POLICE...... False evidence
Discussion
PetrolTed said:
Streetcop, your attitude stinks sometimes.
We're not here to try the bloke, yet you mock him already.
You whinge to me when people don't show you the respect that you claim you deserve. Respect has to be earned - learn from your fellow BiB's on here.
There are sad people in every walk of life, Steeetcop and the plods in question seem to of a similar ilk.
Shame, I know a few dam fine coppers, who have to take the flack that results from the actions of ###kers like this.
flasher said:
Iolaire
unlike "streetcop" you have just earned my respect for that post. And believe me, as a rail engineer of 20 years I had severe doubts after reading your posts this week.
I too believe the Police should act above question at all times and when they don't they should be punished with the most severe action possible. Unfortunatley when you see the posts on here of one or two of them and the behaviour of some of them like I saw the other night (when a colleague of mine was needlessley fined for the most minor offence by two of the most patronising and pathetic officers I have ever met) I give up. I wouldn't help the police now as a matter of principle.
Well Flasher, there comes a point in your life where the unacceptable is all too obvious, and you either ignore it, suppress your conscience, and blunder on, or you fight it, difficult though it may be.
It is incredible how many people feel totally intimidated by the law, even when they're innocent!
I see it on a par with a playground bully at school; the more yo let him away with, the bigger and uglier he gets; so you have to stop him.
As far as the railways are concerned, I definitely did not knock railway engineers, the problem is the fragmentation of the system and the way investors will bleed it dry at the expense of safety.
It might interest you to know that I love the railways and it is my favourite way to travel; and what's more, I am only back here a few months and am deciding whether or not to put some roots back down in Scotland.
One of the ways I would do this is to get back into an engineering post and I've actually applied for one on the railways, so I might be able to do some hands on good and not just talk about it.
IOLAIRE said:
It is incredible how many people feel totally intimidated by the law, even when they're innocent!
I see it on a par with a playground bully at school
Completely agree, now I'm no expert but I can claim to getting away with a few incidents here and there.
It's all about the attitude check, but there also comes a point beyond that, where it can still be possible to steer the whole incident in a direction prefereable to oneself.
Sure, occaisionally you are going to get the odd cop who is going to hit you withe full weight of his powers. The trick is to realise this early on and manage the situation accordingly.
Now, given that eveo666 is claiming 42 stops, one is left wondering why he let it get so bad.
In my mind there is more to this situation than meets the eye, perhaps that might explain SC's initial response.
remember the fnords
best
Ex
The BiB do a very difficult job and for the most part i respect them as a professional group of people who serve the community, in the same way that i respect nurses, fire fighters, paramedics, soldiers, midwives, doctors etc. However there is an ingrained attitude within the police force that they are THE law rather than protectors of it.
MilnerR said:
The BiB do a very difficult job and for the most part i respect them as a professional group of people who serve the community, in the same way that i respect nurses, fire fighters, paramedics, soldiers, midwives, doctors etc. However there is an ingrained attitude within the police force that they are THE law rather than protectors of it.
Perhaps "ingrained" is too strong, as over the years I have been stopped many, many,many,many,many times, and as a rule found them to be very professional. I do agree, however, that there is a minority that do have that attitude and abuse their position
TheExcession said:
Now, given that eveo666 is claiming 42 stops, one is left wondering why he let it get so bad.
In my mind there is more to this situation than meets the eye, perhaps that might explain SC's initial response.
remember the fnords
best
Ex
He can't be doing anything wrong though, because if he was, after 42 stops he would be well banned. Why are they still pulling him over when they must know he and his car are both street legal?
Grouch.
hmm...
Not doubting you, but we only have your side of things so I won't damn everyone.
If this was the way things occured then frankly it isn't on, and can honestly say that I have never been privvy to this type of behaviour, or any officers I have worked with.
Tony and the rest of us on here would no doubt agree.
If I were you I would have a formal chat with the Police inspector on duty, have your complaint put down in writing. Do you remember any collar numbers etc.
It is good advice to have a lawyer involved.
I too agree with flasher, that if you uphold the law you abide by it.
Yes if someone tries to take my head off with a bottle or similar, they will get a right hammering, but I won't make it up and they will deserve every stitch/broken bone they get. But falsifying evidence.....not on.
Keep us posted....
By the way, not my patch.....Not me guv....
KFC,
Good greasy kebab is the way ahead....
>> Edited by silverback mike on Friday 12th November 08:23
Not doubting you, but we only have your side of things so I won't damn everyone.
If this was the way things occured then frankly it isn't on, and can honestly say that I have never been privvy to this type of behaviour, or any officers I have worked with.
Tony and the rest of us on here would no doubt agree.
If I were you I would have a formal chat with the Police inspector on duty, have your complaint put down in writing. Do you remember any collar numbers etc.
It is good advice to have a lawyer involved.
I too agree with flasher, that if you uphold the law you abide by it.
Yes if someone tries to take my head off with a bottle or similar, they will get a right hammering, but I won't make it up and they will deserve every stitch/broken bone they get. But falsifying evidence.....not on.
Keep us posted....
By the way, not my patch.....Not me guv....
KFC,
Good greasy kebab is the way ahead.... >> Edited by silverback mike on Friday 12th November 08:23
One of my first posts on PH:
My advice to you is fight it! Write a letter to the chief constable outlining all the facts. List all the dates and times etc from the producers etc.
Tell them if this isn't sorted out to your satisfaction you will be taking it up with the Police Complaints. Who WILL take it seriously. (The guy they sent out to me used to deal with police shootouts, fatal car chases).
Carry a diary in your car and when/if stopped again. Right down as much details as you can:
Time,
Date,
Location,
Badge Numbers of Officers
Reg plates of officers
Reg plates/Names of any witnesses
(In your case it might be worth noting down the weather)
Not sure of the legality's but you could try carrying a tape recorder and recording the conversation.
Good Luck! My complaint was made about 2 1/2 years ago but I can remember the stress very well!
If you want any more advice feel free to email me.
Edited to Add - Having the police come out to interview you about an assault on a woman is not nice! Espically (sp?) when they have made the whole thing up!
>> Edited by pmanson on Friday 12th November 08:42
Wednesday 12th March 2003 said:
I'm new to this forum but you seem to be the font of all knowledge!! About a year ago i was driving home from Halfords of all places and suddenly i was stopped by the police. Apparently i had gone through a red light (Even though it was amber and i have a witness in my car) and was seen by an unmarked car with only the driver in it. So i'm driving home and i see a marked police car turning round and he comes and pulls me over. Then the traffic police arrive down the middle of the road. I was boxed in at the side of the road with the unmarked car on the pavement alongside. I get out thinking its all a mistake and was told about the traffic light. The guy who had apparently seen me do it then turned around and said as the traffic police were on the scene he'd have to see what they wanted to do. He then comes back and says they want to give me 3 points without even talking to me. At this point a fourth car arrives and parks up. So for going through an amber traffic light i ended with 4 police cars and five police officers (and they're understaffed).
After speaking to my solicitor (Who lives up the road, free advice as and when) i went up the police station in aylesbury and make a complaint and hand in my license. Eventually i get a response after sending a letter to the chief constable, but the inspector who i spoke to, rubbed me up the wrong way so i ended up making a formal complaint. On the day the PCC came out according to the neighbours a police car was marked outside the house but went away when someone came out to see what happening. This happened again and again (5 cars in 4 days) Eventually they called when i was in and was told they were investigating an assault and my car had been indentifyed from CCTV footage. (NOT by the numberplate though, they recognised the car by the large dent in the side of it!) The copper dragged it out a bit but eventually told me they were looking for witnesses. I decided it was easier to take the points (TS10) and not risk the large fine as i'm a student so now i don't have a clean license. The think is though i always thought they're had to be 2 officers in the car for it to be used as evidence???
My advice to you is fight it! Write a letter to the chief constable outlining all the facts. List all the dates and times etc from the producers etc.
Tell them if this isn't sorted out to your satisfaction you will be taking it up with the Police Complaints. Who WILL take it seriously. (The guy they sent out to me used to deal with police shootouts, fatal car chases).
Carry a diary in your car and when/if stopped again. Right down as much details as you can:
Time,
Date,
Location,
Badge Numbers of Officers
Reg plates of officers
Reg plates/Names of any witnesses
(In your case it might be worth noting down the weather)
Not sure of the legality's but you could try carrying a tape recorder and recording the conversation.
Good Luck! My complaint was made about 2 1/2 years ago but I can remember the stress very well!
If you want any more advice feel free to email me.
Edited to Add - Having the police come out to interview you about an assault on a woman is not nice! Espically (sp?) when they have made the whole thing up!
>> Edited by pmanson on Friday 12th November 08:42
I think Silverback Mike makes a good point; we only have Evo666's version of events, so it's a bit difficult to give a balanced comment. Despite my own posts on here, I'm no paragon of virtue, and have been rude to the odd member of the public on occasion - but fellow PHers only tend to see my "nice" side, so they don't really get a balanced view of me...
If however, Evo666's version is correct, then he'd be right to make a complaint. He can speak with the duty officer, CAB or the IPCC. I wouldn't bother writing to the Chief Constable, as all that will happen is that the letter will be sent out to either the relevant sector inspector or the discipline unit to deal with. This will just add a couple of weeks to the whole process (obviously there's no problem with CCing the letter to the Chief Constable though).
Using a reputable solicitor can be a good idea (although it may cost you), as it can sometimes be useful for there to be an intermediary involved so that things don't get too heated.
With regard to matching statements, there are stated cases where it has been held that it is perfectly acceptable for officers to compare notes after the event, and that statements will, to a certain extent, match up. Again, like Mike says, actually making up the evidence is a definite no no though.
I do wonder why Evo666 has been stopped as many times as he claims though if he's done absolutely nothing wrong. I'm not naive enough to think that a minority of the Police (or any other workers) never abuse their authoity or powers, but it does seem a bit excessive.
Perhaps StreetCop just meant best of luck making a complaint when there would seem to be so many witnesses on the "other side", ie the odds may be stacked against you, and it's come over as a mickey take. We'll have to wait for him to clear that up for us, I guess.
If however, Evo666's version is correct, then he'd be right to make a complaint. He can speak with the duty officer, CAB or the IPCC. I wouldn't bother writing to the Chief Constable, as all that will happen is that the letter will be sent out to either the relevant sector inspector or the discipline unit to deal with. This will just add a couple of weeks to the whole process (obviously there's no problem with CCing the letter to the Chief Constable though).
Using a reputable solicitor can be a good idea (although it may cost you), as it can sometimes be useful for there to be an intermediary involved so that things don't get too heated.
With regard to matching statements, there are stated cases where it has been held that it is perfectly acceptable for officers to compare notes after the event, and that statements will, to a certain extent, match up. Again, like Mike says, actually making up the evidence is a definite no no though.
I do wonder why Evo666 has been stopped as many times as he claims though if he's done absolutely nothing wrong. I'm not naive enough to think that a minority of the Police (or any other workers) never abuse their authoity or powers, but it does seem a bit excessive.
Perhaps StreetCop just meant best of luck making a complaint when there would seem to be so many witnesses on the "other side", ie the odds may be stacked against you, and it's come over as a mickey take. We'll have to wait for him to clear that up for us, I guess.
TDTH1975 said:
I notice SC has gone extremely quiet.
I had to go to work yesterday evening.....
With hindsight, I should have taken the shift off so that I could have defended my sense of humour on here....ie "
" Perhaps biased....but people who get stopped over 40 times by the police in a short space of time makes me suspicious..
I mean, from what I do know about our police force, my don't have enough time or inter-shift communication to actually target/upset one such person...even if we would want to.. However, having said that, I think the real reason why I put the laughing smilie was that I didn't think he'd have a chance at a proper complaint being solved. At this stage all he's getting are producers, it would seem. I think if the police really had it in for him, they'd have seen him without seat belt, speeding, going through red lights etc etc...
>> Edited by Streetcop on Friday 12th November 10:35
Ah Dibble. Sometimes da cops just see someone and their "6th sense" goes all haywire mate, resulting in a wrong decision to pull someone, or try to.
Certainly thats my experience.
Ive been pulled ****** times with a further ** failed attempts to stop me( outruns )
(some years ago).
Despite having NO criminal record, driving a taxed, insured, and mot'd vehicle at the times in question.
So whyd they pick on me? Simple. Cos the car wasnt finished off in a gleaming paint colour! "Wow, 6th sense is tellin me we have a bad un here! "....... wrong!
Certainly thats my experience.
Ive been pulled ****** times with a further ** failed attempts to stop me( outruns )
(some years ago). Despite having NO criminal record, driving a taxed, insured, and mot'd vehicle at the times in question.
So whyd they pick on me? Simple. Cos the car wasnt finished off in a gleaming paint colour! "Wow, 6th sense is tellin me we have a bad un here! "....... wrong!
Streetcop said:
....but people who get stopped over 40 times by the police in a short space of time makes me suspicious..
Is that what counts as modern detection techniques nowadays?
In reality how can you legitimately get stopped over 40 times.......but nothing comes of it.
Are the cops involved targeting him, are the cops simply applying a flawed profiling technique that leads to him, or is there something else.
Richard C said:
I don't know the Rallye but the S16 had about 195 bhp.
just me being picky but the rallye was the 167bhp XU10 2.0 16v engine, with 6spd box - the s16 was the 155bhp xu10 mi16 engine (out of the phase 2 405 Mi16).
no NA 16v peugeot has put out 195bhp, even the EW10 206 GTi-180 lump only puts out 178bhp!
anyways, that's bye the bye - what happened here was uncalled for, I've been involved with plod around that area before and they've been fine, but then again I've had some right bad apples from other forces, good luck with the court case etc - I won one in similar circumstances (albeit not against the police) and the prosecution dropped a testicle (well, if she had any - looked like a bloke so it's definately possible!) when both hers and her witness statments were read out, word for word (and were identical, word for word)!
>> Edited by CB-Dave on Friday 12th November 12:00
Evolution666, I'm not sure if you drive an EVO, but as you know this is quite a conspicuous car. If every copper in the NE is looking out for you why not change the car. Get another similar model EVO or whatever, but make sure its a different colour and not the same plate (if you have a private plate). It would probably make life much easier for you!
Same thing happened to my kid brother in Torquay, although on a much much smaller scale and he lost his license through totting up by his own foolish mistake (he saw the Police begin to turn around and nipped up a few back roads to get home around 1AM, top of a hill towards his house they caught him at 45ish in a 30 limit on a radar gun - yes at 1AM on a suburban no through road - he was a plonker, but the Police were definitely out to get him). When he got another car the problem disappeared.
Same thing happened to my kid brother in Torquay, although on a much much smaller scale and he lost his license through totting up by his own foolish mistake (he saw the Police begin to turn around and nipped up a few back roads to get home around 1AM, top of a hill towards his house they caught him at 45ish in a 30 limit on a radar gun - yes at 1AM on a suburban no through road - he was a plonker, but the Police were definitely out to get him). When he got another car the problem disappeared.
ws6 said:
Good lawyer is the way. Ever thought of keeping a video camera in the car ? Even for just over a 100 quid you could hook-up a small security camera, video recoder in the boot (with a voltage inverter)??
I've been looking at getting a Sanyo Xacti camera - £180 from HK on ebay and records onto flash memory (nothing to break or wear out). Trouble is I suspect the low light quality would be dodgy but a couple of IR spotlamps on the roof would sort that out!
Gareth
Best of luck anyway, as mentioned you need to keep an eye on your solictor and make certain they are good enough to pull apart the witnesses if, as you suspect, they will "get the story straight" before they go in.
I think that the "smoke and screeching" might go down well, because as far as I know (!) tyres just make a scrubbing noise on a wet road that you would be lucky to hear in another car.
Gareth
I think that the "smoke and screeching" might go down well, because as far as I know (!) tyres just make a scrubbing noise on a wet road that you would be lucky to hear in another car.
Gareth
Streetcop said:
I think the real reason why I put the laughing smilie was that I didn't think he'd have a chance at a proper complaint being solved.
I think that kinda makes it worse ?
If what your getting at is right, because those that have stopped him have done so "lawfully" they can carry on doing so, as much as they like ? There surely should be a point at which it becomes persecution ?
P.S. Do the police still play Car Snooker ? Where by a red car will be stopped (1point) followed by a "colour" IE snooker points, Best drive a white car as that’s 4 points away
targarama said:
Evolution666, I'm not sure if you drive an EVO, but as you know this is quite a conspicuous car. If every copper in the NE is looking out for you why not change the car. Get another similar model EVO or whatever, but make sure its a different colour and not the same plate (if you have a private plate). It would probably make life much easier for you!
THATS NOT THE POINT ! As posted before, I drove probably the loudest most conspicuous car at just 20, and would on some occasions get two or three producers in the same evening !! Surely as long as we are legally doing so, we should be able to drive what the hell we want, where we want and when we want !
Streetcop said:
I notice SC has gone extremely quiet.
but people who get stopped over 40 times by the police in a short space of time makes me suspicious
>> Edited by Streetcop on Friday 12th November 10:35
When I bought a BMW 320 a few years ago, having previously never been stopped, I suddenly found myself being stopped over once a month for a period of 2 years by the Bib. The car was unmodified, solid red, and in good condition for 9yrs old. The Bib never said there was anything wrong with my driving, never found anything wrong with the car, never gave a producer.
Was it the car? was it my appearance (I'm anglo indian) or the combination of a youngish (apparently) asian driver in a decent car? Stops were both day and night.
When I swapped it for a black 530 I didn't get stopped anymore.
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