Ian Huntley sues for £100,000 compensation.

[jazzyjeff]

stitched said:

Certainly feel Just not comfortable with another reject from society being the instrument of his demise.

Quite...murderer commits another murder. It just shows that incarceration can't prevent crime.

JJ

[grumbledoak]

No. What it shows, if anything, is that the state's failure to implement it's side of the Justice 'contract' leaves a vacuum that individuals will fill.

[stitched]

grumbledoak said:

No. What it shows, if anything, is that the state's failure to implement it's side of the Justice 'contract' leaves a vacuum that individuals will fill.

Pretty much what I meant, I would be happier if his demise had been lawful rather than by a vigilante.
Still I doubt paedophiles will ever be punished properly, seems to be regarded as a low punishment crime for some reason.

[clarkey328is]

10 Pence Short said:

grumbledoak said:

stitched said:

I doubt it's a particularly popular stance ...

Don't believe it. Though the Grauniad readers want you to think it, the real reason we don't get a vote on the death sentence is because we'd give 'the wrong answer'.

For killing kids we should treat their lives with the contempt they treated others'.

Edited by grumbledoak on Wednesday 4th August 01:16

What on earth makes you believe that?

As with most advanced nations, we used to have the death sentence but, as we came to realise it's not the solution, it was removed. What makes you think this nation has reversed its feelings on the matter, in contravention with the feelings in the majority of other Westernised ones?

I would suggest there is no referendum on the death sentence not because it would give the 'wrong' answer, but because there isn't enough demand for one to justify it. Were it a thought a populist policy then you would find at least one of the newsworthy political organisations clamouring for it in return for votes. I don't see that happening, do you?

As for your Guardian Reader comments, well what's that all about? As a debating tool I really dislike this New Labour tactic of labelling people wrongly just because they don't happen to agree with you on a particular stance.

That I don't like or agree with the death penalty does not make me liberal or left wing. I don't think it prevents crime, I don't think it saves money and I don't think the system is infallible enough to prevent miscarriages of justice or capable enough to bring people back to life when they occur. On that basis the concept of needing a death sentence is flawed, in my opinion.

I would prefer that people who commit the most serious of crimes are removed to protect society and, whilst they're held, they are at least worked upon to become productive in even the smallest ways.

I've ready your prison diary and thoroughly enjoyed it, but I have to disagree here. What a lot of people seem to be forgetting in this thread is that the death penalty is meant to be a deterrent over a punishment. Whilst I don't agree with it in most of its iterations past of present, I do think it should be an option. Perhaps even an option for the prisoner to take, but an option nonetheless.
Something else I feel I have to pick at; Since the death penalty was removed I would imagine violent crime has gone up (I don't have the figures for this, so shoot me down if you actually know). You know better than I that there are loads of types of "crime" and I'm not saying murder has gone up, but if that death penalty makes people think twice then it works, as far as I'm concerned.
I hope I haven't offended you as I agree with most of the stuff you put on here. It seems our opinions differ here.

[HundredthIdiot]

clarkey328is said:

What a lot of people seem to be forgetting in this thread is that the death penalty is meant to be a deterrent over a punishment. Whilst I don't agree with it in most of its iterations past of present, I do think it should be an option. Perhaps even an option for the prisoner to take, but an option nonetheless.
Something else I feel I have to pick at; Since the death penalty was removed I would imagine violent crime has gone up (I don't have the figures for this, so shoot me down if you actually know). You know better than I that there are loads of types of "crime" and I'm not saying murder has gone up, but if that death penalty makes people think twice then it works, as far as I'm concerned.
I hope I haven't offended you as I agree with most of the stuff you put on here. It seems our opinions differ here.

I don't know that there is any evidence for the death penalty being a deterrent. Deterrents don't work for crimes of passion, and they probably don't work with people who are unhinged to start with.

There are also unintended side effects to serious punishments. For instance, if you introduce mandatory life sentences for child rape then the rapist may as well murder the victim in order to reduce the chances of getting caught.

[clarkey328is]

HundredthIdiot said:

clarkey328is said:

What a lot of people seem to be forgetting in this thread is that the death penalty is meant to be a deterrent over a punishment. Whilst I don't agree with it in most of its iterations past of present, I do think it should be an option. Perhaps even an option for the prisoner to take, but an option nonetheless.
Something else I feel I have to pick at; Since the death penalty was removed I would imagine violent crime has gone up (I don't have the figures for this, so shoot me down if you actually know). You know better than I that there are loads of types of "crime" and I'm not saying murder has gone up, but if that death penalty makes people think twice then it works, as far as I'm concerned.
I hope I haven't offended you as I agree with most of the stuff you put on here. It seems our opinions differ here.

I don't know that there is any evidence for the death penalty being a deterrent. Deterrents don't work for crimes of passion, and they probably don't work with people who are unhinged to start with.

There are also unintended side effects to serious punishments. For instance, if you introduce mandatory life sentences for child rape then the rapist may as well murder the victim in order to reduce the chances of getting caught.

I agree with you on both counts, there's certainly more to it than meets the eye. I differentiate between crimes of passion and outright cold blooded murder though. Obviously, this is a line that can be blurred, twisted and manipulated to such a degree that it's pointless differentiating anyway, from a legal standpoint.

As far as the side effects go, I still find it sickening that these kind of people are let out at all but I can see where you're coming from. You would have thought, though, that the kind of people that do that kind of thing already think along those lines anyway.