Customer dies and owes me money
Discussion
Red Devil said:
To this day I'm not sure whether she was 'helped' on her way.
Out of interest - as I am genuinely torn on the issue of "assisted" exit - would you have minded if you found out? Would you see it as her being taken away too soon - or as a blessed relief for someone that has already "gone" mentally and beyond recovery?
wildcat45 said:
The thing is a small business could be owed thousands. It cost me a huge amount of money when I got my house done, and the lad paid up front to get the paint.
Until I paid he was probably 4k out of pocket. I settled the bill online with him there.
The OP isn't working for free, just like the undertakers aten't of the venue for the post service reception.
He does have a difficult path to tread.
Speaking as an only child who has in the past 7 years has had to handle the death of both my parents, and settle accounts etc, I can honestly say that not paying a tradesman is the last thing I would do.
My mum died after my Dad. There was a mass of stuff to do, but as well as organising the funeral (not that hard really they do most of the leg work for you) I made sure the paper bill was paid, the Gardner's bill settled, the cleaner seen right, the local handyman sorted.
All that had to be done. I had a responsibility on my Mum's behalf to make sure those who needed money got it. I'm sure I could have got our solicitor to sort it and told all the interested parties to wait. But why? It wasn't their fault Te person who hired them had died.
To the OP. Don't do condolence cards and flowers. It will be lost in a sea of other cards and flowers.
Wait a month. Send an invoice with a covering letter.
Dear Mrs xxxx. We were so sorry to learn of your husband's death and hope you don't regard this letter as an intrusion at this difficult time. Our records show an outstanding invoice for work carried out by us (enclosed). We would be greatful if when you feel able you could give it your attention.
Yours etc....The OP.
That's because you are a very reasonable guy. Well done. Wish the whole world could be the same.Until I paid he was probably 4k out of pocket. I settled the bill online with him there.
The OP isn't working for free, just like the undertakers aten't of the venue for the post service reception.
He does have a difficult path to tread.
Speaking as an only child who has in the past 7 years has had to handle the death of both my parents, and settle accounts etc, I can honestly say that not paying a tradesman is the last thing I would do.
My mum died after my Dad. There was a mass of stuff to do, but as well as organising the funeral (not that hard really they do most of the leg work for you) I made sure the paper bill was paid, the Gardner's bill settled, the cleaner seen right, the local handyman sorted.
All that had to be done. I had a responsibility on my Mum's behalf to make sure those who needed money got it. I'm sure I could have got our solicitor to sort it and told all the interested parties to wait. But why? It wasn't their fault Te person who hired them had died.
To the OP. Don't do condolence cards and flowers. It will be lost in a sea of other cards and flowers.
Wait a month. Send an invoice with a covering letter.
Dear Mrs xxxx. We were so sorry to learn of your husband's death and hope you don't regard this letter as an intrusion at this difficult time. Our records show an outstanding invoice for work carried out by us (enclosed). We would be greatful if when you feel able you could give it your attention.
Yours etc....The OP.
Vaud said:
Red Devil said:
To this day I'm not sure whether she was 'helped' on her way.
Out of interest - as I am genuinely torn on the issue of "assisted" exit - would you have minded if you found out? Would you see it as her being taken away too soon - or as a blessed relief for someone that has already "gone" mentally and beyond recovery?
Beyond recovery - who can truly say that they know for sure? A cure can always be just round the corner. The irony is that we simply don't know when the next big medical breakthrough will occur. Sometimes people can defy the odds and recover. We have a word for that - miracle.
Most of us never really consider the implications while we are still fully compos mentis so don't discuss the subject with our sons and daughters. Our own death is a topic which is seldom brought up and the cards put on the table.
Given that she was known to be a 'difficult' patient, the unanswered question that still lurks at the back of my mind is whether her passing was just a bit too convenient. That's an entirely different matter from a "Swiss holiday" which had been prepared for ahead of time. There's a big gulf between "assistance" and "expedient demise"!
Without going into details, there were some things which both my sister and I felt at the time didn't quite add up, but proving that anything untoward had occurred would have been something else. So we bit the bullet and moved on. It all happened nearly 20 years ago. It was only this thread which brought it back into focus.
robinessex said:
wildcat45 said:
The thing is a small business could be owed thousands. It cost me a huge amount of money when I got my house done, and the lad paid up front to get the paint.
Until I paid he was probably 4k out of pocket. I settled the bill online with him there.
The OP isn't working for free, just like the undertakers aten't of the venue for the post service reception.
He does have a difficult path to tread.
Speaking as an only child who has in the past 7 years has had to handle the death of both my parents, and settle accounts etc, I can honestly say that not paying a tradesman is the last thing I would do.
My mum died after my Dad. There was a mass of stuff to do, but as well as organising the funeral (not that hard really they do most of the leg work for you) I made sure the paper bill was paid, the Gardner's bill settled, the cleaner seen right, the local handyman sorted.
All that had to be done. I had a responsibility on my Mum's behalf to make sure those who needed money got it. I'm sure I could have got our solicitor to sort it and told all the interested parties to wait. But why? It wasn't their fault Te person who hired them had died.
To the OP. Don't do condolence cards and flowers. It will be lost in a sea of other cards and flowers.
Wait a month. Send an invoice with a covering letter.
Dear Mrs xxxx. We were so sorry to learn of your husband's death and hope you don't regard this letter as an intrusion at this difficult time. Our records show an outstanding invoice for work carried out by us (enclosed). We would be greatful if when you feel able you could give it your attention.
Yours etc....The OP.
That's because you are a very reasonable guy. Well done. Wish the whole world could be the same.Until I paid he was probably 4k out of pocket. I settled the bill online with him there.
The OP isn't working for free, just like the undertakers aten't of the venue for the post service reception.
He does have a difficult path to tread.
Speaking as an only child who has in the past 7 years has had to handle the death of both my parents, and settle accounts etc, I can honestly say that not paying a tradesman is the last thing I would do.
My mum died after my Dad. There was a mass of stuff to do, but as well as organising the funeral (not that hard really they do most of the leg work for you) I made sure the paper bill was paid, the Gardner's bill settled, the cleaner seen right, the local handyman sorted.
All that had to be done. I had a responsibility on my Mum's behalf to make sure those who needed money got it. I'm sure I could have got our solicitor to sort it and told all the interested parties to wait. But why? It wasn't their fault Te person who hired them had died.
To the OP. Don't do condolence cards and flowers. It will be lost in a sea of other cards and flowers.
Wait a month. Send an invoice with a covering letter.
Dear Mrs xxxx. We were so sorry to learn of your husband's death and hope you don't regard this letter as an intrusion at this difficult time. Our records show an outstanding invoice for work carried out by us (enclosed). We would be greatful if when you feel able you could give it your attention.
Yours etc....The OP.
Vaud said:
Out of interest - as I am genuinely torn on the issue of "assisted" exit - would you have minded if you found out?
Would you see it as her being taken away too soon - or as a blessed relief for someone that has already "gone" mentally and beyond recovery?
I got this squared away in my mind a while back.Would you see it as her being taken away too soon - or as a blessed relief for someone that has already "gone" mentally and beyond recovery?
If it were me & I was no longer compos mentis I would be happy to be (AISI) 'released' from my position.
My father's view is similar- I remember as a child his words "Dear God, peg me out if I ever get like that".
As callous as it might appear, if it were your dog you'd 'do the right thing'- does a person deserve any less? I see assisted departure as fine provided it's done for the right reasons rather than eg to stop the kids' inheritance being 'squandered' on nursing home fees
hedgefinder said:
squeezebm said:
Mate,stop talking b
ks. It's decorating to a flat,he's not into £30k debt over some decorating is he? It's a few hundred ££ and the blokes dead and his mrs is grieving! What would you do if it was your fathers death and your mum showed you a decorators bill just after he had died....
how the hell do you know its just a few hundred quid?ks. It's decorating to a flat,he's not into £30k debt over some decorating is he? It's a few hundred ££ and the blokes dead and his mrs is grieving! What would you do if it was your fathers death and your mum showed you a decorators bill just after he had died....I paid almost 3k to have a house decorated and they didnt do a full redecoration or wallpaper job either,just paint to most walls etc. so this could be several thousand pounds depending on what was supplied and the work done.
And how do you know this guy isnt dependant on this wage to pay his mortgage?
If any of my family died and were in this situation I woudl pay my bills and not be upset about it, its not the traders fault ffs...
As usual bloody stupid comments on PH..
Don't forget if IHT is liable then paying the trader before probate will mean the deceased's family will pay 40% ON TOP of the trader's bill. Do you expect the trader to reimburse them for that?
When someone dies, there is a very strict order of priority in relation to debt payments, among the first (funeral is ahead of anything) is TAX!
Only after this liability is satisfied can other creditors be considered, and then again, only after the probate costs have been deducted from the balance of the estate.
Only after this liability is satisfied can other creditors be considered, and then again, only after the probate costs have been deducted from the balance of the estate.
Edited by 3Dee on Wednesday 30th April 14:23
3Dee said:
When someone dies, there is a very strict order of priority in relation to debt payments, among the first (funeral is ahead of anything) is TAX!
Only after this liability is satisfied can other creditors be considered, and then again, only after the probate costs have been deducted from the balance of the estate.
TAX (as in any outstanding Income Tax and Capital Gains) but not IHT. IHT is on the residual estate not before you pay his bills. So they won't pay IHT on top of the bill, if anything it will reduce it. Only after this liability is satisfied can other creditors be considered, and then again, only after the probate costs have been deducted from the balance of the estate.
Edited by 3Dee on Wednesday 30th April 14:23
The executors of his estate will clear his liabilities in order, and it is they and not his wife who have the power to do this using his money *unless she is the executor.
oyster said:
hedgefinder said:
squeezebm said:
Mate,stop talking bks. It's decorating to a flat,he's not into £30k debt over some decorating is he? It's a few hundred ££ and the blokes dead and his mrs is grieving! What would you do if it was your fathers death and your mum showed you a decorators bill just after he had died....
how the hell do you know its just a few hundred quid?ks. It's decorating to a flat,he's not into £30k debt over some decorating is he? It's a few hundred ££ and the blokes dead and his mrs is grieving! What would you do if it was your fathers death and your mum showed you a decorators bill just after he had died....I paid almost 3k to have a house decorated and they didnt do a full redecoration or wallpaper job either,just paint to most walls etc. so this could be several thousand pounds depending on what was supplied and the work done.
And how do you know this guy isnt dependant on this wage to pay his mortgage?
If any of my family died and were in this situation I woudl pay my bills and not be upset about it, its not the traders fault ffs...
As usual bloody stupid comments on PH..
Don't forget if IHT is liable then paying the trader before probate will mean the deceased's family will pay 40% ON TOP of the trader's bill. Do you expect the trader to reimburse them for that?
Jon1967x said:
3Dee said:
When someone dies, there is a very strict order of priority in relation to debt payments, among the first (funeral is ahead of anything) is TAX!
Only after this liability is satisfied can other creditors be considered, and then again, only after the probate costs have been deducted from the balance of the estate.
TAX (as in any outstanding Income Tax and Capital Gains) but not IHT. IHT is on the residual estate not before you pay his bills. So they won't pay IHT on top of the bill, if anything it will reduce it. Only after this liability is satisfied can other creditors be considered, and then again, only after the probate costs have been deducted from the balance of the estate.
Edited by 3Dee on Wednesday 30th April 14:23
The executors of his estate will clear his liabilities in order, and it is they and not his wife who have the power to do this using his money *unless she is the executor.
If the combined liabilities exceed his assets the estate is insolvent and will be dealt with under the Administration of Insolvent Estates of Deceased Persons Order. There are a few differences but essentially the system is similar to bankruptcy with the personal representatives/ executors having to provide information to the Trustee/ Official Receiver.
As a matter of interest, what happens if an estate is paid out, and a debt comes to light later.
Tracing the beneficiaries in lots of cases is not going to be easy.
For example, my aunt died last year leaving her estate to her son and daughter who live in the USA. If it turns out that she owed someone a few grand and only now it came to light, how could the money be repaid? Especially as one of them has spent the money - on a house.
Tracing the beneficiaries in lots of cases is not going to be easy.
For example, my aunt died last year leaving her estate to her son and daughter who live in the USA. If it turns out that she owed someone a few grand and only now it came to light, how could the money be repaid? Especially as one of them has spent the money - on a house.
See my earlier post re a Section 27 notice. Creditors suddenly emerging with a provable claim on the deceased's estate long after everything was thought completed is exactly why the executors would be very unwise if they failed to advertise in this way.
The executors would be personally liable (to the full extent of their assets) for the debt. If the debt was large enough an executor could be forced to sell his/her house to pay it off. The S27 Notice will state a time limit thereby providing protection against any late claim(s).
Complications can arise if the debt is owed to a party outside the UK/NI.
The executors would be personally liable (to the full extent of their assets) for the debt. If the debt was large enough an executor could be forced to sell his/her house to pay it off. The S27 Notice will state a time limit thereby providing protection against any late claim(s).
Complications can arise if the debt is owed to a party outside the UK/NI.
NinjaPower said:
I can only assume you have never been in a property that has been decorated to a high standard using products from the more expensive end of the market.
Some wallpapers can be around £100 a roll for a start off, and paints such as Farrow and Ball can be £50+ for a standard 2.5 litre tin.
Add a few hundred quid in labour per room on top of the material costs and you can see why a complete redecoration of a property could easily be a few grand.
I concede I thought you were painting.Some wallpapers can be around £100 a roll for a start off, and paints such as Farrow and Ball can be £50+ for a standard 2.5 litre tin.
Add a few hundred quid in labour per room on top of the material costs and you can see why a complete redecoration of a property could easily be a few grand.
Regardless, how heartless can you be?
Martin_M said:
I concede I thought you were painting.
Regardless, how heartless can you be?
When it isn't your relative and the materials element of the bill is big enough I'd say very, the point is the OP asked how best to send and chase the bill, which isn't heartless as unless the OP is massively unlucky the wife or relatives of the deceased aren't going to be reading this. Regardless, how heartless can you be?
pork911 said:
Wasn't there a similar thread where guy in gated community was swerving bills?
Anyhow, maybe delay a little on chasing the invoice (assuming confident is dead) but in OPs shoes I wouldn't send a sympathy card, as there appears none
.
In case the situation you are referring to was mine...Anyhow, maybe delay a little on chasing the invoice (assuming confident is dead) but in OPs shoes I wouldn't send a sympathy card, as there appears none
.I actually gave my old landlord four months to get over the passing of her husband.
As she lives two doors down from my parents in law, I did think that when everything financially was sorted that she would simply make contact and sort the return of our tenancy deposit.
She didn't, so I wrote a nice letter which was ignored.
So I wrote a warning of legal action which was also ignored.
A week after the papers were filed she got her solicitors to write to me to tell me (totally incorrectly) that although her name was on the tenancy agreement, as the deceased signed it, my contract is with him, and his estate is insolvent with lots of preferential creditors advising me not to waste my time...
However, I must add that my landlords were people who made a living through using their bought title to get people to supply goods and services on credit, not paying them, and then challenging them to take them to court and enforce it.
Unless the OP thinks that who he worked for is of a similar ilk, I'd give her a bit more time.
James P said:
oyster said:
hedgefinder said:
squeezebm said:
Mate,stop talking bks. It's decorating to a flat,he's not into £30k debt over some decorating is he? It's a few hundred ££ and the blokes dead and his mrs is grieving! What would you do if it was your fathers death and your mum showed you a decorators bill just after he had died....
how the hell do you know its just a few hundred quid?ks. It's decorating to a flat,he's not into £30k debt over some decorating is he? It's a few hundred ££ and the blokes dead and his mrs is grieving! What would you do if it was your fathers death and your mum showed you a decorators bill just after he had died....I paid almost 3k to have a house decorated and they didnt do a full redecoration or wallpaper job either,just paint to most walls etc. so this could be several thousand pounds depending on what was supplied and the work done.
And how do you know this guy isnt dependant on this wage to pay his mortgage?
If any of my family died and were in this situation I woudl pay my bills and not be upset about it, its not the traders fault ffs...
As usual bloody stupid comments on PH..
Don't forget if IHT is liable then paying the trader before probate will mean the deceased's family will pay 40% ON TOP of the trader's bill. Do you expect the trader to reimburse them for that?
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