Blanket 20mph limit across Wales from 2023
Discussion
eccles said:
Stella Tortoise said:
Evanivitch said:
It doesn't. Unless you count the Briton Ferry flyover as "most of the M4" right now.
I thought that was 50, oops!Edited by Stella Tortoise on Thursday 31st March 20:30
donteatpeople said:
jmsgld said:
jmsgld said:
I would argue that the conclusions from the Welsh study posted previously were equally poorly written, and certainly no more true.
I’d disagree.I will assume that we are just talking about the truthfulness, as I don't think it could be argued that the conclusions were well written.
Let's take the 1st paragraph of Wales' conclusions
"The volume of the literature, both peer reviewed and grey, is still relatively small
regarding 20mph speed limits compared with other health outcomes including for
20mph zones. With this caveat the research finding is strongest for casualty
reduction. There is now evidence from 20mph implementation within the UK which
finds a statistically significant reduction in casualties compared to background levels.
Importantly, such findings triangulate with the evidence on speed reduction and
collision reduction. The fact that for each average 1mph speed reduction in an urban
area there is a 6% reduction in collisions fits well with the findings from the UK
studies reported here."
Those stats are taken from "20 mph research study" available @ .gov.
What the paper actually reports is:
"Overall findings – The evidence available to date shows no significant change in the short term in collisions
and casualties, in the majority of the case studies (including the aggregated set of residential case studies).
There is some evidence to suggest a positive 20mph impact in one location (Brighton Phase 1), where a
blanket 20mph limit was introduced covering both major and minor roads, and where there is sufficient data
to indicate a statistically significant change in collisions and casualties relative to the 30mph comparator
area. It should be stressed that this represents just one case study, and the extent to which the findings are
transferable to other locations is unclear...
It is interesting to note that the case study area collisions already appeared to be on a downward trend even
prior to the introduction of the 20mph speed limits37, suggesting other factors have influenced the trend. The
number of collisions dropped further during the second year following implementation (quarters 4 to 7), but
then increased. Further data would be required to determine the long term trend."
As stated previously, there aren't enough data to suggest that the proposed 20mph limits will reduce causalities, to imply otherwise is misleading / lying.
You can find data to support whatever you want. For example if you look at the NI Belfast 20mph Speed Limit Review Trials, you will see that the number of serious collisions in Belfast City Centre increased from 0 (in the year before the implementation of the blanket 20mph limit), to at least 3 in each of the subsequent years. If you look at the preliminary Bath review, you too will see an increase in collisions / causalities after the introduction of 20mph limits.
jmsgld said:
The petition is far from perfect, but I still think signing is really just a vote against the proposed changes.
Agreed, thanks to anyone who has signed.The campaign is making a real difference, and the petition has definitely helped to get the issue taken more seriously. While the person leading it might not have worded everything to the satisfaction of PH, she has been doing a great job by raising awareness, standing in the local elections, doing a BBC radio interview, and speaking to various politicians from the town council to the Senedd.
Negotiations are now taking place about which of our main routes should be returned back to 30mph. Hopefully the negative reaction in these trial areas will help to relax the policy and allow many more A and B roads to be exempt when the full scheme rolls out next year.
mr_fibuli said:
jmsgld said:
The petition is far from perfect, but I still think signing is really just a vote against the proposed changes.
Agreed, thanks to anyone who has signed.The campaign is making a real difference, and the petition has definitely helped to get the issue taken more seriously. While the person leading it might not have worded everything to the satisfaction of PH, she has been doing a great job by raising awareness, standing in the local elections, doing a BBC radio interview, and speaking to various politicians from the town council to the Senedd.
Negotiations are now taking place about which of our main routes should be returned back to 30mph. Hopefully the negative reaction in these trial areas will help to relax the policy and allow many more A and B roads to be exempt when the full scheme rolls out next year.
mr_fibuli said:
Negotiations are now taking place about which of our main routes should be returned back to 30mph.
Surely that is what was always going to happen anyway? It was never going to be a blanket 20mph limit.A campaign to tweak the criteria for a 30mph limit would have been far more sensible.
donteatpeople said:
mr_fibuli said:
Negotiations are now taking place about which of our main routes should be returned back to 30mph.
Surely that is what was always going to happen anyway? It was never going to be a blanket 20mph limit.A campaign to tweak the criteria for a 30mph limit would have been far more sensible.
ATG said:
It is indeed what was always going to happen. It clearly was never a blanket 20mph policy any more than the existing policy is a blanket 30. The default was going to switch to 20 instead of 30, meaning that the local traffic authority would have to justify 30 or 40 zones rather than justify 20 or 40 zones as they do at the moment. The likely impact would be to make lots of residential backstreets 20 instead of 30. Any urban thoroughfares could and most likely would remain 30 or 40, because if they don't the locals will rightly go mental.
Go mental unless they can ignore inappropriate 20 limits with impunity. In many towns that's status quo but it's not going to last...Plymo said:
As if councils would want to spend any time or money "upgrading" roads back to 30!
No doubt it will be massively inconsistent too
Council officers want an easy life and councillors want to get reelected, so I wouldn't despair. Has it the potential to cause a load of unnecessary work and confusion? Yes, of course. Might it be a lot more popular than opinions on this thread would suggest? Yes, because its proponents are politicians and they're not looking to lose votes.No doubt it will be massively inconsistent too
ATG said:
Plymo said:
As if councils would want to spend any time or money "upgrading" roads back to 30!
No doubt it will be massively inconsistent too
Council officers want an easy life and councillors want to get reelected, so I wouldn't despair. Has it the potential to cause a load of unnecessary work and confusion? Yes, of course. Might it be a lot more popular than opinions on this thread would suggest? Yes, because its proponents are politicians and they're not looking to lose votes.No doubt it will be massively inconsistent too
DodgyGeezer said:
bigothunter said:
Lower speed limits are popular with the electorate, many of whom don't even drive. Why would a blanket 20mph limit lose votes?
if you don't drive you shouldn't have any input into 20/30/40 etc speed zones Highways are open to pedestrians, cyclists and horse as of (ancient) right. Motorised vehicles are only licensed to used them.
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