Police too busy!
Discussion
Greendubber said:
Rovinghawk said:
Apparently there's a fair few of them in holiday destinations, acting in such a manner that their leader has been recalled to front office to explain it.
What 9 of them? hardly a 'fair few'Recalled because of the Sun, funny how the family of the missing lad were disgusted with the report and the recall of the officer.
You're like a broken record, a really boring one.
bmw535i said:
Greendubber said:
Rovinghawk said:
Apparently there's a fair few of them in holiday destinations, acting in such a manner that their leader has been recalled to front office to explain it.
What 9 of them? hardly a 'fair few'Recalled because of the Sun, funny how the family of the missing lad were disgusted with the report and the recall of the officer.
You're like a broken record, a really boring one.
They're not even from the force relevant to this thread which makes it a complete red herring.
What is your actual point? You've had it explained to you how demand and response works. It's not massively complicated to get, is it?
If you want greater officer numbers per head like Germany, France, Scotland, Ireland, Northern Ireland, Holland, the US and the other 100 odd countries who have more officers per head than England, then it would cost more money.
At the moment we have one of the lowest numbers of officers per head with any comparable country, yet we imprison more per head than more other comparable country. Someone has to gather the evidence to put people there.
Just saying. When people keep bleating on about how all their problems are caused by low numbers, you'd think they would cling to every last one harder than a Scotsman grips a fiver.
I see they're planning on deploying "dozens" to France in the coming weeks for the Euro 2016 football. I wonder how many officers France would send over if we were hosting the competition.
I see they're planning on deploying "dozens" to France in the coming weeks for the Euro 2016 football. I wonder how many officers France would send over if we were hosting the competition.
La Liga said:
They're not even from the force relevant to this thread which makes it a complete red herring
So you only want to concentrate on Avon and Somerset. Ok:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-36371...
I love how they say these officers can't be identified. If it's true that there are only a handful of officers on duty, it can't be that hard to find out. Of course, you'd be relying on their integrity to admit it, which leads me onto:
http://m.bristolpost.co.uk/Bristol-police-officer-...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-36287828
Rovinghawk said:
La Liga said 12 staff.
For what and where? bmw535i said:
Just saying. When people keep bleating on about how all their problems are caused by low numbers, you'd think they would cling to every last one harder than a Scotsman grips a fiver.
Who is claiming 'all their problems' are caused by low numbers? People have taken the time to explain some of their experiences and consequences of the reduced capacity to respond. Whether people like that or not, or want to believe it or not doesn't change the validity.
bmw535i said:
I see they're planning on deploying "dozens" to France in the coming weeks for the Euro 2016 football. I wonder how many officers France would send over if we were hosting the competition.
Any country with modern techniques for dealing with risky football fans will be sending officers, just as they would send to us. If you want to be insular about it, there's a very good chance they'll be a net benefit to us given the football powers available i.e. any of our fans who cause trouble will be prevented from causing people in the future at home.
bmw535i said:
La Liga said:
They're not even from the force relevant to this thread which makes it a complete red herring
So you only want to concentrate on Avon and Somerset. Ok:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-36371...
I love how they say these officers can't be identified. If it's true that there are only a handful of officers on duty, it can't be that hard to find out. Of course, you'd be relying on their integrity to admit it, which leads me onto:
http://m.bristolpost.co.uk/Bristol-police-officer-...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-36287828
Plenty of people join the forces with criminal convictions and are retained after acquiring them whilst serving. Would I be stupid enough to extrapolate that minority and use it as leverage against the whole armed forces, the majority of whom do a good job? Of course not. But then I have perspective and am not trying to desperately score points.
walm said:
bmw535i you have said that you accept that numbers are low, which would be a possible explanation for what happened in the story in your OP.
Yet you continue to say (repeatedly) that you believe the remaining police who haven't been fired or aren't on maternity leave and whatnot are "rubbish".
You have found some evidence of a few slackers etc... but this looks like NEW issues to you which are examples that fit your already held opinion (nothing wrong with that, of course).
But my question is this...
What makes you think current policemen are rubbish??
The story in the OP isn't evidence of anything since it could be explained by low numbers (or laziness, we just don't know).
So what makes you so sure that they are so terrible?
Genuine question!
I think I've explained my reasons previouslyYet you continue to say (repeatedly) that you believe the remaining police who haven't been fired or aren't on maternity leave and whatnot are "rubbish".
You have found some evidence of a few slackers etc... but this looks like NEW issues to you which are examples that fit your already held opinion (nothing wrong with that, of course).
But my question is this...
What makes you think current policemen are rubbish??
The story in the OP isn't evidence of anything since it could be explained by low numbers (or laziness, we just don't know).
So what makes you so sure that they are so terrible?
Genuine question!
Bigyoke said:
You posted earlier that you had reported two incidents which were apparently NFA'd after the suspects were interviewed, so are you saying that on the basis of two incidents that didn't result in the outcome you'd expected or wanted, every Police Officer in the UK is rubbish?
I also spoke about other experiences I've had. People form opinions based on their experiences. I don't know why this has caused so much offence, but sometimes opinions are reinforced when people try to defend themselves by throwing muck back. By this I mean people latching onto the fact I'm a soldier and trying to say they're thick etc - it doesn't really work though.I don't really mind what brush you choose to tar the army with. There are a lot of useless, arrogant, thick, unfit soldiers and there are also very good ones. I'm sure this is also the case for the police.
I am not intending to be offensive. If you are offended, I can only assume you fall into one or more of the categories I have described.
I am only drawing on my experiences from when I have come into contact with the police. I would love to be able to say I'd had positive experiences and that my faith in the police service was solid, but it just isn't. I don't really see the issue with expressing this and I will continue to do so.
You can deride soldiers as much as you like, I will probably be inclined to agree with your sentiments as I have with other posters.
When various members of the police service are in the news every day for corruption, malpractice, incompetence etc, it is difficult to defend. I'm sure you will blame the media for having an agenda as other posters have, but there is no smoke without fire.
I am not intending to be offensive. If you are offended, I can only assume you fall into one or more of the categories I have described.
I am only drawing on my experiences from when I have come into contact with the police. I would love to be able to say I'd had positive experiences and that my faith in the police service was solid, but it just isn't. I don't really see the issue with expressing this and I will continue to do so.
You can deride soldiers as much as you like, I will probably be inclined to agree with your sentiments as I have with other posters.
When various members of the police service are in the news every day for corruption, malpractice, incompetence etc, it is difficult to defend. I'm sure you will blame the media for having an agenda as other posters have, but there is no smoke without fire.
bmw535i said:
XCP said:
I have known Andy Marsh for getting on for 30 years. I worked with him when he was a PC. If you are holding him up as an example of low standards of integrity you are barking up the wrong tree I am afraid.
So he didn't get in trouble?BBC news said:
A 2014 inquiry by Essex Police cleared him of misconduct allegations.
bmw535i said:
People form opinions based on their experiences.
People may, but intelligent people recognise the limitations of experience alone. As a poster written above, my interactions with soldiers in a professional capacity also hasn't been overly favourable, however, I wouldn't make a lazy generalisation like you did because I recognise they are a minority amongst a good majority.
You also wrote this, which clearly isn't true:
It does raise the question once more, what's your point? What are you specifically raising and objecting to? You had one at first until the likely scenario was explained and now you've just dug in and searched for unrelated negative stories etc.
bmw535i said:
I can only go on my personal experiences with the police which have all left me frustrated and having a complete lack of faith in the police force.
However, if you're now fundamentally saying you know there's good and bad in all occupations then that's fine and more in line with reality. It does raise the question once more, what's your point? What are you specifically raising and objecting to? You had one at first until the likely scenario was explained and now you've just dug in and searched for unrelated negative stories etc.
La Liga said:
However, if you're now fundamentally saying you know there's good and bad in all occupations then that's fine and more in line with reality.
It does raise the question once more, what's your point? You had one at first until the likely scenario was explained and now you've just dug in and searched for unrelated negative stories etc.
My point is I think that the police are utterly useless and couldn't care less. It is just an opinion based on my experiences. It does raise the question once more, what's your point? You had one at first until the likely scenario was explained and now you've just dug in and searched for unrelated negative stories etc.
La Liga said:
So you've started a thread to share your wholly limited and, evidentially, incorrect opinion.
Did you just want some attention? There are better, more constructive ways in which to achieve it.
No, the thread was started to share a news article. Did you just want some attention? There are better, more constructive ways in which to achieve it.
It has attracted some attention, I can't really understand why, but can only assume it's hit a nerve for the reasons I've already said.
I'm not really sure how you've concluded my opinion is wrong, but if you do think that it's fair enough. Unsurprisingly, the stupidity displayed by police officers on here hasn't altered my opinion, perhaps just reinforced it.
The police I have experienced are utterly useless and couldn't care less.
There are probably some out there that aren't like this. I've not met any
I've maintained this all along. Sadly it is human nature to assume that an experience at the hands of one member of a service will be much the same as another. Perhaps I am guilty of this.
I would like it to be different, but it isn't I'm afraid.
There are probably some out there that aren't like this. I've not met any
I've maintained this all along. Sadly it is human nature to assume that an experience at the hands of one member of a service will be much the same as another. Perhaps I am guilty of this.
I would like it to be different, but it isn't I'm afraid.
bmw535i said:
It has attracted some attention, I can't really understand why, but can only assume it's hit a nerve for the reasons I've already said.
Because you've done what a few people do. Get all angry and ranty about something you've read, feel the need to post about but then have all your steam taken away when people who know what they are talking about whom offer a rational and reasonable explanation. Then rather than accept the response you dig in and
bmw535i said:
I'm not really sure how you've concluded my opinion is wrong, but if you do think that it's fair enough. Unsurprisingly, the stupidity displayed by police officers on here hasn't altered my opinion, perhaps just reinforced it.
Just because it's an opinion doesn't make it immune from being wrong. My opinion is the world is flat, for example.
I've provided some hardly-subtle (evidentially too subtle) indications. One of the lowest police-per-head, yet one of the highest people in prison-per-head. Someone needs to undertake high-quality investigations to satisfy the evidential threshold to keep the courts full and keep the prisons full. This alone means only a fool would use the word 'useless' in such a generalised way given one of the most fundamental facets of police work is consistently undertaken to such a high degree.
Crime has consistently fallen since the 1990s. There are many external factors which have influenced this, but constantly improving policing has played its part.
I'm not going to go into too much detail about this part - try to get the prison thing first - but there are many data sets, surveys and other objective material dealing with experiences of the police, confidence in the police and trust in the police which undermine your opinion. These have the obvious benefit of large samples which increases validity.
Try those for starters.
bmw535i said:
Sadly it is human nature to assume that an experience at the hands of one member of a service will be much the same as another.
Speak for yourself. Some of us think better. Hmmm I think the "steam" has been coming from the baying mob as you defiantly refuse to accept that anybody dare suggest the incompetence of police officers.
Saying the world is flat isn't having an opinion.
Saying that police officers I've met are useless is. I'm not saying it's a fact, we all think differently. You won't change my mind, you are only strengthening my opinion I'm afraid
Saying the world is flat isn't having an opinion.
Saying that police officers I've met are useless is. I'm not saying it's a fact, we all think differently. You won't change my mind, you are only strengthening my opinion I'm afraid
bmw535i said:
Hmmm I think the "steam" has been coming from the baying mob as you defiantly refuse to accept that anybody dare suggest the incompetence of police officers.
I assume you mean something similar to people refusing to accept there are incompetent police, as opposed to refusing to accept that anyone 'dare to suggest it', since the latter doesn't make much sense. No one has done either. You're presenting a Strawman (look it up) because you're unable to argue against the actual points raised.
bmw535i said:
Saying the world is flat isn't having an opinion.
Of course it can be. bmw535i said:
Saying that police officers I've met are useless is. I'm not saying it's a fact, we all think differently. You won't change my mind, you are only strengthening my opinion I'm afraid
You didn't write your opinion was that it was the ones you've met, you wrote: bmw535i previously said:
My point is I think that the police are utterly useless and couldn't care less. It is just an opinion based on my experiences.
Do you understand the difference? If you're writing about your specific experiences then no one can tell you otherwise as we don't know about them. If you're making a fool's generalisation based off your experiences (as you did above) then people who know better (many on here, it seems) can tell you otherwise.
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