutely ridiculous if this is correct.

You just about got it

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There is a weight plate hidden in the vehicle usually under the bonnet or in a door frame

It has 4 weights on that plate

The top weight is the GVW
the second is the GTW
Take GVW from GTW and you have the max towing capacity - that is not always the case as the towing capacity might be more but it will be at least that figure

If the plated MAM of a trailer is more than the towing capacity then use the towing capacity as the max weight for a loaded trailer

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Xpuffin said:

Thanks, but that doesn't follow the advice given in the VOSA memo I linked, if the vehicle max towing capacity isn't listed what assumption can you make.

If no towing capacity is listed then the GTW can be used by the driver as they see fit

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Being legal and being safe can often be in contradiction

something may be legal but if not safe then who would choose to do it?

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Skylinecrazy said:

Hi, looking to tow a fisher fury race car with a mondeo estate 1.9 turbo diesel. Trailer is a Brian James twin axle trailer and car weighs circa 500kg. Is this legal on a car licence? Had my licence 5 years.

Tia

Find these 2 figures
Car GVW
Trailer plated MAM
Then add them together

If they total more than 3500 then it needs B+E

Actual weights are not needed for licencing - needs plated weights

which is your car - http://carleasingmadesimple.com/business-car-leasi...

which is your trailer - http://www.brianjames.co.uk/pdf/blue_transporterwe...

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Skylinecrazy said:

Car weighs 1750kg and load will weigh about 1300kg. So car weighs more than load. So in my limited understanding I should be ok?

Forget actual weights

You only have a B licence so we need to know the plated weights
GVW of vehicle
MAM of trailer

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On a B licence you could have a car actually weighing 2000 with a trailer actually weighing 1500 BUT if the car GVW is 2200 and the trailer MAM is 2000 then its illegal for B towing because the total of the plated weights is 4200 which is 700 more than the 3500 max

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Skylinecrazy said:

Can you explain that in laymans terms without acronyms etc? No idea what 'plated' weight means. I'll sound stupid here but I'd rather know.

GVW = Permissable Gross Vehicle Weight or in laymans terms - the legal maximum weight it can be when fully loaded

MAM = Permissable Maximum authorised Mass or in laymans terms - the legal maximum weight it can be when fully loaded

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Supernova190188 said:

I've just viewed my driving record on the DVLA website , and it states the following with regards to towing:

You can drive vehicles up to 3,500kg Maximum Authorised Mass (MAM) and up to 8 passenger seats, and a driver, with trailer up to 750kg; trailers over 750kg if combined weight of vehicle and trailer isn't over 3,500kg and the fully-loaded trailer doesn't weigh more than the unladen vehicle.

So essentially does this mean I could potentially pull an empty car transporter for instance ?

Not on a B only licence if the vehicle GVW added to the trailer plated MAM totals more than 3500 kg

That Gov quote misses out one very important word = MAM
Its not 3500 max actual weight but 3500 max plated weight

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jagracer said:

Let's be honest the .gov website is pretty woeful compared with its predecessor site. It's full of misinformation and inaccuracies.

You are not kidding ..... this bit was revoked on 19/01/2013 ....

"and the fully-loaded trailer doesn't weigh more than the unladen vehicle."

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Supernova190188 said:

Yeah , which is confusing as far as I was concerned from my example above I technically couldn't pull an empty trailer behind a large 4x4 as MAM plated would be over 3500kg, however from the DVLA website it seems to say you can as long as trailer isn't heavier than tow car and it's all under 3500kg - which seems to actually be the rules if you passed after Jan 2013 , so if you got pulled over then where exactly would you stand? Which set of rules do the police go by ?

Police go by the LAW as written in the statute which is as I stated and not as some badly written piece on a website albeit by a Gov dept

The date of passing B make no difference to the current law on B towing which is the same for all

If you doubt me then feel free to consult a lawyer well versed in traffic law

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Supernova190188 said:

I don't doubt you whatsoever , you're very helpful on this subject! So essentially it would be illegal for me to tow an empty trailer with a large 4x4 , but legal for someone who passed this year to do it?

NO - the towing laws are the same/identical/no difference for all B licence drivers

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onomatopoeia said:

If youthe manufacturer made a new plate for the trailer that said the maximum gross weight of the trailer was 1300kg and the maximum load was 800kg, you could, as vehicle MGW + trailer MGW = 3495kg.

The law should stick to the actual weights being towed, rather than weights that you could hypothetically tow whilst remaining within the trailer MGW. It's a bit of an arsewipe at the moment.

If a new plate was made at 1300 then minus the 920 empty weight it would only leave 380 kg for the load not 800

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Super Slo Mo said:

It's 500kg empty.

Silly me - I looked at the axle weights

Need to go to specsavers ..... again !!

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SIMPLE TOWING RULES

These rules apply to all B and B+E category drivers no matter when the test was passed

B category
Vehicle not more than 3500 kg plated GVW

B category towing
A trailer of 750 kg max plated MAM may be towed by a B category vehicle making a possible total plated MAM of 4250 kg
If a trailer over 750 kg plated MAM is towed by a B category vehicle then the plated GVW of the vehicle added to the plated MAM of the trailer (MTPLM of a caravan) must not total more than 3500 kg

B+E category
Towing a trailer with a B category vehicle where the trailer is not over 3500 kg plated MAM

To tow a trailer over 3500 kg plated MAM the category needed is C1+E



Why can't the Gov sites make it this simple?

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What does the missing bit above the 400/550 say ?