Norfolk Police claim sports exhausts are illegal?

[Parsnip]

spaximus said:

It is a bad law that will see people pass or fail on wheter the officer feels like it.

No,

This is a great rule - it means my exhaust (which is very loud) will get by as it sounds good. Barry McChav's on his 1.2 Corsa (which is also very loud) will get him into bother as it sounds crap.

Only cars that sound nice should be allowed to make a racket

[aeropilot]

rscott said:

aeropilot said:

The BMWPE is type approved.

I have a BMWPE on my 135i, and the noise level is within stated EU regs for type approval. What isn't is combining the BMWPE with the BMW engine power kit, as when tested to type approval by BMW the noise exceeded the EU limit, so BMW won't fit the powerkit if the exhaust is already in place, or they won't fit the exhaust if you have the power kit ailready in place or they won't fit both together

That type approval makes no difference to Norfolk Police

I doubt even Norfolk Plod are that stupid.

From that Norfolk Plod website in your OP.....

....."Big bore and sports exhaust systems are usually fitted to increase the sound emitted and this contravenes the Type Approval of the vehicle, which is an offence"......

Which means if the exhaust doesn't have TA (as most aftermarket ones won't have) then you could be prosecuted under these new TA EU directives which are gradually (by stealth) replacing the old construction and use stuff.

All manufacturers, by EU law have to TA all parts sold by them, so therefore that BMWP exhaust or whatever will have gone through the same TA process as any other BMW part and has a TA certificate and paperwork......therefore no offence has been committed, and you'd have the documentation to prove it.
This is about putting a stop to all the aftermarket stuff that makes up the aftermarket tuning/modding community and bringing the UK into line with the rest of the EU.
Warnings about this have been around for years but most people have been sticking their head in the sand and saying it won't happen here etc.,etc. but sadly it largely already has without most people realising it.

[speedking31]

So all Kwik Fit exhausts have been through type approval? If they change Chinese supplier do they have to go through the process again?

[gowmonster]

speedking31 said:

So all Kwik Fit exhausts have been through type approval? If they change Chinese supplier do they have to go through the process again?

probably not, but they arn't loud so you are missing the point. It's about police clamping down on sound nuisance, an older geezer in a TVR isn't likely to be hooning about noising it up and annoying people, they are going to be on a country road enjoying the noise without police about and even if they are stopped, a nice civilised conversation will happen unless that particular policeman is an ahole.

everything is an opinion, policemans, your's the judges.

[speedking31]

The point is not "Loud", but "Louder than standard ... in the opinion of a Police Officer". No objective testing required.

[Devil2575]

aeropilot said:

This is about putting a stop to all the aftermarket stuff that makes up the aftermarket tuning/modding community and bringing the UK into line with the rest of the EU.

So an end to aftermarket perfomance exhausts?

AFAIK they are still availible to buy in Europe aren't they?

[Fab32]

Fab32 said:

So how will it work for my car then?

A 316 compact with an m3 engine in it. How can they prove it is louder than standard? There is no standard.

I plan on having an exhaust fitted by power and performance in Norwich I will have to drive it back quietly until I cross the boarder

Fab

So we are saying my car will be judged on the noise output at the exhaust and compared to a 1.6? And they will not consider the fact that it has another engine fitted, even though the car is registered with the DVLA as having an engine change and is insured as an M3 also?

So what about a Westfield or MK kit car how do they go about sorting that issue out then?

[madbadger]

gowmonster said:

speedking31 said:

So all Kwik Fit exhausts have been through type approval? If they change Chinese supplier do they have to go through the process again?

probably not, but they arn't loud so you are missing the point. It's about police clamping down on sound nuisance, an older geezer in a TVR isn't likely to be hooning about noising it up and annoying people, they are going to be on a country road enjoying the noise without police about and even if they are stopped, a nice civilised conversation will happen unless that particular policeman is an ahole.

everything is an opinion, policemans, your's the judges.

We hope.

[PanzerCommander]

Fab32 said:

So we are saying my car will be judged on the noise output at the exhaust and compared to a 1.6? And they will not consider the fact that it has another engine fitted, even though the car is registered with the DVLA as having an engine change and is insured as an M3 also?

So what about a Westfield or MK kit car how do they go about sorting that issue out then?

Kit cars should be judged on the BIVA/IVA/SVA whatever it is now which if memory serves me correctly is 99dB not sure on the angle and distance, or revs.

[ging84]

PanzerCommander said:

Kit cars should be judged on the BIVA/IVA/SVA whatever it is now which if memory serves me correctly is 99dB not sure on the angle and distance, or revs.

for IVA it is currently 99dBA sound limit, sound meter horizontal, height parallel to the outlet pipe, but atleast 200mm from the ground, 45 degree angle to the car, 500mm from the outlet.
Engine revs should be 3/4 of the stated max power of the engine speed, or if no stated value is known, then 2/3 of the max design speed (the rev limit)

This test is enough to satisfy vosa that a vehicle is not excessively noisy and would likely pass a 74dBA drive by test. This should be the test that norfolk police conduct, if they are unable to obtain the correct stationary noise test value from the vehicle's type approval certificate. Instead they make up their own procedures and noise limits, don't follow their own procedures correctly, because they don't understand them, but somehow successfully convict anyway

[WinstonWolf]

PanzerCommander said:

Frik said:

TVRs weren't type approved though...

True but I imagine they would have had to pass the same noise regs on the SVA? and they did have a factory standard fit whether type aproved or not.

Yup, and it's bloody noisy fortunately it's a nice noise...

[streaky]

Fab32 said:

... until I cross the boarder

Be careful of crossing the boarder, they might have at you with their cutlass.

Streaky

[XJ Flyer]

aeropilot said:

I doubt even Norfolk Plod are that stupid.

From that Norfolk Plod website in your OP.....

....."Big bore and sports exhaust systems are usually fitted to increase the sound emitted and this contravenes the Type Approval of the vehicle, which is an offence"......

Which means if the exhaust doesn't have TA (as most aftermarket ones won't have) then you could be prosecuted under these new TA EU directives which are gradually (by stealth) replacing the old construction and use stuff.

All manufacturers, by EU law have to TA all parts sold by them, so therefore that BMWP exhaust or whatever will have gone through the same TA process as any other BMW part and has a TA certificate and paperwork......therefore no offence has been committed, and you'd have the documentation to prove it.
This is about putting a stop to all the aftermarket stuff that makes up the aftermarket tuning/modding community and bringing the UK into line with the rest of the EU.
Warnings about this have been around for years but most people have been sticking their head in the sand and saying it won't happen here etc.,etc. but sadly it largely already has without most people realising it.

^ +1

It seems obvious that what it's really all about is just the thin end of the wedge to make all modifications and tuning illegal.It wouldn't be surprising if the manufacturers themselves are behind a lot of this in the case of not wanting the situation in which people could be able to make a better and faster car by modifying something at less overall cost than having to spend lots more for something that is compliant with all the bullst EU regulations.

[handbraketurn]

Reading the article, they're saying a sports exhaust could be illegal if it's too loud.

If it's noise, there must be a legal maximum that your car can make?

What is it?

And how are they going to measure it. They might have the odd crack down on a given day with all the sound measuring kit, but plot aren't going to carry that around in squad cars, so I wouldn't worry.

On track days you get measured before and on the track. Before is at they stick a rod at your exahust and get you to rev engine. And then they do it again on the drive by. If you breach the max levels, you get kicked off.

Some people take mufflers to keep the sound down if they have wide bore exhaust.

I'm all for people improving their cars and getting more power, but there are some right tools driving aroudn with exhausts the size of a dustpin making a stupid racket. Sorry, but that IS antisocial. I've been woken up a few times by some b3llend driving around in a riced up hot hatch rocking the house with a wide bore exahust. The performance gains are minimal compared to the pain you make of yourself.

I'm happy for plot to nick those people.

[XJ Flyer]

handbraketurn said:

Reading the article, they're saying a sports exhaust could be illegal if it's too loud.

If it's noise, there must be a legal maximum that your car can make?

What is it?

And how are they going to measure it. They might have the odd crack down on a given day with all the sound measuring kit, but plot aren't going to carry that around in squad cars, so I wouldn't worry.

On track days you get measured before and on the track. Before is at they stick a rod at your exahust and get you to rev engine. And then they do it again on the drive by. If you breach the max levels, you get kicked off.

Some people take mufflers to keep the sound down if they have wide bore exhaust.

I'm all for people improving their cars and getting more power, but there are some right tools driving aroudn with exhausts the size of a dustpin making a stupid racket. Sorry, but that IS antisocial. I've been woken up a few times by some b3llend driving around in a riced up hot hatch rocking the house with a wide bore exahust. The performance gains are minimal compared to the pain you make of yourself.

I'm happy for plot to nick those people.

The problem is that they won't differentiate between the loud shopping cars and the sound of freedom.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Omj6zxtIB0

www.youtube.com/watch?v=End6w3mfZKE

[ging84]

handbraketurn said:

Reading the article, they're saying a sports exhaust could be illegal if it's too loud.

If it's noise, there must be a legal maximum that your car can make?

What is it?

74dBA for the EU drive by sound test for passenger cars, this is the only actual limit which is written in the law in UK. The test is impracticable to reproduce for enforcement purposes so as part of type approval, a has a stationary sound test has to be done for an easier comparison.
Any modification to the silencer which makes it more noisy is also illegal, so a car which has a stationary reference test value of 79dBA and changes the exhaust for one that tests at say 83dBA is likely to be illegal, yet you can get unmodified vehicles with stationary noise test values of at-least 88dBA which are perfectly legal

[XJ Flyer]

ging84 said:

74dBA for the EU drive by sound test for passenger cars, this is the only actual limit which is written in the law in UK. The test is impracticable to reproduce for enforcement purposes so as part of type approval, a has a stationary sound test has to be done for an easier comparison.
Any modification to the silencer which makes it more noisy is also illegal, so a car which has a stationary reference test value of 79dBA and changes the exhaust for one that tests at say 83dBA is likely to be illegal, yet you can get unmodified vehicles with stationary noise test values of at-least 88dBA which are perfectly legal

The question is there's been loads of complete silencer removal exhaust mods been carried out on different cars by different modifiers for years,mine included in addition to a larger engine than standard and manual box whereas it was auto,with no issues at MOT time,so something must have suddenly changed.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qhbS8UWf58

[streaky]

The general rule is given by:

Construction and Use Regulations E CONTROL OF NOISE said:

Avoidance of excessive noise

97. No motor vehicle shall be used on a road in such manner as to cause any excessive noise which could have been avoided by the exercise of reasonable care on the part of the driver.

I wonder whether "reasonable care" might extend to include that over the selection of a TA exhaust?

The limits are laid down by Motor Vehicle Noise Directive (Directive 70/157/EEC) as amended, but a quick search didn't turn up the relevant UK legislation. [G00gle or Streaky failure?]

Streaky

Edited to address issue caused by "&" in a quote.

Edited by streaky on Thursday 22 August 08:43

[V8 Fettler]

Are replacement exhausts for cars required to be CE marked?

[RemaL]

Interesting thread. Having a kit car that I did my best to quiet down to get on trackdays. it passed the SVA with a repackable exhaust but after 2-3 years was Loud. would set of car alarms when accelerating past. How would that work. I tried re-packing it but that made it worse.

Also I had a Speed Triple which as the first service the Triumph Dealer fitted Sport exhausts to (I asked for something a bit differen which they suggested this exhaust). Sounded lovely but loud but was not for road use. Now the dealer knew this and I did not until after I got home. I had no issues with this and never had a issue with any Police.

But both times it was never over the top like a youth with a cherry bomb exhaust on their 1 lrt car.

Edited by RemaL on Wednesday 21st August 08:26