Trailer towing:- B and B+E licence rules explained

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Its not even written correctly because the 3500 is missing the word MAM and the trailer weighing more than vehicle bit is no longer a legal requirement as of 19/01/2013

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Zoobeef said:

It's about catagory b1, so quads up to 400 unladen

Ah - just curious

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aniesigh said:

My Navara has GTW 5810, GVM 3210. So unless there is a Nissan quoted tow capacity (which i cannot find in the handbook?!), if the truck weighed 2310kg's, i could tow 3500kgs behind it?

Technically YES

The trailer would be significantly heavier then the towing vehicle which would probably make the combination unstable and should the tail start wagging the dog then an incident is very likely due to loss of control

This could make for a prosecution under reg 100 C&U

http://vanleasingmadesimple.com/van-leasing/nissan...
Check out the MORE INFO links and scroll down for max braked towing weight

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I am a member of the Transit forum and this issue comes up often

A transit can have a GVW of 2800 with a GTW of 3500 and a towing capacity of 1200
If a trailer actually weighing 1200 was being used then the transit max actual weight is limited to 2300 - its that simple

There are many larger 4x4s out there which have been designed to safely tow 3500 when the vehicle is at kerb weight
I think the Disco is one where the max GVW is about 2750 with kerb about 2200 - I think

The chances are the 55 plate Navara is not designed to tow 3500 and is more likely to be about the same as the latest models

The safest way if unsure what is safe is to use this formula .... GTW minus GVW as the max actual towing capacity weight

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If a cop thinks something is illegal they can then issue a ticket but must say on the ticket what the law is that has been broken

If the cop is wrong then its easy enough to show what the law is and get the ticket revoked by contacting the court

The cop then looks like a numpty especially because they had the opportunity to check with their seniors before issuing the ticket

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aniesigh said:

Well according to the NTTA, the max you can tow is calculated by subtracting the GVW from the GTW, which in the case of a t350 LWB Transit would give a tow capacity of 2000kgs (5500, 3500) yet Ford state a max tow capacity of 2800kgs.

While i don't disgree this is correct, i'm concerned that if i actually used this combo for towing 2800kgs that i would have a hard time convincing someone i was legal if the vin plate had 5500kgs and 3500kgs on it, as the tow capacity never seems to be stamed on the vehicle anywhere!

There is nothing in RTA law which states anything about a towing capacity but there is in the C&U regs which can only be prosecuted in a court not at the roadside by FPN etc

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jagracer said:

ROG can correct me if I'm wrong but on your figures providing you don't go over the GTW you are legal. So if the GVW of the van is 3500 you could tow a 2800kg trailer providing you don't load the van to it's maximum weight. So to tow 2800kg you'd only be able to load the van to a max of 2700kg.

Spot on

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aniesigh said:

I have just had an email from a technical person at dvsa confirming that as long as gtw, gvw, and axle weights are not exceeded they are happy. He said although some manufacturers quote a towing capacity they are not interested in this.
Good useful info for me, thanks everyone. Didn't doubt you Rog it's just nice to hear it from the horses mouth!
Cheers

DVSA unlikely to prosecute for towing capacity - that is usually a police one when they see an unsafe combination because it must go to court

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There is no law or rule which states that the towing capacity or GTW must be able to accommodate the plated MAM(s)

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LEGAL EXAMPLE

VAN
GVW 3500
GTW 5500
Towing capacity listed by manufacturer 2500

TRAILER
MAM 3500

Load van to 3500 actual weight + trailer to 2000 actual weight
OR
Load van to 3000 actual weight + trailer to 2500 actual weight

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Timbuk2 said:

So is downplating a myth or just for B licences?

B licence towing
Keeping under O licence and tacho regs are another two reasons if for commercial use

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As various things have changed over the past couple of years I thought this update of what the current laws are on licences and trailer training needing doing ......

These simple rules apply to all B and B+E category drivers no matter when the test was passed

B category
Vehicle not more than 3500 kg plated GVW

B category towing
A trailer of 750 kg max plated MAM may be towed by a B category vehicle making a possible total plated MAM of 4250 kg
If a trailer over 750 kg plated MAM is towed by a B category vehicle then the plated GVW of the vehicle added to the plated MAM of the trailer (MTPLM of a caravan) must not total more than 3500 kg

B+E category
Towing a trailer with a B category vehicle where the trailer is not over 3500 kg plated MAM

To tow a trailer over 3500 kg plated MAM the category needed is C1+E

Below goes deeper into the rules......

Trailer towing:- B and B+E licence rules explained

Licensing laws are based on plated weights not actual weights.

GVW, MAM or MTPLM means maximum permissible legal weight something can weigh when fully loaded.

The towing vehicle GVW can be obtained from the V5 registered keepers form listed as maximum permissible mass, the handbook, or a plate somewhere on the vehicle – usually under bonnet or hidden in a door frame – the top figure is always the GVW.

Towing capacity (manufacturer actual towing weight limit) – not legally enforceable in the RTA but based on safety and engine power under certain conditions and can be prosecuted for excess under C&U reg 100

GTW - the max legal weight the vehicle and trailer can ACTUALLY weigh when added together. This does not refer to the total of the vehicle GWV and trailer MAM weights.
In most cases, the GVW added to the towing capacity will also be the GTW.

The trailer info can be obtained from a plate on the trailer, by calling the trailer manufacturer, or on the internet. If no plate then the total of the TYRE LOAD RATINGS http://www.blackcircles.com/general/load-rating will be used by the authorities to determine the MAM to a maximum of 3500 even if the total is more than that.

There is no law or rule which states that the towing capacity of a vehicle must be able to cope with the plated MAM of a trailer but there are plenty of internet myths on this.

The only legally recognised way to down plate a trailer of 3500 kgs MAM or less is to contact the trailer manufacturer usually at very little cost.

The laws/rules are these for both B+E & B licence towing.
The GVW of the vehicle must not be exceeded (RTA law)
The GTW must not be exceeded (RTA law)
The plated MAM of the trailer must not be exceeded (RTA law).
The towing capacity should not be exceeded (can be prosecutable under C&U regulation 100).
The lower of the trailer MAM or the towing capacity must/should be used as the maximum actual weight when loaded.

For B licence towing with a trailer over 750 kgs MAM.
The vehicle GVW added to the trailer MAM must not exceed 3500 kg (RTA law)

EXAMPLE
Vehicle
GVW 2050 kg
Towing capacity 1700 kg
GTW 3750 kg

Trailer
Un-laden/empty 700 kg
MAM 2000 kg

For B+E licence towing the trailer can be loaded with 1000 kgs because 1000+700=1700 kg which is the towing capacity.

For B licence towing the trailer would need down plating from 2000 kgs to a maximum of 1450 kg.
The reason is that 1450+2050=3500 which is the maximum allowed for B licence towing.
The trailer can be loaded with 750 kg because 750+700=1450 kg which is the trailer MAM.

Caravan weights work on a slightly different system as they take into account the recommended (not legal) 85% towing advice.

SUPERVISING A B+E LEARNER
In April 2010 new rules were introduced for those supervising certain learner drivers but they only affected those supervising VOCATIONAL categories such as C1 C1+E D1 & D1+E where the supervising driver had those categories given to them for free when they passed a pre 1997 car test.
They do not affect those with a pre 1997 B+E licence who wish to supervise a B+E learner.

All B licence holders have B+E provisional on the paper part of their licence and can tow an empty or loaded trailer on all roads including motorways.

The usual rules apply when a learner is driving -
The supervising driver must be aged over 21
The supervising driver must have held a B+E licence for at least 3 years
L plates must be fitted to the front of the vehicle and the rear of the trailer
Correct insurance for a B+E learner
The supervising driver does not need to be insured unless they are driving

The B+E test
No medical or theory test required
Read a number plate from a certain distance
VIDEO - Show Me Tell Me Questions = http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqw6Ua3kmFc&fea... - usually 5
The next three can be in any order:-
VIDEO - Reversing Exercise = http://www.drivesafedriving.co.uk/b_e_rev_movie.ht... - done in test centre grounds if test conducted from practical test centre - some tests are now being done from training school grounds
DSA REVERSING TEST AREA DIAGRAM = https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploa...
VIDEO - Uncouple/couple up = http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ao_5KOe8dGg&fea... - done in test centre grounds if test conducted from practical test centre - some tests are now being done from training school grounds
One hour road drive - includes the independent drive and is done virtually the same as the basic car test

The trailer must now be loaded with 600 kgs of sand bags or a 1000 kgs water IBC for the test so most companies are now training with that weight in the trailer = https://www.gov.uk/new-laden-testing-rules-for-dri...

Well explained here = http://www.trailertraining-wales.co.uk/test.html

DISCLAIMER - I have no connection to any companies which may be featured in those videos

This is interesting BUT NOT RECOMMENDED – a B licence towing set up can be presented for the B+E test but L plates must be used for the test that means you can train yourself, go to test by yourself, fit L plates, do the test, then, pass or fail, remove L plates and drive away by yourself.
DSA B+E TEST AND VEHICLE/TRAILER REQUIREMENTS = http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/DriverLicensi...
Remember that the required 600 kgs of sand bags or 1 x 1000 IBC filled with water will be required in the trailer and the load must be secure.

Please post with as much of this info as you can if you want me to answer a specific query - weights in kg please

LICENCE
B or B+E =

VEHICLE
GVW =
Towing capacity =

TRAILER
Un-laden/empty =
MAM =

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Jon_Bmw said:

Rog,

Thanks for the info. Can you check my calculations:

LICENCE
B or B+E = B

VEHICLE
GVW = 2035
Vehicle Actual weight:1547
Towing capacity = 1800(braked)

TRAILER (braked)
Un-laden/empty = 400
MAM = 1600 (currently)
I want to carry a car at <1000kg

I think I need downplate the trailer to 1465 to be legal. I would probably go to 1450 to be on the safe side. This allows me to carry anything up to 1050KG I think.


I think this would make me legal. Can you confirm I have got my figures right? With regards downplating; it is a shared trailer. When I want to use it it would need a 1450 MAM plate, but the other user might need the 1600KG (he is a B+E). Can I have two plates and interchange? I have the facility to make a plate myself, can I do it?...hmmm. I am not trying to plate the trailer up ever, just flick between 1600 and 1450 depending on who is driving and what we are towing.

Regards,

Jon

To change the plate it must go through the manufacturer each time

Your figures are spot on

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SAAB is likely to be 2200 GVW max so with a caravan at 1050 MTPLM then the total is under the 3500 max for B towing

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If it did come under B+E then you can still tow it with Mrs next to you .....

SUPERVISING A B+E LEARNER
In April 2010 new rules were introduced for those supervising certain learner drivers but they only affected those supervising VOCATIONAL categories such as C1 C1+E D1 & D1+E where the supervising driver had those categories given to them for free when they passed a pre 1997 car test.
They do not affect those with a pre 1997 B+E licence who wish to supervise a B+E learner.

All B licence holders have B+E provisional on the paper part of their licence and can tow an empty or loaded trailer on all roads including motorways.

The usual rules apply when a learner is driving -
The supervising driver must be aged over 21
The supervising driver must have held a B+E licence for at least 3 years
L plates must be fitted to the front of the vehicle and the rear of the trailer
Correct insurance for a B+E learner
The supervising driver does not need to be insured unless they are driving

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stablemate said:

Pretty sure my OH would be okay to tow our new Caravan but thought I would ask the question anyway if only for my own peace of mind!

LICENCE
B or B+E = B

VEHICLE
GVW =1670
Towing capacity = 1150

TRAILER
Un-laden/empty = 650
MAM = 850

Legal

1670+850=2520 so well under the 3500 max allowed for B towing

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Super Slo Mo said:

retty small caravan though? Or are they super light these days?

There are a few 750 kg MTPLM caravans on the market which can often be seen being towed by 3.5 tonnes transits especially by those with B licences who work away all week and have their work stuff in the transit

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Slow said:

Finally passed my test today first time with just 4 minors

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Psycho Warren said:

Has there been any recent changes?

Gov website is showing this:

Licences held from 1 January 1997

If you passed your driving test after 1 January 1997 and have an ordinary category B (car) licence, you can:

drive a vehicle up to 3.5 tonnes or 3,500kg MAM towing a trailer of up to 750kg MAM
tow a trailer over 750kg MAM as long as the combined weight of the trailer and towing vehicle is no more than 3,500kg


Updated 9th june 2015.

Are they speaking rubbish again as they are implying you can tow a combination weighing upto 3.5 tons??

Not rubbish but they missed out a very important bit = MAM

tow a trailer over 750kg MAM as long as the combined MAM weight of the trailer and towing vehicle is no more than 3,500kg

The original looks like it refers to actual weight bit the law refers to the total of the plated weights (MAM)

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This is what one looks like