Threatened Dismissal - Options?
Discussion
Carlton Banks said:
daz3210 said:
And on another subject, is the bacon they serve for breakfast halal too? If not they do NOT have a 100% halal policy!
Good question.Does Halal refer to the method of Slaughter?
But even if it was Halal, they would not be able to eat it anyway.
So would this be exempt?
This is just ridiculous. Why would your wife want to work at a place like this where they don't even stick up for a good valued member of staff who clearly is good at their job? I would be disheartened going back to work knowing my boss won't have my back over something so small and trivial and utterly irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. Especially as its out of her control really.
At the end of the day, its a piece of meat, right? Will that kill a muslim to eat just because of some f-ing religion? No. So what does it matter? Just can't get my head round the parents thinking of making this an issue. Just shows how ridiculous their religion is that they think its such a big deal.
Joke, hope it doesn't end in her dismissal as its totally unfair.
Rant over!!
At the end of the day, its a piece of meat, right? Will that kill a muslim to eat just because of some f-ing religion? No. So what does it matter? Just can't get my head round the parents thinking of making this an issue. Just shows how ridiculous their religion is that they think its such a big deal.
Joke, hope it doesn't end in her dismissal as its totally unfair.
Rant over!!
Carlton Banks said:
Marf said:
Carlton Banks said:
I think you are completely underestimating the 'choice' you believe Muslim children have.
As are you. Religion is a choice. I dropped Islam like a hot potato aged 10 or so. 
The point I'm making here is that I firmly believe that anyone labelled a muslim/christian/jew/whatever by their parents in a non muslim/christian/jew/whatever country is at some point going to question their "faith", and either choose to drop it openly, drop it covertly, or bow to their parental pressure to conform, and the likelihood of dropping it openly greatly increases with each generation.
None of my siblings would claim to be Muslim, despite being labelled as such at school.
Edited by Marf on Tuesday 17th January 15:17
OP I have every sympathy for this situation. Unfortunately experience from members of my family in the education sector have also found that they have been hung out to dry by other staff when minimal support would resolve their situation.
In this case the correct response would be for the headmaster to stand up and state his staff do an excellent job meeting the varied religious requirements of pupils and he is fully behind them.
This is what leadership is about. My sister (a teacher) was confronted by a parent regarding different but equally ridiculous issue in her school. The long-standing elderly and incompetent teachers and headmaster parted like the red sea and left her to deal with it. Her response was to move to a better school.
So much of the public sector contains those that will do anything to avoid leadership, and protect their own skins. Here it is easier for them to throw your OH to the moaners than show an ounce of leadership.
Try and ensure your OH does not get too downbeat. The competent and enthusiastic ones are all too often resented in the public sector.
Unfortunatly it seems your wife has been abandoned by the school as punishment for her hard work and success. I hope you get good employment advice here and it all works out okay even though it might seem hard at the moment.
It sounds like your OH is guilty of doing her job well and making a success of the canteen.
In this case the correct response would be for the headmaster to stand up and state his staff do an excellent job meeting the varied religious requirements of pupils and he is fully behind them.
This is what leadership is about. My sister (a teacher) was confronted by a parent regarding different but equally ridiculous issue in her school. The long-standing elderly and incompetent teachers and headmaster parted like the red sea and left her to deal with it. Her response was to move to a better school.
So much of the public sector contains those that will do anything to avoid leadership, and protect their own skins. Here it is easier for them to throw your OH to the moaners than show an ounce of leadership.
Try and ensure your OH does not get too downbeat. The competent and enthusiastic ones are all too often resented in the public sector.
Unfortunatly it seems your wife has been abandoned by the school as punishment for her hard work and success. I hope you get good employment advice here and it all works out okay even though it might seem hard at the moment.
It sounds like your OH is guilty of doing her job well and making a success of the canteen.
10 Pence Short said:
A member of kitchen staff has made a small and easily done mistake on one meal in a canteen serving several hundred people, in a short period of time.
OP stated that the halal and non-halal foods were served from opposite ends of the counter. Is it the dinner lady's responsibility to ask hundreds of teenagers if they're muslim or not?This little blighter took the bacon, clearly knew she wasn't allowed it since she didn't eat it, did nothing about the problem, and kicked up a stink when she got home.
Marf said:
Carlton Banks said:
Marf said:
Carlton Banks said:
I think you are completely underestimating the 'choice' you believe Muslim children have.
As are you. Religion is a choice. I dropped Islam like a hot potato aged 10 or so. The point I'm making here is that I firmly believe that anyone labelled a muslim/christian/jew/whatever by their parents in a non muslim/christian/jew/whatever country is at some point going to question their "faith", and either choose to drop it openly, drop it covertly, or bow to their parental pressure to conform.
But the pushy element of asian muslim parents means it would be more likely for their religion to be imparted onto their kids from the moment they are born and probably ingrained throughout their childhood or until they consume a bacon double cheeseburger with their mates!
ScoobyDood said:
BarnatosGhost said:
Who made the decision to change the all-halal policy for one Christmas meal?
The school leadership team (of which partner is not a part) made the decision. Halal and non-Halal were served from opposite ends of the serving counterEdited by Dr Mike Oxgreen on Tuesday 17th January 15:27
Dr Mike Oxgreen said:
ScoobyDood said:
BarnatosGhost said:
Who made the decision to change the all-halal policy for one Christmas meal?
The school leadership team (of which partner is not a part) made the decision. Halal and non-Halal were served from opposite ends of the serving counterEdited by Dr Mike Oxgreen on Tuesday 17th January 15:27
ScoobyDood said:
Another advice request from the PH massive......
Some background
My partner is the head of a school kitchen at a ‘multi-cultural’ (Sikhs, Muslims, Christians and more) girls’ comprehensive in a major town in East Berkshire. She has been working there without issue since June last year. Prior to this, she has run her own (very successful) gastro-pub and for the 6 years prior to getting this latest employ was a supply teacher. She is also a trained counsellor (specialising in abused kids) and is an emergency foster carer for the local council.
At the school where she now works, she has introduced a policy of only preparing food using fresh ingredients and all to be prepared fresh on the day of consumption – Due to the school having Muslim kids all the meat is Halal – The school is on the verge of attaining 5-star status with regard meals which is not achieved by many. Kids taking school dinners have increased during her tenure from c250 per day to c 550 per day, even the staff indulge whereas before their absence was notable. She manages a staff of 8.
An issue has now arisen which will now likely lead to her dismissal (she is the boss and the buck stops there) and I am livid.
On the day the school were serving Christmas Lunch, it appears one of the canteen staff mistakenly gave a ‘pig in blanket’ to a Muslim student (the Christian element at the school insisted Christmas Lunch should not be Halal meat!!). Rather than ask for a new plate of food, the student waited until she was home and told her parents. They escalated to their (two!?!) mosques who contacted the school in the New Year looking for a scapegoat and threatening national press and pickets outside the school until action is taken. Now bear in mind my partner fields questions on a daily basis such as “is this custard Halal?” or “I’m a Muslim can I eat cheese?”. Should it really be her (or the school’s) responsibility to educate Muslim kids in the rules of Dhabihah??
The school governors meet this evening to decide my partner’s fate. The headmistress has on several occasions bowed to this type of external pressure before. My partner will likely lose a job she loves as it combines her 2 passions, cooking and working with kids.
Is there anything we can do??
Because of the brevity of her employment , she has few rights . It is doubtful she could even take them to tribunal services .Some background
My partner is the head of a school kitchen at a ‘multi-cultural’ (Sikhs, Muslims, Christians and more) girls’ comprehensive in a major town in East Berkshire. She has been working there without issue since June last year. Prior to this, she has run her own (very successful) gastro-pub and for the 6 years prior to getting this latest employ was a supply teacher. She is also a trained counsellor (specialising in abused kids) and is an emergency foster carer for the local council.
At the school where she now works, she has introduced a policy of only preparing food using fresh ingredients and all to be prepared fresh on the day of consumption – Due to the school having Muslim kids all the meat is Halal – The school is on the verge of attaining 5-star status with regard meals which is not achieved by many. Kids taking school dinners have increased during her tenure from c250 per day to c 550 per day, even the staff indulge whereas before their absence was notable. She manages a staff of 8.
An issue has now arisen which will now likely lead to her dismissal (she is the boss and the buck stops there) and I am livid.
On the day the school were serving Christmas Lunch, it appears one of the canteen staff mistakenly gave a ‘pig in blanket’ to a Muslim student (the Christian element at the school insisted Christmas Lunch should not be Halal meat!!). Rather than ask for a new plate of food, the student waited until she was home and told her parents. They escalated to their (two!?!) mosques who contacted the school in the New Year looking for a scapegoat and threatening national press and pickets outside the school until action is taken. Now bear in mind my partner fields questions on a daily basis such as “is this custard Halal?” or “I’m a Muslim can I eat cheese?”. Should it really be her (or the school’s) responsibility to educate Muslim kids in the rules of Dhabihah??
The school governors meet this evening to decide my partner’s fate. The headmistress has on several occasions bowed to this type of external pressure before. My partner will likely lose a job she loves as it combines her 2 passions, cooking and working with kids.
Is there anything we can do??
The only recourse against this unfair course of action would be to ( or threaten to ) take her story to the press - something the school would not want .
Pontoneer said:
Because of the brevity of her employment , she has few rights . It is doubtful she could even take them to tribunal services .
The only recourse against this unfair course of action would be to ( or threaten to ) take her story to the press - something the school would not want .
Indeed. The minimum service length for a tribunal is 12 months, unless the unfair dismissal relates to discrimination, which I don't think is valid in this case.The only recourse against this unfair course of action would be to ( or threaten to ) take her story to the press - something the school would not want .
HOWEVER
You can still claim wrongful dismissal, and there is no minimum service for that. I'm not sure if you'll have grounds for it though, so probably best to check with someone lawyery.
Frankly I would be amazed if the school won't offer a fat compromise agreement in this situation, they would be in a world of s
t if it got out. Pontoneer said:
ScoobyDood said:
Another advice request from the PH massive......
Some background
My partner is the head of a school kitchen at a ‘multi-cultural’ (Sikhs, Muslims, Christians and more) girls’ comprehensive in a major town in East Berkshire. She has been working there without issue since June last year. Prior to this, she has run her own (very successful) gastro-pub and for the 6 years prior to getting this latest employ was a supply teacher. She is also a trained counsellor (specialising in abused kids) and is an emergency foster carer for the local council.
At the school where she now works, she has introduced a policy of only preparing food using fresh ingredients and all to be prepared fresh on the day of consumption – Due to the school having Muslim kids all the meat is Halal – The school is on the verge of attaining 5-star status with regard meals which is not achieved by many. Kids taking school dinners have increased during her tenure from c250 per day to c 550 per day, even the staff indulge whereas before their absence was notable. She manages a staff of 8.
An issue has now arisen which will now likely lead to her dismissal (she is the boss and the buck stops there) and I am livid.
On the day the school were serving Christmas Lunch, it appears one of the canteen staff mistakenly gave a ‘pig in blanket’ to a Muslim student (the Christian element at the school insisted Christmas Lunch should not be Halal meat!!). Rather than ask for a new plate of food, the student waited until she was home and told her parents. They escalated to their (two!?!) mosques who contacted the school in the New Year looking for a scapegoat and threatening national press and pickets outside the school until action is taken. Now bear in mind my partner fields questions on a daily basis such as “is this custard Halal?” or “I’m a Muslim can I eat cheese?”. Should it really be her (or the school’s) responsibility to educate Muslim kids in the rules of Dhabihah??
The school governors meet this evening to decide my partner’s fate. The headmistress has on several occasions bowed to this type of external pressure before. My partner will likely lose a job she loves as it combines her 2 passions, cooking and working with kids.
Is there anything we can do??
Because of the brevity of her employment , she has few rights . It is doubtful she could even take them to tribunal services .Some background
My partner is the head of a school kitchen at a ‘multi-cultural’ (Sikhs, Muslims, Christians and more) girls’ comprehensive in a major town in East Berkshire. She has been working there without issue since June last year. Prior to this, she has run her own (very successful) gastro-pub and for the 6 years prior to getting this latest employ was a supply teacher. She is also a trained counsellor (specialising in abused kids) and is an emergency foster carer for the local council.
At the school where she now works, she has introduced a policy of only preparing food using fresh ingredients and all to be prepared fresh on the day of consumption – Due to the school having Muslim kids all the meat is Halal – The school is on the verge of attaining 5-star status with regard meals which is not achieved by many. Kids taking school dinners have increased during her tenure from c250 per day to c 550 per day, even the staff indulge whereas before their absence was notable. She manages a staff of 8.
An issue has now arisen which will now likely lead to her dismissal (she is the boss and the buck stops there) and I am livid.
On the day the school were serving Christmas Lunch, it appears one of the canteen staff mistakenly gave a ‘pig in blanket’ to a Muslim student (the Christian element at the school insisted Christmas Lunch should not be Halal meat!!). Rather than ask for a new plate of food, the student waited until she was home and told her parents. They escalated to their (two!?!) mosques who contacted the school in the New Year looking for a scapegoat and threatening national press and pickets outside the school until action is taken. Now bear in mind my partner fields questions on a daily basis such as “is this custard Halal?” or “I’m a Muslim can I eat cheese?”. Should it really be her (or the school’s) responsibility to educate Muslim kids in the rules of Dhabihah??
The school governors meet this evening to decide my partner’s fate. The headmistress has on several occasions bowed to this type of external pressure before. My partner will likely lose a job she loves as it combines her 2 passions, cooking and working with kids.
Is there anything we can do??
The only recourse against this unfair course of action would be to ( or threaten to ) take her story to the press - something the school would not want .
She CAN take it to the tribunal though, whether whe would win is another thing, but often there are press etc there, so may get picked up on by local news.
motco said:
Dr Mike Oxgreen said:
ScoobyDood said:
BarnatosGhost said:
Who made the decision to change the all-halal policy for one Christmas meal?
The school leadership team (of which partner is not a part) made the decision. Halal and non-Halal were served from opposite ends of the serving counterEdited by Dr Mike Oxgreen on Tuesday 17th January 15:27
motco said:
My question, whilst a tad irreverent, was serious. If the pupil chose to go to the non-halal end of the servery then the onus was upon her to have made the correct selection. It begs the question was the choice made deliberately to cause trouble over a Christian festival? Whatever the answer to that, the manager should not be held responsible for a layout not of her design, nor for a mistake made by a sentient pupil.
And is a 13 year old incapable of saying "That has a sausauge wrapped in what looks like bacon. They're both pork... and New plate without PiG supplied, non issue. Can't help but see underlying nastiness in the whole affair.
When I was a kid at school, no fker would believe anything the kids said so what's changed since the 80s? Why didn't they just deny it happened? If the kid didn't mention it at the time, where's the proof? Even then it could only have been circumstantial anyway, who's to say that some other eejit kid didn't put it on the plate as some sort of semi-secular joke?
Bloody annoying that after all this effort from all sides to make it as big a deal as possible, and some no doubt very traumatic times for the OP's missus, it really doesn't matter that much anyway.
BTW, did she eat it or did she hide it behind the sprouts?
ker would believe anything the kids said so what's changed since the 80s? Why didn't they just deny it happened? If the kid didn't mention it at the time, where's the proof? Even then it could only have been circumstantial anyway, who's to say that some other eejit kid didn't put it on the plate as some sort of semi-secular joke?Bloody annoying that after all this effort from all sides to make it as big a deal as possible, and some no doubt very traumatic times for the OP's missus, it really doesn't matter that much anyway.
BTW, did she eat it or did she hide it behind the sprouts?
ScoobyDood said:
Carlton Banks said:
daz3210 said:
And on another subject, is the bacon they serve for breakfast halal too? If not they do NOT have a 100% halal policy!
Good question.Does Halal refer to the method of Slaughter?
But even if it was Halal, they would not be able to eat it anyway.
So would this be exempt?
Halal beef, drained of blood, tastes different to dry-aged beef that is hung with the blood still in the carcass. Without blood, the amount of lactic acid that tenderises and flavours the meat is less as it's the oxygen in the blood that the enzymes use to produce it.
Streaky
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