Ched Evans rape conviction quashed
Discussion
bmw535i said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
I don't think he understands what blackmail is.
Blackmail - Give me something I'm not entitled to, or I will do something unpleasant to you (usually illegal) that you don't deserve. Eg. Pay me £1m, or I will kill your family member I am holding hostage.
Statement of fact - If you employ a convicted rapist, I want my name removed from your stand as I will wish to end my association with you.
You may agree or disagree with JEH's stance, but blackmail it ain't.
Er I think your scenario is more akin to kidnap and extortion. Blackmail - Give me something I'm not entitled to, or I will do something unpleasant to you (usually illegal) that you don't deserve. Eg. Pay me £1m, or I will kill your family member I am holding hostage.
Statement of fact - If you employ a convicted rapist, I want my name removed from your stand as I will wish to end my association with you.
You may agree or disagree with JEH's stance, but blackmail it ain't.
You definitely don't understand what blackmail is
Blackmail said:
Blackmail.
(1) A person is guilty of blackmail if, with a view to gain for himself or another or with intent to cause loss to another, he makes any unwarranted demand with menaces; and for this purpose a demand with menaces is unwarranted unless the person making it does so in the belief —
(a) that he has reasonable grounds for making the demand; and
(b) that the use of the menaces is a proper means of reinforcing the demand.
(2) The nature of the act or omission demanded is immaterial, and it is also immaterial whether the menaces relate to action to be taken by the person making the demand.
(3) A person guilty of blackmail shall on conviction on indictment be liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding fourteen years.
(1) A person is guilty of blackmail if, with a view to gain for himself or another or with intent to cause loss to another, he makes any unwarranted demand with menaces; and for this purpose a demand with menaces is unwarranted unless the person making it does so in the belief —
(a) that he has reasonable grounds for making the demand; and
(b) that the use of the menaces is a proper means of reinforcing the demand.
(2) The nature of the act or omission demanded is immaterial, and it is also immaterial whether the menaces relate to action to be taken by the person making the demand.
(3) A person guilty of blackmail shall on conviction on indictment be liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding fourteen years.
La Liga said:
bmw535i said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
I don't think he understands what blackmail is.
Blackmail - Give me something I'm not entitled to, or I will do something unpleasant to you (usually illegal) that you don't deserve. Eg. Pay me £1m, or I will kill your family member I am holding hostage.
Statement of fact - If you employ a convicted rapist, I want my name removed from your stand as I will wish to end my association with you.
You may agree or disagree with JEH's stance, but blackmail it ain't.
Er I think your scenario is more akin to kidnap and extortion. Blackmail - Give me something I'm not entitled to, or I will do something unpleasant to you (usually illegal) that you don't deserve. Eg. Pay me £1m, or I will kill your family member I am holding hostage.
Statement of fact - If you employ a convicted rapist, I want my name removed from your stand as I will wish to end my association with you.
You may agree or disagree with JEH's stance, but blackmail it ain't.
You definitely don't understand what blackmail is
Blackmail said:
Blackmail.
(1) A person is guilty of blackmail if, with a view to gain for himself or another or with intent to cause loss to another, he makes any unwarranted demand with menaces; and for this purpose a demand with menaces is unwarranted unless the person making it does so in the belief —
(a) that he has reasonable grounds for making the demand; and
(b) that the use of the menaces is a proper means of reinforcing the demand.
(2) The nature of the act or omission demanded is immaterial, and it is also immaterial whether the menaces relate to action to be taken by the person making the demand.
(3) A person guilty of blackmail shall on conviction on indictment be liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding fourteen years.
(1) A person is guilty of blackmail if, with a view to gain for himself or another or with intent to cause loss to another, he makes any unwarranted demand with menaces; and for this purpose a demand with menaces is unwarranted unless the person making it does so in the belief —
(a) that he has reasonable grounds for making the demand; and
(b) that the use of the menaces is a proper means of reinforcing the demand.
(2) The nature of the act or omission demanded is immaterial, and it is also immaterial whether the menaces relate to action to be taken by the person making the demand.
(3) A person guilty of blackmail shall on conviction on indictment be liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding fourteen years.
La Liga said:
bmw535i said:
Ah I see you've edited your post - which essentially now agrees with mine 
Yeah, apart from the fundamental inaccuracy in your post: bmw535i said:
You definitely don't understand what blackmail is
Why are you desperate to defend twig?
http://criminal-law.freeadvice.com/criminal-law/wh...
http://www.marymonson.co.uk/criminal-solicitors/bl...
Thought I'd better find a UK site for you
We seem to have gone down a rabbit hole here, but at least twig will now know the difference
Thought I'd better find a UK site for you
We seem to have gone down a rabbit hole here, but at least twig will now know the difference
bmw535i said:
http://www.marymonson.co.uk/criminal-solicitors/bl...
Thought I'd better find a UK site for you
We seem to have gone down a rabbit hole here, but at least twig will now know the difference
Thought I'd better find a UK site for you
We seem to have gone down a rabbit hole here, but at least twig will now know the difference
MaryMonson said:
Blackmail is demanding something from someone and then gaining from this demand. The demand must be unwarranted and ‘with menaces’ – a threat from the blackmailer to do something for not agreeing to the demand. The threat doesn’t have to be something illegal and doesn’t even have to be true.
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Eg. Pay me £1m, or I will kill your family member I am holding hostage.
La Liga said:
bmw535i said:
http://www.marymonson.co.uk/criminal-solicitors/bl...
Thought I'd better find a UK site for you
We seem to have gone down a rabbit hole here, but at least twig will now know the difference
Thought I'd better find a UK site for you
We seem to have gone down a rabbit hole here, but at least twig will now know the difference
MaryMonson said:
Blackmail is demanding something from someone and then gaining from this demand. The demand must be unwarranted and ‘with menaces’ – a threat from the blackmailer to do something for not agreeing to the demand. The threat doesn’t have to be something illegal and doesn’t even have to be true.
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Eg. Pay me £1m, or I will kill your family member I am holding hostage.
When violence is threatened, it's extortion.
MaryMonson said:
"Extortion is similar to blackmail. It involves obtaining money, property or services from another through threats of physical harm: “pay up or else” is an example. Protection rackets are a form of extortion."
Does behaviour have to meet the criminal standard to be covered by the description?
A reasonable person could come to the conclusion Ennis was blackmailing the club. Effectively, don't do something to which you're otherwise entitled, or I'll do something that'll negatively affect you. As far as I'm aware, Ennis had no executive power at the club, wasn't responsible for hiring or firing or otherwise controlling the sporting or financial performance of the club. She used her status as an Olympian, club ambassador and celebrity to force the club into submission.
I've little sympathy for Ched Evans, he put himself in a silly position, however there's a whole list of people who all fell over one another to be the holiest than thou, which is a terrible modern trait played out through media outlets desperate to fill empty space with any old s
t.
A reasonable person could come to the conclusion Ennis was blackmailing the club. Effectively, don't do something to which you're otherwise entitled, or I'll do something that'll negatively affect you. As far as I'm aware, Ennis had no executive power at the club, wasn't responsible for hiring or firing or otherwise controlling the sporting or financial performance of the club. She used her status as an Olympian, club ambassador and celebrity to force the club into submission.
I've little sympathy for Ched Evans, he put himself in a silly position, however there's a whole list of people who all fell over one another to be the holiest than thou, which is a terrible modern trait played out through media outlets desperate to fill empty space with any old s
t. bmw535i said:
Bigends said:
No such recordable offence as extortion in the UK - unwarranted demands with menaces is simple Blackmail
"Blackmail" and "demanding with menaces with intent" are separate recordable offences.An extract from the Police recording rules
“A person is guilty of blackmail if, with a view to gain for himself or another or with intent to cause
loss to another, he makes any unwarranted demand with menaces; and for this purpose a demand
with menaces is unwarranted unless the person making it does so in the belief-
(a) that he has reasonable grounds for making the demand; and
(b) that the use of the menaces is a proper means of reinforcing the demand.
(2) The nature of the act or omission demanded is immaterial, and it is also immaterial whether the
menaces relate to action to be taken by the person making the demand ...”.
bmw535i said:
La Liga said:
bmw535i said:
http://www.marymonson.co.uk/criminal-solicitors/bl...
Thought I'd better find a UK site for you
We seem to have gone down a rabbit hole here, but at least twig will now know the difference
Thought I'd better find a UK site for you
We seem to have gone down a rabbit hole here, but at least twig will now know the difference
MaryMonson said:
Blackmail is demanding something from someone and then gaining from this demand. The demand must be unwarranted and ‘with menaces’ – a threat from the blackmailer to do something for not agreeing to the demand. The threat doesn’t have to be something illegal and doesn’t even have to be true.
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Eg. Pay me £1m, or I will kill your family member I am holding hostage.
When violence is threatened, it's extortion.
MaryMonson said:
"Extortion is similar to blackmail. It involves obtaining money, property or services from another through threats of physical harm: “pay up or else” is an example. Protection rackets are a form of extortion."
bmw535i said:
Bigends said:
No such recordable offence as extortion in the UK - unwarranted demands with menaces is simple Blackmail
"Blackmail" and "demanding with menaces with intent" are separate recordable offences.Keep going. You know best.
La Liga said:
bmw535i said:
La Liga said:
bmw535i said:
http://www.marymonson.co.uk/criminal-solicitors/bl...
Thought I'd better find a UK site for you
We seem to have gone down a rabbit hole here, but at least twig will now know the difference
Thought I'd better find a UK site for you
We seem to have gone down a rabbit hole here, but at least twig will now know the difference
MaryMonson said:
Blackmail is demanding something from someone and then gaining from this demand. The demand must be unwarranted and ‘with menaces’ – a threat from the blackmailer to do something for not agreeing to the demand. The threat doesn’t have to be something illegal and doesn’t even have to be true.
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Eg. Pay me £1m, or I will kill your family member I am holding hostage.
When violence is threatened, it's extortion.
MaryMonson said:
"Extortion is similar to blackmail. It involves obtaining money, property or services from another through threats of physical harm: “pay up or else” is an example. Protection rackets are a form of extortion."
bmw535i said:
Bigends said:
No such recordable offence as extortion in the UK - unwarranted demands with menaces is simple Blackmail
"Blackmail" and "demanding with menaces with intent" are separate recordable offences.Keep going. You know best.
Words are hard aren't they
Please quote me where I've stated extortion is a recordable offence.....
By the way, I don't believe JEH committed blackmail. I'm not really sure why you began your quest to win the Internet
bmw535i said:
"Blackmail" and "demanding with menaces with intent" are separate recordable offences.
There you go, although I'm unsure what you mean by "demanding with menaces with intent - that is just gibberish .If I were you I'd stop digging/ being argumentative.
You just come across as a massive bell end. HTH.
Edited by Red 4 on Tuesday 18th October 22:05
Red 4 said:
bmw535i said:
"Blackmail" and "demanding with menaces with intent" are separate recordable offences.
There you go.If I were you I'd stop digging/ being argumentative.
You just come across as a massive bell end. HTH.
Are you demanding I stop posting..........with menaces
Are you saying that "demanding with menaces with intent" is extortion?
Red 4 said:
There you go, although I'm unsure what you mean by "demanding with menaces with intent - that is just gibberish .
If I were you I'd stop digging/ being argumentative.
You just come across as a massive bell end. HTH.
I'll just address your edit and refer you to the screenshot I sent. Gibberish it may be, but they're not my words. If I were you I'd stop digging/ being argumentative.
You just come across as a massive bell end. HTH.
Edited by Red 4 on Tuesday 18th October 22:05
Why get involved and make yourself look a massive bellend?
You've posted a screenshot which quotes, "Violating king's eldest daughter", as a supposed "recordable offence".
What's the source? I suspect it's not quite what you think.
Here's the site for recordable offences: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/countin...
1) Twig posted some hypothetical circumstances to describe blackmail.
2) You told Twig he / she didn't understand what blackmail was.
3) I pointed out the circumstances fitted the offence of blackmail.
At that point you had a choice. The choice you made was to go on a Googlefest and try and prove the circumstances would amount to 'extortion'.
The problem there is that extortion isn't an offence.
What's the source? I suspect it's not quite what you think.
Here's the site for recordable offences: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/countin...
bmw535i said:
What are you trying to prove and why?
Words are hard aren't they
It's no more complicated than pointing out an inaccuracy. If I said something incorrect about the Army I'm sure you'd point it out. Words are hard aren't they
1) Twig posted some hypothetical circumstances to describe blackmail.
2) You told Twig he / she didn't understand what blackmail was.
3) I pointed out the circumstances fitted the offence of blackmail.
At that point you had a choice. The choice you made was to go on a Googlefest and try and prove the circumstances would amount to 'extortion'.
The problem there is that extortion isn't an offence.
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