M25 cameras - warning from BIB friend

[SS2.]

andyuk911's extract said:

Digital speed enforcement equipment will be used to automatically enforce variable speed limits (including national speed limit).

I suspect that any conditions specific for type approval, as laid down by the Home Office, would easily trump a background paper from the Highways Agency..

[Funk]

So there's a chance that it won't be operational when NSL is in force?

[SS2.]

Funk said:

So there's a chance that it won't be operational when NSL is in force?

If it is HADECS which is being installed on the M25 (and the Highways Agency have 'confirmed' this to be the case), then the Home Office would be required to amend the conditions of type approval before any photos produced by the system would be admissible as evidence of alleged speeding offences which occurred when the limit was above 60mph.

[Chrisgr31]

It does say in AndyUK911's post which is presumably a copy from somewhere else that HADECS is designed to enforce speed limits set by variable limit signs.

If the National Limit applies thenthere is no limit set or displayed by the variable speed limit signs, therefore inferring the cameras are not operating.

[Hendry]

So do we have anything firmer than speculation? If not then we could be about to...

A friend of mine called me in a panic this morning as she has just heard about the camerasm having ripped round that section of the M25 (Heathrow to reigate) at around 90 on Saturday afternoon.

We wait to see whether a NIP falls through her letterbox.

If anyone knows any more on this I'd like to pass information on, as she goes away in a few days.

[fastfreddy]

Hendry said:

So do we have anything firmer than speculation? If not then we could be about to...

A friend of mine called me in a panic this morning as she has just heard about the camerasm having ripped round that section of the M25 (Heathrow to reigate) at around 90 on Saturday afternoon.

We wait to see whether a NIP falls through her letterbox.

If anyone knows any more on this I'd like to pass information on, as she goes away in a few days.

From what I've seen so far, it's pure speculation based on the report that the cameras are being upgraded to digital from film. I've seen references to this 'tip off' on various forums and it has all the hallmarks of viral 'Chinese whispers'.

As I've said before, I think this sort of scare-mongering can be counter productive and will actually cause congestion on that stretch of M25 through panic braking to slow down immediately before a gantry.

[phillvr6]

I tavelled between junctions 11 and 15 today, there have been no changes in radar activity on this stretch. Although there are active cameras as ther always have been.

Phill

[Smiler.]

andyuk911 said:

I would like to be clear about what cameras we are talking about. AND yes I was NOT moving when the pixs were taken)

These are the cameras near the A3 Turn off.

I have seen these flash when a speed is posted.

I have also seen these flash twice when I car goes over 100mph .. (Mr ML driver !)

There seems to be no reports of people receiving tickets ..

They do indeed work & NIP's are issued (>100mph).

[JonRB]

Chrisgr31 said:

My understanding was that the variable limit cameras are only type approved to work when a variable limit is showing. I think someone who helped develop the software for them posted on here years ago.

As far as I am aware, only one person developed the software for that system and that was me. And I don't recall saying that. In fact, on the contrary, the system is capable of enforcing NSL and it's entirely down to the operators as to whether or not it does.

Originally it wasn't going to. A change to the specification came through whilst I was writing the control software and it had to be added in (it wasn't a big deal to do so, to be honest, as it was just another index in an array although I think there was an enabling flag as well that had to be added).

I wasn't best pleased at the time as I had justified the project in my mind on the grounds that it was endeavouring to improve the traffic flow on the M25 rather than simply be a speed trap.

The system is designed to have a threshold of 0-99 mph for each speed limit (Lane closed, 10, 20, 30, 40, 50, 60 and NSL) so for NSL the actual enforcement speed could be anything from 70 mph to 169 mph. It's all down to the operators as to what it is set to and, in the case of NSL, whether it is enabled or not.

All seems so long ago now, and indeed it is. I think it's 11 years now since I wrote that code.

[John57]

The email that has been doing the rounds is a fake .... principal is right but no dates / times decided - or exact method. It is all still to be decided.

[andyuk911]

Smiler. said:

andyuk911 said:

I would like to be clear about what cameras we are talking about. AND yes I was NOT moving when the pixs were taken)

These are the cameras near the A3 Turn off.

I have seen these flash when a speed is posted.

I have also seen these flash twice when I car goes over 100mph .. (Mr ML driver !)

There seems to be no reports of people receiving tickets ..

They do indeed work & NIP's are issued (>100mph).

Never heard of any ... can you pm the details ... was this long ago ??

[streaky]

TrueFacts.co.uk said:

There are 60 newcameras that start operating on the M25 on Monday 14 June 2001. These are between the A3 and M40. They are digital and linked direct to computer, use no film or flashgun. They can deal with 60,000 tickets EVERY HOUR. The cameras are also (apparently) linked and can workout your average speed between them.

The article was dated 14 June 2001.

I recall similar warnings in the late 1990s, with pictures of the gantries on the A3/M3 stretch showing "mysterious" new aerials - to "transmit the pictures to the next gantry so your speed can be compared".

As ever with these things, a mixture of fact and fantasy.

Streaky

[Smiler.]

andyuk911 said:

Smiler. said:

andyuk911 said:

I would like to be clear about what cameras we are talking about. AND yes I was NOT moving when the pixs were taken)

These are the cameras near the A3 Turn off.

I have seen these flash when a speed is posted.

I have also seen these flash twice when I car goes over 100mph .. (Mr ML driver !)

There seems to be no reports of people receiving tickets ..

They do indeed work & NIP's are issued (>100mph).

Never heard of any ... can you pm the details ... was this long ago ??

June 1998. 105mph.

Since then, I have only seen them flash when the variable limit is in force.

Edit to say: Lesson learnt

Edited by Smiler. on Wednesday 20th February 10:30

[andyuk911]

Nearly 10 years then ... I think the film may have run out .... LOL


This seems to be testing down the M20 near J5/J6

http://www.peek-traffic.co.uk/products/nmcs2.htm#h...

[SNooPER]

fastfreddy said:

Hendry said:

So do we have anything firmer than speculation? If not then we could be about to...

A friend of mine called me in a panic this morning as she has just heard about the camerasm having ripped round that section of the M25 (Heathrow to reigate) at around 90 on Saturday afternoon.

We wait to see whether a NIP falls through her letterbox.

If anyone knows any more on this I'd like to pass information on, as she goes away in a few days.

From what I've seen so far, it's pure speculation based on the report that the cameras are being upgraded to digital from film. I've seen references to this 'tip off' on various forums and it has all the hallmarks of viral 'Chinese whispers'.

As I've said before, I think this sort of scare-mongering can be counter productive and will actually cause congestion on that stretch of M25 through panic braking to slow down immediately before a gantry.

I received this email the other day and was very skeptical about it. I drive the M3 - Heathrow section twice a day and the camera housings on this stretch are still empty after the M25 widening project there. The reason why I think this email is 50% true and 50% scaremongering is because all they are doing is upgrading the current analogue cameras to digital so the film never runs out. These cameras still operate on radar and are really obvious in the overhead gantry's like near the A3 junction. I also use an S5R Snooper and I get no readings on this stretch at all.

I notice that some people claim to have seen small cameras mounted in the signs themselves, these are just lights and are certainly not cameras. If you look at the specs systems they are CCTV like with infra red functions attached to the side, normally mounted in pairs depending on the number of lanes. There are green cameras on some gantrys on this stretch but they are traffic flow monitoring systems only. SPECS is in use on the M3 from the M25 junction southbound and this system is operational, a friend of mine got a ticket last month so be careful here its a 50mph limit!

Edited by SNooPER on Thursday 21st February 18:52

[JonRB]

So long as the digital Gatso system uses the same commands and protocol as the analogue system, and has a similar physical size and layout, there is no reason at all why the M25 system couldn't be upgraded. The Gatso camera system is a black box as far as "my" software is concerned. It tells the Gatso when to enforce and at what speed, and receives offence data from it whilst it is enforcing. So that's quite plausible.

[flemke]

Was on this stretch of M25 today, with temporary 40 limit posted on matrix signs. I was going slowly on a slip road, but as cars on the main road flew past me, in the mirror I could see the cameras flashing away like mad.

[GruntHead]

flemke said:

Was on this stretch of M25 today, with temporary 40 limit posted on matrix signs. I was going slowly on a slip road, but as cars on the main road flew past me, in the mirror I could see the cameras flashing away like mad.

We'll expect a mountain of people on here complaining about how unfair it is that they're getting done for speeding etc, then

[Mon Ami Mate]

Honestly chaps, my original source for this was VERY reliable indeed, otherwise I wouldn't have bothered posting. I'm sure this is genuine.

[SS2.]

Mon Ami Mate said:

Honestly chaps, my original source for this was VERY reliable indeed, otherwise I wouldn't have bothered posting. I'm sure this is genuine.

Hmm. I think I'll reserve judgment until I see a NIP issued for an alleged 79mph when NSL is in effect.

The Highways Agency has confirmed that HADECS is being installed - and HADECS is not (currently) type approved for enforcement of speed limits above 60mph.