Do red light cameras work with no visible sensors?

[SegueUK]

Might be a stupid question but I travel round London every day (Im doing the Knowledge to be a Cabbie) and I keep my eye out for speed cameras and RLC etc. Anyway, I've noticed quite a few don't have visible sensors on the ground (the black 'sticky' looking lines after the stop line).

Today I was stopped at a RLC camera junction and noticed there were no sensor lines on the floor, come home and had a look on Google Maps and they're there on Streetview.

The date on the picture on Google is July 2012 so I can only imagine the road has been resurfaced since then. I've noticed a few a more as well so just wondered if anyone could shed any light?

This is the junction in question:
https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=euston+road&h...

and another example:
https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=Seven+Sisters+Rd,...

Cheers. Sorry if it's a stupid question.

Edited by SegueUK on Wednesday 19th June 15:10

[Snowboy]

I thought they used cameras not road sensors.

[SegueUK]

No they're Gatso Type 36 that use sensors behind the stop line that arm when the light turns red.

[creampuff]

I imagine they dig/cut a line into the ground and insert the sensor wire, then fill the hole with the black goo that you commonly see. If the road subsequently gets resurfaced, the sensor wires remain but the black goo goes. Doesn't mean the cameras don't work any more.

Are you studying the knowledge on a scooter btw?

[SegueUK]

Sounds about right, cheers!

Yeah I am. It's why I asked because i'm always careful when filtering to the front of traffic that I don't go over the line on RLC junctions. Although I have read them ones in particular have a minimum speed threshold of 13mph and that ties in with what i've seen when cars/bikes go/roll over it on red and it doesn't flash.

Edited by SegueUK on Wednesday 19th June 15:35

[creampuff]

Well I do note that there seem to be two loops, one before and one after the stop line. This is consistent with being able to measure speed.

I personally still would not mess with filtering past the stop line any place where there is a red light camera.

Be wary of filtering into the bicycle box also. Occasionally (well rarely but it happens) these get enforced by human plod.

[SegueUK]

Definitely. I'd never risk it. I've had sleepless nights for 2 weeks worrying i've set one off by accident so I always stay well back now.

You got any idea on when they disarm by the way? I.e. would they 'catch' someone if they were quick off the mark as the lights were red and amber before turning green?

So many questions and too much speculation on the internet!

I think Boris Johnson wants to bring in a law about cars/motorbikes in bike boxes. Saw it mentioned on the news.

[herewego]

They want to enforce the law not create it.

[SegueUK]

Well no, they actually want to 'change' the law so the councils can enforce it on CCTV.

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/60-fines-...

[creampuff]

SegueUK said:

You got any idea on when they disarm by the way? I.e. would they 'catch' someone if they were quick off the mark as the lights were red and amber before turning green?

Don't know. I wait until the lights are fully green before moving.

[SegueUK]

Me too. As you probably know though (im guessing you ride around London too?) you see some utterly crazy things. I don't know if people don't worry about cameras or they don't care or what but some of it is incredible.

Cheers for your help anyway confirming what I thought!

[herewego]

SegueUK said:

Well no, they actually want to 'change' the law so the councils can enforce it on CCTV.

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/60-fines-...

They just want to make it easier to enforce. Are all cabbies as keen to break the law as you?

[creampuff]

SegueUK said:

Me too. As you probably know though (im guessing you ride around London too?) you see some utterly crazy things. I don't know if people don't worry about cameras or they don't care or what but some of it is incredible.

Cheers for your help anyway confirming what I thought!

Yes I do ride around London. A lot of road rules have a "London Factor" applied to them but red lights are one I never mess with.

If bicycle boxes ever get enforced, it will be abysmal.

[GC8]

herewego said:

SegueUK said:

Well no, they actually want to 'change' the law so the councils can enforce it on CCTV.

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/60-fines-...

They just want to make it easier to enforce. Are all cabbies as keen to break the law as you?

And indeed: here we go!

[robbieduncan]

creampuff said:

Yes I do ride around London. A lot of road rules have a "London Factor" applied to them but red lights are one I never mess with.

If bicycle boxes ever get enforced, it will be abysmal.

As a some-time cyclist, some-time driver I think it'll be great. And it's coming: http://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/60-fines-...

[creampuff]

robbieduncan said:

As a some-time cyclist, some-time driver I think it'll be great. And it's coming: http://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/60-fines-...

Motos can stop in bicycle boxes without holding bicycles up or blocking bicycles from entering. In fact I see gormless pedal cyclists blocking off other pedal cyclists more than motos do.

Enforcing the ban on motos entering the bicycle box just means I will continue to filter but stop before the box - which since I will have been filtering will then block the space between the traffic lanes or between the traffic and the island or the traffic and the kerb and mean bicycles can't enter the bicycle box either.

[SegueUK]

herewego said:

They just want to make it easier to enforce. Are all cabbies as keen to break the law as you?

Where have I said I'm keen to break the law?

Try harder.

[Cliftonite]

herewego said:

SegueUK said:

Well no, they actually want to 'change' the law so the councils can enforce it on CCTV.

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/60-fines-...

They just want to make it easier to enforce. Are all cabbies as keen to break the law as you?

This is getting O/T now, but my understanding is that not stopping at the first stop line (when there are two, for a cycle-box) is not an absolute offence. If unable to stop at the first, traffic must stop at the second line, i.e. encroaching on the box.

So, there is a legitimate reason for traffic to stop within the box and the parasitical councils will not, therefore, be able to enforce it with their sodding cameras.

[SegueUK]

Exactly, until the law is changed to allow them to do so.

[LordFlathead]

SegueUK said:

Well no, they actually want to 'change' the law so the councils can enforce it on CCTV.

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/60-fines-...

Pah, that's a waste of road real estate as most cyclist don't stop at red's anyway