Would any Police officers like to keep an eye on this?
Discussion
I've started a thread about ringing kits for sale on eBay. In a hope that forum will take a moment to report these to eBay and get them lifted as soon as possible.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
From a legal point of view the ramifications of selling an identity to be used on a stolen vehicle knowingly or not would make the seller an accessory to the theft of the vehicle the identity goes on. The eBay listing and transaction information would be enough evidence to prove this.
Also the DVLAs continuous registration department love it when people scrap a vehicle and don't send the log books off.
A lot of the listings have had the vehicle scrapped but the seller has retained the VIN plates, number plates and log book so scrap yards are still taking vehicles and not issuing certificates of destruction.
Would any officers here be interested in following up any of these listings?
It would be interesting to know your point of view and those of the sellers.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
From a legal point of view the ramifications of selling an identity to be used on a stolen vehicle knowingly or not would make the seller an accessory to the theft of the vehicle the identity goes on. The eBay listing and transaction information would be enough evidence to prove this.
Also the DVLAs continuous registration department love it when people scrap a vehicle and don't send the log books off.
A lot of the listings have had the vehicle scrapped but the seller has retained the VIN plates, number plates and log book so scrap yards are still taking vehicles and not issuing certificates of destruction.
Would any officers here be interested in following up any of these listings?
It would be interesting to know your point of view and those of the sellers.
Listing removed however I imagine that selling the kits which comprise of blank VIN plates is not in itself illegal. Stamping a VIN number in which does not correspond to the vehicle the plate is attached to is illegal.
Much the same as laser jammers I suppose. Everyone loves the fact that they open their imaginary garage doors but hey who knows what side effects it may have?
Much the same as laser jammers I suppose. Everyone loves the fact that they open their imaginary garage doors but hey who knows what side effects it may have?
14-7 said:
Listing removed however I imagine that selling the kits which comprise of blank VIN plates is not in itself illegal. Stamping a VIN number in which does not correspond to the vehicle the plate is attached to is illegal.
These guys are selling log books, and stamped VIN plates for vehicles that have been scrapped. Like this one.....
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MK1-Ford-Cortina-GT-new-...
It's mostly old Fords, Land Rovers and Minis as they are easy to take, easy to ring and there's a lot of demand for them.
Where do you draw the line between a ringing kit and a restoration project?
If you take a 40 yr old reliant robin, the chassis is about the only thing that rusts so those are often swapped out. The body might need swapping over when you roll it, and the interior will be due for refurb. Upgrade the engine to 850cc rialto and there's not much left of the original original. Which piece had the VIN number?
Anything over say 20/30 yrs - how much is not original?
Not defending some of these guys but youve got to separate them from the restorers.
ETA
PH has been so good at getting those things taken down just about all the links go to a item no longer available page.
How can we check them
If you take a 40 yr old reliant robin, the chassis is about the only thing that rusts so those are often swapped out. The body might need swapping over when you roll it, and the interior will be due for refurb. Upgrade the engine to 850cc rialto and there's not much left of the original original. Which piece had the VIN number?
Anything over say 20/30 yrs - how much is not original?
Not defending some of these guys but youve got to separate them from the restorers.
ETA
PH has been so good at getting those things taken down just about all the links go to a item no longer available page.
How can we check them
Edited by saaby93 on Saturday 15th October 23:04
When they first appear on the thread it's takes a day or two for eBay to pull the listings. The last two are still up.
The collective weight of the forum members reporting these items does help eBay prioritise.
The chap who's selling documents and VIN plates from Cortinas he's banger raced have very kindly left his phone number on the listing....
07818 075105
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MK1-Ford-Cortina-GT-new-...
New cars are getting harder to take and a lot harder to change the identity so classic theft and ringing is becoming more commonplace. As the classic market is recessionproof it makes economic sense as well. Whenever there's a downturn old cars get lifted. Now scrap yards are supposed to be more diligent with vehicle identities (
as if that's going to happen) and scrap values have dropped (funny how China has an Olympics and scrap hits £200 per Ton, England has the Olympics it's down to the lowest it's been since the early 90's 
) at least the hi-abs literally lifting cars out of gardens straight to the compactor has stopped (at least in my part of the world).
The collective weight of the forum members reporting these items does help eBay prioritise.
The chap who's selling documents and VIN plates from Cortinas he's banger raced have very kindly left his phone number on the listing....
07818 075105
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MK1-Ford-Cortina-GT-new-...
New cars are getting harder to take and a lot harder to change the identity so classic theft and ringing is becoming more commonplace. As the classic market is recessionproof it makes economic sense as well. Whenever there's a downturn old cars get lifted. Now scrap yards are supposed to be more diligent with vehicle identities (
as if that's going to happen) and scrap values have dropped (funny how China has an Olympics and scrap hits £200 per Ton, England has the Olympics it's down to the lowest it's been since the early 90's ) at least the hi-abs literally lifting cars out of gardens straight to the compactor has stopped (at least in my part of the world). saaby93 said:
Where do you draw the line between a ringing kit and a restoration project?
Some of these on eBay are pretty blatant - there was one I recall where the guy advertising had the shell of a van but made it clear that the metal bit was only listed "to comply with ebay rules" but "if you don't want this bit 
I'll just post the VIN plate and V5 
"ETA: the one in the post above also pretty bloody obvious there's no car e.g. "shell beyond salvage", "you'll be driving neither home"...
The prices some of them go for far exceed any resto project too. To the extent that it's almost a case of splitting the profit on what I guess a ringed vehicle would go for when sold.
Would be good if someone kept an eye on them...
Edited by LooneyTunes on Sunday 16th October 08:29
It's really not difficult to scrap a vehicle without getting a certificate of destruction. For example, here's a Dolomite Sprint off on its final journey:
I'm not sure I understand the rationale behind your campaign to be honest. Are you concerned about folk thinking they are buying a, say, 40 year old car when in fact it is a bitsa with someone else's VIN plate on it?
I'm not sure I understand the rationale behind your campaign to be honest. Are you concerned about folk thinking they are buying a, say, 40 year old car when in fact it is a bitsa with someone else's VIN plate on it?
miniman said:
I'm not sure I understand the rationale behind your campaign to be honest. Are you concerned about folk thinking they are buying a, say, 40 year old car when in fact it is a bitsa with someone else's VIN plate on it?
I think you've missed the point!Person buys Vin plates and log book.
Person steals car to match.
Person changes Vin plate and puts new number plates plates on car (Has log book to prove 'ownership')
Person sells 'ringed' car!
miniman said:
It's really not difficult to scrap a vehicle without getting a certificate of destruction. For example, here's a Dolomite Sprint off on its final journey:
I'm not sure I understand the rationale behind your campaign to be honest. Are you concerned about folk thinking they are buying a, say, 40 year old car when in fact it is a bitsa with someone else's VIN plate on it?
No. I think what he is getting at is that a simular car could be stolen, and then the VIN tag and reg plates (purchased anonomously from eBay) added to said stolen car changing its identity. Suprisingly easy to do on older cars so i am informed.I'm not sure I understand the rationale behind your campaign to be honest. Are you concerned about folk thinking they are buying a, say, 40 year old car when in fact it is a bitsa with someone else's VIN plate on it?
Coming from someone called "miniman" I'm suprised by that as Minis are one of the easiest cars to take, ring and move on.
What I'm trying to do is stop people selling vehicle identities to be used on stolen cars, selling vehicle identities to be used on a ropilly put together kit cat to avoid the SVA or changing the identity of a writen off car so an unsuspecting member of the public won't end up with someone elses pride and joy, dead or worse as a result of a Se7en snapping in half due to pish poor welding or ending up with a lemon after paying peach money.
What I'm trying to do is stop people selling vehicle identities to be used on stolen cars, selling vehicle identities to be used on a ropilly put together kit cat to avoid the SVA or changing the identity of a writen off car so an unsuspecting member of the public won't end up with someone elses pride and joy, dead or worse as a result of a Se7en snapping in half due to pish poor welding or ending up with a lemon after paying peach money.
Jesus, is it the TOTM on PH? How anyone could interpret that as aggression is beyond me.
Fairly obvious where the OP was going with it, also be worth a mail to any of the local stolen vehicle squads (assuming any still exist) for the forces relevant to the advertiser if identifiable.
Fairly obvious where the OP was going with it, also be worth a mail to any of the local stolen vehicle squads (assuming any still exist) for the forces relevant to the advertiser if identifiable.
miniman said:
It's really not difficult to scrap a vehicle without getting a certificate of destruction. For example, here's a Dolomite Sprint off on its final journey:
I'm not sure I understand the rationale behind your campaign to be honest. Are you concerned about folk thinking they are buying a, say, 40 year old car when in fact it is a bitsa with someone else's VIN plate on it?
One of the initial posts to start of this whole thing was my topic about a range rover.I'm not sure I understand the rationale behind your campaign to be honest. Are you concerned about folk thinking they are buying a, say, 40 year old car when in fact it is a bitsa with someone else's VIN plate on it?
There was a RR Sport for sale on ebay. Well, it was just the chassis and wheels attached. Nothing else, and it was up to about £5k. However it was also being sold with plates, VIN plates and V5. I only posted because i laughed at the photos they had taken of this chassis and had photographed it like a full car, photos from the side, rear etc
So, i go and steal a £50k RRs. I buy this chassis for £5k. Swap the identities, then sell the stolen for £35k as a decent used car.
Ching Ching.
miniman said:
It's really not difficult to scrap a vehicle without getting a certificate of destruction. For example, here's a Dolomite Sprint off on its final journey:
I'm not sure I understand the rationale behind your campaign to be honest. Are you concerned about folk thinking they are buying a, say, 40 year old car when in fact it is a bitsa with someone else's VIN plate on it?
What have you done with the V5, VIN tag and stamped in identity number? If theyre available to buy please email me through my profile.I'm not sure I understand the rationale behind your campaign to be honest. Are you concerned about folk thinking they are buying a, say, 40 year old car when in fact it is a bitsa with someone else's VIN plate on it?
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