calibrated speedometers

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Discussion

jith

Original Poster:

2,752 posts

216 months

Tuesday 29th September 2009
quotequote all
ipsg.glf said:
saaby93 said:
ipsg.glf said:
Do you really think that Police Officers would put their job, pension and liberty at stake for the sake of catching a speeding motorist, who did not seem to endanger anyone in the process?
Afraid that for whatever reason, heat of moment, bored, trouble at home, it happens - but rarely hopefully. You're lucky if you've not been close to being on the wrong end of it, but it is just the luck of the draw. Once it's happened sometime they'll quietly drop it other times continue with it to try to save face.
It's a reason to keep judge and jury separate from evidence gathering.
Have you an actual evidence for those claims, though?

Judge and Jury? what are you on about? Police gather evidence. Courts determine guilt.
I have folders full of evidence ipsg, but before I comment further, would you mind telling me why you resigned from the IAM last year, and in return I will tell you why I did the same several years ago.

saaby93

32,038 posts

179 months

Tuesday 29th September 2009
quotequote all
Apologies to anyone that might be thinking I've maligned them. Not intended. I said I thought the above very rare but have no figures.

Its almost as dangerous speaking on here as being out on the road boxedin


ipsg.glf said:
Could the young chap be lying about his actual speed?
'lying' is a strong word which I wouldnt use.

'all young chaps lie about their speed'
'a young chap on a bike like that needs taking down a peg'

ok he might have been but how do we sort the wheat from the chaff?
As said
police collect the evidence
the courts are there to decide

Edited by saaby93 on Tuesday 29th September 10:10

Engineer1

10,486 posts

210 months

Tuesday 29th September 2009
quotequote all
The poor equipment install may be due to the fact that the car is leased and come the end of its lease it will be released for sale, so too many holes and dash alteration affects the resale. Also has calibrated speedo technology improved? if it is electronic can the calibration be checked and adjusted for tyres etc more easily? after all a whole raft of speed measurment equipment has come out since the granada.

loomx

327 posts

226 months

Tuesday 29th September 2009
quotequote all
vonhosen said:
Spoken testimony is accepted for what it is (& is often good enough) in a court for assaults etc. Why should it not be OK in traffic matters in those circumstances ?
I've said before though that I am more than happy to record every encounter with the public.
Edited by vonhosen on Sunday 26th April 19:41
Because if someone sees an assult with thier eyes they would know it happened, if you see someone driving fast, you cannot know they are speeding 100%, and therefore need proof to back it up.

It really is as simple as that!

ipsg.glf

1,590 posts

219 months

Tuesday 29th September 2009
quotequote all
jith said:
ipsg.glf said:
saaby93 said:
ipsg.glf said:
Do you really think that Police Officers would put their job, pension and liberty at stake for the sake of catching a speeding motorist, who did not seem to endanger anyone in the process?
Afraid that for whatever reason, heat of moment, bored, trouble at home, it happens - but rarely hopefully. You're lucky if you've not been close to being on the wrong end of it, but it is just the luck of the draw. Once it's happened sometime they'll quietly drop it other times continue with it to try to save face.
It's a reason to keep judge and jury separate from evidence gathering.
Have you an actual evidence for those claims, though?

Judge and Jury? what are you on about? Police gather evidence. Courts determine guilt.
I have folders full of evidence ipsg, but before I comment further, would you mind telling me why you resigned from the IAM last year, and in return I will tell you why I did the same several years ago.
Certainly though I have no idea why it is relevant. I resigned from the IAM because I could not support their stance on ISA.

saaby93

32,038 posts

179 months

Tuesday 29th September 2009
quotequote all
I see what you mean
http://www.iam.org.uk/IAM+Policy+and+Research/news...
Are they really expecting every bend, hazard etc to have the correct speed limit for the particular vehicle?
It's difficult enough setting the correct limit on a straight road with few hazards

Crazy stance phone

saaby93

32,038 posts

179 months

Tuesday 29th September 2009
quotequote all
yet strangely
IAM report said:
"Drivers could keep their foot firmly on the accelerator, secure in the knowledge that they cannot exceed the maximum permitted speed - so they could fail to drop their speed to below the limit when conditions require it," said Mr Greig. "That abdication of driver responsibility would not be helpful to road safety in the long run."
it would not be helpful
you can say that again rolleyes

jith

Original Poster:

2,752 posts

216 months

Tuesday 29th September 2009
quotequote all
ipsg.glf said:
jith said:
ipsg.glf said:
saaby93 said:
ipsg.glf said:
Do you really think that Police Officers would put their job, pension and liberty at stake for the sake of catching a speeding motorist, who did not seem to endanger anyone in the process?
Afraid that for whatever reason, heat of moment, bored, trouble at home, it happens - but rarely hopefully. You're lucky if you've not been close to being on the wrong end of it, but it is just the luck of the draw. Once it's happened sometime they'll quietly drop it other times continue with it to try to save face.
It's a reason to keep judge and jury separate from evidence gathering.
Have you an actual evidence for those claims, though?

Judge and Jury? what are you on about? Police gather evidence. Courts determine guilt.
I have folders full of evidence ipsg, but before I comment further, would you mind telling me why you resigned from the IAM last year, and in return I will tell you why I did the same several years ago.
Certainly though I have no idea why it is relevant. I resigned from the IAM because I could not support their stance on ISA.
It's clearly extremely relevant, because it demonstrates your rejection of what is seen to be a respectable organisation that should represent advanced driver education and the promotion of road safety. You have decided that you cannot endorse their policies and have therefore resigned. I did the same some 5 years ago due to a combination of decisions made in the IAM at management level, i.e. the unquestioning and absolute adherence to artificially lowered or inappropriate speed limits, the compliance with the DSAs ludicrous driving examiner training policies,etc.

All of these things are of the same negative philosophy as the manner in which these officers performed their duties in this case. They ignored the brutally expensive equipment that we all pay for and switched it off: they chased a driver whose driving was absolutely flawless and accused him of speeding with absolutely no evidence. The state of their vehicle is testimony to the mentality they display when doing their job; it is unkempt and uncared for. Their interference, and I mean that quite literally, in this man's life has cost him dear financially and emotionally, and it has achieved utterly nothing.

You will never, I repeat never, achieve a decent standard of driving until the ludicrous notion that strictly controlling speed is a priority. The police have been doing it in one form or another since the automobile was invented and it has made not one jot of difference to road safety. There has never been more draconian enforcement than there is now and the standard of driving is utterly appalling and degrading by the day.

These unmarked vehicles are a wonderful tool in the right hands, but this case demonstrates just how cavalier the attitude towards this equipment in some forces is today, and the opportunity to truly make a difference is wasted.

saaby93

32,038 posts

179 months

Tuesday 29th September 2009
quotequote all
Hmm I dont believe all officers are like that
Apart from the odd occurence, anecdotally they're reasonably civil (and what if I was in this position) so perhaps give a ticket for 80mph in a 70 when the machine might have shown more
Which is what it sounds would have been more reasonable in this case. They may have done over 100mph to catch up, but a sharp telling off might have been sufficient. Somethings broken down for them to give 100mph.

As for the biker, looking from his point of view, he's gone up a motorway slip road, merged with traffic, passed the traffic to give some space and gone back into the inside lane- all sounds reasonably safe.

Cant see it being anything other than a bad haircut day, but the bikers on the end of it.

Just in case ... no offence to anyone intended boxedin

ipsg.glf

1,590 posts

219 months

Tuesday 29th September 2009
quotequote all
jith said:
they chased a driver whose driving was absolutely flawless and accused him of speeding with absolutely no evidence. The state of their vehicle is testimony to the mentality they display when doing their job; it is unkempt and uncared for. Their interference, and I mean that quite literally, in this man's life has cost him dear financially and emotionally, and it has achieved utterly nothing.

You will never, I repeat never, achieve a decent standard of driving until the ludicrous notion that strictly controlling speed is a priority.
Flawless? Says who?
No evidence? Says who?

I don't want to see prosecutions for minor infractions of the speed limit. I know of no-one who does (except the loonies, of course)

But 100mph in a 70mph is over 40% over the speed limit. Hardly a minor transgression if you look at it that way.

mark1970

103 posts

178 months

Tuesday 29th September 2009
quotequote all
Ok. What about an offence that will not easily show up on camera like seat belt offences? should a ticket only be issued after an accident where there are injuries that can be used as evidence?

andygo

6,826 posts

256 months

Tuesday 29th September 2009
quotequote all
I was done for speeding several years ago in Cumbria.

The unmarked police car that stopped me (with driver and passenger in civvies) told me they had followed me for nearly a mile and I was travelling at 94.5 mph. I was so lucky, they told me, as at 95mph it would have been a court appearance.

I told them I didn't agree with them. I had seen them miles away, following a Sierra that they had to flash their bumper mounted blues at to get past and was surprised they stopped me.

Once in their 'office' I asked to see the video from their onboard video machine. Apparently it wasn't turned on.

When I said that they had no evidence on video, and that they were behind several cars when they put their blues on, they responded by telling me that I either accept a fixewd penalty at 94.5 or they would testify I was doing over 100 mph.

They apparently didn't spot the Mk 3 escort they must have overtaken with about 6 passengers and the drivers door tied (roughly) closed with string when asked.

I'm sorry VH, but some of your mates make it up.

You know it, I know it, and a lot of other folk know it as well.

mark1970

103 posts

178 months

Tuesday 29th September 2009
quotequote all
I think next time I am stopped I will record the conversation on my mobile. Don't know if it will be accepted as evidence in a court though...

p1esk

4,914 posts

197 months

Tuesday 29th September 2009
quotequote all
ipsg.glf said:
jith said:
ipsg.glf said:
saaby93 said:
ipsg.glf said:
Do you really think that Police Officers would put their job, pension and liberty at stake for the sake of catching a speeding motorist, who did not seem to endanger anyone in the process?
Afraid that for whatever reason, heat of moment, bored, trouble at home, it happens - but rarely hopefully. You're lucky if you've not been close to being on the wrong end of it, but it is just the luck of the draw. Once it's happened sometime they'll quietly drop it other times continue with it to try to save face.
It's a reason to keep judge and jury separate from evidence gathering.
Have you an actual evidence for those claims, though?

Judge and Jury? what are you on about? Police gather evidence. Courts determine guilt.
I have folders full of evidence ipsg, but before I comment further, would you mind telling me why you resigned from the IAM last year, and in return I will tell you why I did the same several years ago.
Certainly though I have no idea why it is relevant. I resigned from the IAM because I could not support their stance on ISA.
[b]Nobody]/b] should be supporting that. The idea is totally unacceptable.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

p1esk

4,914 posts

197 months

Tuesday 29th September 2009
quotequote all
ipsg.glf said:
jith said:
they chased a driver whose driving was absolutely flawless and accused him of speeding with absolutely no evidence. The state of their vehicle is testimony to the mentality they display when doing their job; it is unkempt and uncared for. Their interference, and I mean that quite literally, in this man's life has cost him dear financially and emotionally, and it has achieved utterly nothing.

You will never, I repeat never, achieve a decent standard of driving until the ludicrous notion that strictly controlling speed is a priority.
Flawless? Says who?
No evidence? Says who?

I don't want to see prosecutions for minor infractions of the speed limit. I know of no-one who does (except the loonies, of course)

But 100mph in a 70mph is over 40% over the speed limit. Hardly a minor transgression if you look at it that way.
It is only significant in percentage terms relative to a ridiculous limit. It might be the law, but it serves no useful purpose and it deserves no respect.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

vonhosen

40,288 posts

218 months

Tuesday 29th September 2009
quotequote all
loomx said:
vonhosen said:
Spoken testimony is accepted for what it is (& is often good enough) in a court for assaults etc. Why should it not be OK in traffic matters in those circumstances ?
I've said before though that I am more than happy to record every encounter with the public.
Edited by vonhosen on Sunday 26th April 19:41
Because if someone sees an assult with thier eyes they would know it happened, if you see someone driving fast, you cannot know they are speeding 100%, and therefore need proof to back it up.

It really is as simple as that!
You can know they are speeding & you can produce evidence of it too.

All you need is the opinion of two officers (formed independently at the same time), or one officer & a speedometer. That's all the back up required.

The officers give their testimony but there is no physical evidence to submit before the court, just as there may be no physical evidence to submit before the court for a common assault or public order offence etc.

It's really as simple as that.

Edited by vonhosen on Tuesday 29th September 21:20

vonhosen

40,288 posts

218 months

Tuesday 29th September 2009
quotequote all
andygo said:
I'm sorry VH, but some of your mates make it up.

You know it, I know it, and a lot of other folk know it as well.
I haven't ever said that there are zero dishonest officers in the Police.

mark1970

103 posts

178 months

Tuesday 29th September 2009
quotequote all
what if your vehicle is tracked and recorded by GPS? Would the magistrates take the word of an impartial computer over a Police officer?

vonhosen

40,288 posts

218 months

Tuesday 29th September 2009
quotequote all
mark1970 said:
what if your vehicle is tracked and recorded by GPS? Would the magistrates take the word of an impartial computer over a Police officer?
Veracity is for the court to decide on a case by case basis.

mark1970

103 posts

178 months

Tuesday 29th September 2009
quotequote all
vonhosen said:
mark1970 said:
what if your vehicle is tracked and recorded by GPS? Would the magistrates take the word of an impartial computer over a Police officer?
Veracity is for the court to decide on a case by case basis.
To the best of your knowledge has a case like this this ever come up in court?