0-30 Flat out acceleration. Due Care And Attention?

[Tannedbaldhead]

Workmate of mine was yipping in the office that he had been tugged after exiting a shop jumping into his car, leathering it up to 30 mph in 1st then popping it into top gear. He did this in full view of two BiBs in a van who lit him up and have charged him with driving without due care. They firstly estimated his speed as 50+ (not possible in 1st gear). When my colleague challenged the speed claim BiBs backed down on the speeding saying that accelerating that hard within itself constituted the offence and that most cars can exceed 30 in 1st meaning he probably had momentarily exceeded the limit . Evening, 30 limit, quiet road, no one about pedestrian barriers, damp surface. A crime?

[LoonR1]

Nobody about? What about plod who should've been quite visible?

Handy car he's got that does exactly 30 in first as well.

Sounds like you've got half a story to me.

[Disco You]

Whilst I don't agree that he drove without due care and attention, he was a bit foolish to do such a thing in front of the BiB, and I imagine that he is going to have a very hard time contesting their story.

[Snowboy]

Some assumptions here.

He booted it out of a parking space, went a bit sideways as he joined the damp road, made a lot if noise.
Doing this in general is tttish (but fun).
Doing this in front of the cops us bloody silly.

Especially in what I assume is a busy area.
The pedestrian barriers make me think it's a fairly suburban area too.

Over 30mph in first.
Wasy enough in a lot of cars.

[carreauchompeur]

Hmm, on bare facts it wouldn't necessarily constitute due care, but I suspect there may be more than a little "attitude test" operating here.

[Snowboy]

Some assumptions here.

He booted it out of a parking space, went a bit sideways as he joined the damp road, made a lot if noise.
Doing this in general is tttish (but fun).
Doing this in front of the cops us bloody silly.

Especially in what I assume is a busy area.
The pedestrian barriers make me think it's a fairly suburban area too.

Over 30mph in first.
Wasy enough in a lot of cars.

[Justin Cyder]

Sounds like he did it to wind up the BiB & when he succeeded, didn't like the outcome.

I am tempted to think tough titty.

[Grenoble]

Justin Cyder said:

Sounds like he did it to wind up the BiB & when he succeeded, didn't like the outcome.

I am tempted to think tough titty.

I'm inclined to agree. Redlining (1st to 30mph?) is never a bright idea in a built up area, even if the speed limit isn't exceeded.

[Tannedbaldhead]

LoonR1 said:

Nobody about? What about plod who should've been quite visible?

Behind in a van. Was night so all he saw was headlamps in the distance in his rear view.

LoonR1 said:

Handy car he's got that does exactly 30 in first as well.

He recons about 35. Plod did say that 30 is 30 and that even if occurs momentarily speeding is speeding.

LoonR1 said:

Sounds like you've got half a story to me.

'Fraid you always do when told the story second hand. That said I've sat beside him, not keen on his driving style, he's young, a bit jerky on the corners, holds low gears, lots of noise and "look at me" but not a bad speeder so his story has a ring of truth.

[Tannedbaldhead]

carreauchompeur said:

Hmm, on bare facts it wouldn't necessarily constitute due care, but I suspect there may be more than a little "attitude test" operating here.

Works under me, not the gobby type and quite smart. He's also of the "head down, look suitably shamed and I'll get away with it" school of thought. He was a bit shocked when he was charged. 1st offence and I think he's thought that as he doesn't do anything too bad the right attitude will get him off the odd time he does go astray. My only worry, knowing the lad, is when then police mentioned 50mph he might have been a bit smug about telling them his car wont go that fast in first gear.

[Cat]

Would your workmate expect to drive like he did and pass a driving test? If not I'd suggest that his driving fell below what would be expected of a competent and careful driver ie. was careless.

Cat

[CYMR0]

Cat said:

Would your workmate expect to drive like he did and pass a driving test? If not I'd suggest that his driving fell below what would be expected of a competent and careful driver ie. was careless.

Cat

Probably this. The test is as stated above, is a question of fact, and is quite a low threshold to meet.

I'd take an FPN but might contest it if it went to court (i.e., if they were considering disqualification). If the car was observed to break traction rather than just being loud, I'd plead guilty but on the basis that I did not speed (or only did so momentarily).

[LoonR1]

Now plod were behind a van that wasn't there as the was nobody about?

[CYMR0]

LoonR1 said:

Now plod were behind a van that wasn't there as the was nobody about?

I think what they are saying is that there was a police van some way in the distance who noticed the car zooming off.

However, given the number of people everyone (but particularly my mother, for some reason), knows who have been caught speeding at "32" mph in a built up area, I would take everything the workmate says with a large pinch of salt.

[Red Devil]

Correct me if I'm wrong but surely DWDCA would be a summons under Section 3 not an FPN? The decision to prosecute rests with the CPS not BiB.

I'm not condoning his manner of driving but a good motoring solicitor could well get this charge thrown out or a NG verdict returned. For a young driver the cost might well be less than effect of a CD10/20/30 endorsement on his insurance premiums for the next 5 years.

[10 Pence Short]

I'm not convinced, on what we have here, that any offence is made out. If the driver remains in control throughout, and is merely accelerating briskly, what act or omission, precisely, is falling below the standard expected?

[Fastdruid]

Red Devil said:

Correct me if I'm wrong but surely DWDCA would be a summons under Section 3 not an FPN? The decision to prosecute rests with the CPS not BiB.

I thought they've now got a FPN for 'minor' DWDCA, although I believe there is also the option of a driving course (similar to a minor speeding offence).

[carreauchompeur]

10 Pence Short said:

I'm not convinced, on what we have here, that any offence is made out. If the driver remains in control throughout, and is merely accelerating briskly, what act or omission, precisely, is falling below the standard expected?

I'd tend to agree. Indeed I was taught on a Police AD course that one should accelerate briskly to the limit, which is what I tend to do most of the time.

I suspect it was something along the lines of the complex Police algorithm which deduces that:

Since *Car a* accelerates faster than *police van* and I had to do *above limit* to catch them up therefore *car a* must be speeding...

[davemac250]

What do you mean by 'charged'?

If he was told he was going to go to court I'd lay money he hears nothing else.

[Duke147]

davemac250 said:

What do you mean by 'charged'?.

Shoved his finger into the cigarette lighter socket an left him for a few mins...

Sorry!

My own opinion would be that he was a little careless in accelerating hard on a 'greasy' surface. It would be a bit harsh for him to get anything beyond the already administered roadside wrist-slapping, though... No harm, no foul and all that.