Headbutted whilst working (Bus Driver)
Discussion
Countdown said:
AndrewEH1 said:
IntriguedUser said:
So I was involved in a minor prang today, I pulled away from a bus stop, on a two-way single lane road, and a stupid prat in a Vauxhall Vectra was still trying to overtake, he had to cut in front off the bus as to not hit the opposing traffic. When we were both stationary his car was clearly still on the wrong side of the road.
From what you've written here the accident was your fault. I hate when buses seemly pull out without looking when you are half way through overtaking...No excuse for assault though!
vonhosen said:
They don't 'have' to pull out into traffic 'forcing' the other traffic to alter course/speed, they might 'choose' to however.
They can if they wish put an indicator on & wait for a gap or until someone lets them out.
Or they may already have pulled out and somebody still wants to overtake them because the bus is doing 10 mph, they're doing 45mph and, what the hell, they'll probably get past in time because they usually do.They can if they wish put an indicator on & wait for a gap or until someone lets them out.
Countdown said:
vonhosen said:
Wanting to do something & being able to do something are different things. The signal is what you'd like to do, it infers no right to be able to do it.
I don't disagree with that bit. My point is more about overtakes AFTER the bus has pulled out.What you shouldn't be doing is entering the flow of traffic 'forcing' others to alter course or speed (just like you shouldn't if you'd entered the road from a side road).
vonhosen said:
Countdown said:
vonhosen said:
Wanting to do something & being able to do something are different things. The signal is what you'd like to do, it infers no right to be able to do it.
I don't disagree with that bit. My point is more about overtakes AFTER the bus has pulled out.What you shouldn't be doing is entering the flow of traffic 'forcing' others to alter course or speed (just like you shouldn't if you'd entered the road from a side road).
king a bus driver for bullying his way into traffic recently.Edited by 9mm on Sunday 16th August 16:11
Breadvan72 said:
you might as well say you dislike all greengrocers on principle because one once sold you a mouldy banana) to influence their views on what should happen after a bloke who was doing his job (ineptly or otherwise) was head butted by a goon.
fk the bendy yellow things - I'ts the mouldy cabbages that really get me angry!!' Edited by anonymous-user on Sunday 16th August 16:06
CaptainMorgan said:
Theres a difference of who should be doing what depending on if the stop is a layby type stop or a stop on the carriageway of the road, I can see anywhere where the OP has said what the situation was regarding this.
There isn't any difference on whether a bus driver is at liberty to just pull into flowing traffic 'forcing' it to alter course or direction.vonhosen said:
There isn't any difference on whether a bus driver is at liberty to just pull into flowing traffic 'forcing' it to alter course or direction.
Thats what I'm saying, if the stop is just at the side of the road without a layby to pull into then the traffic isnt 'flowing' as the bus is obstructing the road. My general rule for this situation is to stick my right hand indicator on when I'm ready to leave, I allow 2 cars to go round me and release the brake so I'm slowly rolling along, then allow another 3 cars to overtake what is now my slowly moving bus and move off. This gives anyone up to 5 cars behind me to pass while I'm signalling to move off. Most of the time the 3rd or 4th car flashes me and I'm good to go. If the stop was in a layby then I'd expect to just sit and wait until flashed out or a gap large enough for me to pull out onto the road and away without causing anyone to slow or move. Of course if the place is anything like out place thats hard work with them putting most of the bus stops on the main roads after a bend/exit of a roundabout, resulting in lost of bus/car conflicts.
Big difference there imo.
CaptainMorgan said:
vonhosen said:
There isn't any difference on whether a bus driver is at liberty to just pull into flowing traffic 'forcing' it to alter course or direction.
Thats what I'm saying, if the stop is just at the side of the road without a layby to pull into then the traffic isnt 'flowing' as the bus is obstructing the road. My general rule for this situation is to stick my right hand indicator on when I'm ready to leave, I allow 2 cars to go round me and release the brake so I'm slowly rolling along, then allow another 3 cars to overtake what is now my slowly moving bus and move off. This gives anyone up to 5 cars behind me to pass while I'm signalling to move off. Most of the time the 2nd or 3rd car flashes me and I'm good to go. If the stop was in a layby then I'd expect to just sit and wait until flashed out or a gap large enough for me to pull out onto the road and away without causing anyone to slow or move. Of course if the place is anything like out place thats hard work with them putting most of the bus stops on the main roads after a bend/exit of a roundabout, resulting in lost of bus/car conflicts.
Big difference there imo.
If you did what you've described on your PCV test you'd fail it.
CaptainMorgan said:
vonhosen said:
There isn't any difference on whether a bus driver is at liberty to just pull into flowing traffic 'forcing' it to alter course or direction.
Thats what I'm saying, if the stop is just at the side of the road without a layby to pull into then the traffic isnt 'flowing' as the bus is obstructing the road. My general rule for this situation is to stick my right hand indicator on when I'm ready to leave, I allow 2 cars to go round me and release the brake so I'm slowly rolling along, then allow another 3 cars to overtake what is now my slowly moving bus and move off. This gives anyone up to 5 cars behind me to pass while I'm signalling to move off. Most of the time the 3rd or 4th car flashes me and I'm good to go. If the stop was in a layby then I'd expect to just sit and wait until flashed out or a gap large enough for me to pull out onto the road and away without causing anyone to slow or move. Of course if the place is anything like out place thats hard work with them putting most of the bus stops on the main roads after a bend/exit of a roundabout, resulting in lost of bus/car conflicts.
Big difference there imo.
vonhosen said:
If the traffic is comfortably passing the bus pulled up at the side of the road then it is, just the same as if it was any other parked vehicle at the side of the road.
If you did what you've described on your PCV test you'd fail it.
If you did what you've described on your PCV test you'd fail it.
If I done what I done on my PCV test I'd never get anywhere. With the same though, if I was on my car test and overtook a bus pulling away from a stop I'd fail that too. CaptainMorgan said:
vonhosen said:
If the traffic is comfortably passing the bus pulled up at the side of the road then it is, just the same as if it was any other parked vehicle at the side of the road.
If you did what you've described on your PCV test you'd fail it.
If you did what you've described on your PCV test you'd fail it.
If I done what I done on my PCV test I'd never get anywhere. With the same though, if I was on my car test and overtook a bus pulling away from a stop I'd fail that too. Edited by vonhosen on Sunday 16th August 16:47
9mm said:
In the first scenario, if a continuous stream of cars are able to overtake you when you are stationary, then you are trying to pull into moving traffic and should wait. Slightly different if cars behind you are only only able to pass singly or in small groups but the onus is on you not to force anyone to alter course or speed. I'm sure it's frustrating at times, same as it is when trying to join a busy main road from a side road but that's life.
If it literally is a constant stream of cars passing nose to tail then yeah, I'd have to just wait until I could see a gap. Normally the cars are grouped so there's gaps in them, thankfully most people keep a reasonable gap to the car in front, thats when I use the above rule. Edited by CaptainMorgan on Sunday 16th August 16:53
vonhosen said:
It's the standard expected, you can't dodge it to make your life easier & your journey quicker, just like a delivery driver can't do the same for the same reasons. If a bus pulled off in front of you on your car test you wouldn't fail it because of it, any more than if a bus had pulled out of a side road in front of you. the onus is on traffic going to wait for a safe gap & not 'force' other established to alter course or speed.
The examiner him self could distinguish situations where you would appraching things differently depending on if you were on your test or in service, we had a chat about one such incident after me test. As for the car, of course you'd fail if you overtook a bus thats signalling and moving off. If it was stationary then no, but if you arrive behind it and it's already moving off as I've described you'd be expected to continue behind it not try and pass it. Bearing in mind, by the time you're behind it, it has signalled and waited for several cars to pass, then started moving off
CaptainMorgan said:
vonhosen said:
It's the standard expected, you can't dodge it to make your life easier & your journey quicker, just like a delivery driver can't do the same for the same reasons. If a bus pulled off in front of you on your car test you wouldn't fail it because of it, any more than if a bus had pulled out of a side road in front of you. the onus is on traffic going to wait for a safe gap & not 'force' other established to alter course or speed.
The examiner him self could distinguish situations where you would appraching things differently depending on if you were on your test or in service, we had a chat about one such incident after me test. As for the car, of course you'd fail if you overtook a bus thats signalling and moving off. If it was stationary then no, but if you arrive behind it and it's already moving off as I've described you'd be expected to continue behind it not try and pass it.
If the bus is stopped to the side of the road with an indicator on, a car driver wouldn't fail on test passing it.
If as the car driver is approaching said bus & it moves off causing the car driver to alter course or speed, the fault lays with the bus driver. Of course the car driver would be expected on test to do what was necessary to avoid a collision (no different to any other vehicle moving off in such a situation), but they wouldn't fail for having not stopped to let the bus out when it was signalling.
It is the responsibility of the driver wishing to enter the road or move off, to ensure there is a safe & appropriate gap to do so (one where you aren't 'forcing' others to alter course or speed). If someone lets you out (on test or not) all well & good. If they don't let you out you have no exemption to force your way out.
Edited by vonhosen on Sunday 16th August 17:01
vonhosen said:
If the bus is stopped to the side of the road with an indicator on, a car driver wouldn't fail on test passing it.
If as the car driver is approaching said bus & it moves off causing the car driver to alter course or speed, the fault lays with the bus driver. Of course the car driver would be expected on test to do what was necessary to avoid a collision (no different to any other vehicle moving off in such a situation), but they wouldn't fail for having not stopped to let the bus out when it was signalling.
I agree with all of that, the situation I'm attempting to explain is if the car approaches a bus that has moved off before the car has overtaken or moved out in preparation to overtake. Look at the situation I originally explained, not the first 3 cars that pass, the next group that are passing after the bus has moved away. If as the car driver is approaching said bus & it moves off causing the car driver to alter course or speed, the fault lays with the bus driver. Of course the car driver would be expected on test to do what was necessary to avoid a collision (no different to any other vehicle moving off in such a situation), but they wouldn't fail for having not stopped to let the bus out when it was signalling.
CaptainMorgan said:
vonhosen said:
If the bus is stopped to the side of the road with an indicator on, a car driver wouldn't fail on test passing it.
If as the car driver is approaching said bus & it moves off causing the car driver to alter course or speed, the fault lays with the bus driver. Of course the car driver would be expected on test to do what was necessary to avoid a collision (no different to any other vehicle moving off in such a situation), but they wouldn't fail for having not stopped to let the bus out when it was signalling.
I agree with all of that, the situation I'm attempting to explain is if the car approaches a bus that has moved off before the car has overtaken or moved out in preparation to overtake. Look at the situation I originally explained, not the first 3 cars that pass, the next group that are passing after the bus has moved away. If as the car driver is approaching said bus & it moves off causing the car driver to alter course or speed, the fault lays with the bus driver. Of course the car driver would be expected on test to do what was necessary to avoid a collision (no different to any other vehicle moving off in such a situation), but they wouldn't fail for having not stopped to let the bus out when it was signalling.
If they first yield to allow you out, that's fine, but you can't force the issue.
vonhosen said:
Even if they haven't yet overtaken, they shouldn't have to alter course or speed because of you entering, that's the crux of it.
If they first yield to allow you out, that's fine, but you can't force the issue.
And 'Do not overtake where you might come into conflict with other road users. For example when a road user is indicating right, even if you believe the signal should have been cancelled. Do not take a risk; wait for the signal to be cancelled'If they first yield to allow you out, that's fine, but you can't force the issue.
The bus has already entered, they're just overtaking now. If the bus just pulled straight out with a car alongside then I would be in agreement, but once the bus has pulled out, it's just a slow moving vehicle. There's only so far you can peddle the idea that another vehicles speed shouldn't be altered, it's a slow vehicle, at some point it will make someone slow down, it'd never pull away otherwise. Very rarely does a vehicle indicate to go round, in which case I'd say the bus isnt altering their course either, short of having a crystal ball to read their mind.
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