Discussion
The usual question.
05:32 am.
M25, road works finished at the Heathrow section and the road fully four lanes and empty.
Seen the camera located after the roadworks and passed through at under 50MPH on the speedo.
Flashed and ticketed.
Do I accept the points for my dangerous and irresponsible behaviour or have my day in court?
Advice gratefully accepted
05:32 am.
M25, road works finished at the Heathrow section and the road fully four lanes and empty.
Seen the camera located after the roadworks and passed through at under 50MPH on the speedo.
Flashed and ticketed.
Do I accept the points for my dangerous and irresponsible behaviour or have my day in court?
Advice gratefully accepted
96eight said:
The usual question.
05:32 am.
M25, road works finished at the Heathrow section and the road fully four lanes and empty.
Seen the camera located after the roadworks and passed through at under 50MPH on the speedo.
Flashed and ticketed.
Do I accept the points for my dangerous and irresponsible behaviour or have my day in court?
Advice gratefully accepted
What was the speed limit? If you were below the limit request the pics and calculate your speed against the cal marks.
If it's the Heathrow road works, from memory it's a 40 limit. Cameras are quite sensitive there.
Irritating because of course there would have been no workers around (and few cars) at that time. If your speedo read "under 50" then presumably you were doing no more than 45, so it does seem unfair.
Don't know how you'd go about challenging it though. Even if conditions were fine and you were only just over the limit, it's black and white isn't it?
You dangerous hooligan
Irritating because of course there would have been no workers around (and few cars) at that time. If your speedo read "under 50" then presumably you were doing no more than 45, so it does seem unfair.
Don't know how you'd go about challenging it though. Even if conditions were fine and you were only just over the limit, it's black and white isn't it?
You dangerous hooligan
My father-in-law got caught out in similar circumstances on the A12.
I'm afraid you are stuffed. I advise accepting the points - I don't think you have any defence and you'll p*ss off the beak and have to pay costs. Its £60 - not the end of the world.
To be fair the 40mph limit is *well* signposted. It just seems ridiculous when no one is working and the road is so empty. I sympathise - but your observation was at fault.
To make you feel better I should point out I have three points for doing 70mph in a 60mph because I was dumb enough not to know the difference between a "two lane" road and a "dual carriageway" at the time. Silly me.
I'm afraid you are stuffed. I advise accepting the points - I don't think you have any defence and you'll p*ss off the beak and have to pay costs. Its £60 - not the end of the world.
To be fair the 40mph limit is *well* signposted. It just seems ridiculous when no one is working and the road is so empty. I sympathise - but your observation was at fault.
To make you feel better I should point out I have three points for doing 70mph in a 60mph because I was dumb enough not to know the difference between a "two lane" road and a "dual carriageway" at the time. Silly me.
You are quite correct, it is my fault.
It was not even a fault of observation it was a false sense of fair play.
I knew the camera was there and could see no sense it being operational or on the off chance that it was working I could not see any point in prosecution.
Naive or what?
Am I being more than naive in supposing that if I took it to court that they might see the senselessness of it?
It was not even a fault of observation it was a false sense of fair play.
I knew the camera was there and could see no sense it being operational or on the off chance that it was working I could not see any point in prosecution.
Naive or what?
Am I being more than naive in supposing that if I took it to court that they might see the senselessness of it?
wont give a toss what time it was. by your own admission you knew you were speeding and were "hoping" the camera was off. 96Eight, in your original post you say the camera was after the end of the roadworks. Was this still subject to the speed restriction, if so why? I would advise looking up the temporary speed restriction order and see whether it covers the area after the end of the coned-off section. If not you have a good case.
Don said:
To make you feel better I should point out I have three points for doing 70mph in a 60mph because I was dumb enough not to know the difference between a "two lane" road and a "dual carriageway" at the time. Silly me.
snap - I have 3 points for exactly the same (70 mph recorded speed)
mcflurry said:I don't suppose either of you could tell me the difference (for future reference, you understand!).
To make you feel better I should point out I have three points for doing 70mph in a 60mph because I was dumb enough not to know the difference between a "two lane" road and a "dual carriageway" at the time. Silly me.
snap - I have 3 points for exactly the same (70 mph recorded speed)
Dan
DanL said:
I don't suppose either of you could tell me the difference (for future reference, you understand!).
Dan
For example: A crawler lane up the hill - two lanes up and one lane down. Its in a National Speed Limit. The limit is.....60MPH!
For it to be a dual carriageway, and be subject to a 70mph NSL, there has to be two "roads" or "carriageways", each "one-way" going in opposite directions. They don't have to be next to one another! They also don't have to have two lanes! They could easily have three...or one! Basically the number of lanes is nothing to do with it - counter-intuitive to say the least.
The way you tell is that there is a physical barrier between the carriageways of some sort. I believe this can be a decent gap (BiBs correct me, please) but is more usually Armco.
Awaiting any comments from Trafpol...
Don said:
They also don't have to have two lanes! They could easily have three...or one! Basically the number of lanes is nothing to do with it - counter-intuitive to say the least.
Unfortunately, Don, the clue's in the name. To be a "dual carriageway", there needs to be 2 separate carriageways. Number of lanes in each carriageway is immaterial.
Don said:
The way you tell is that there is a physical barrier between the carriageways of some sort. I believe this can be a decent gap (BiBs correct me, please) but is more usually Armco.
I think you're right there. The way I see it is that if its impossible to physically drive into the oncoming carriageway (in the normal run of events!) then its a dual.
Makes me weep when you drive along an NSL single carriageway that then turns into a dual for a bit, and has a 50mph signed limit. Then back to NSL once the dualled bit has finished
. e.g. A36 where it crosses the A303.mcflurry said:
IIRC the definition is 2 separate carriageways, with a central divider.
Am I right in thinking the divider must be:
a) A central area raised above the level of the carriageways with kerbs etc., or
b) A central grassed area, perhaps not raised, or
c) A central area with an Armco or similar barrier.
Presumably a painted area down the middle does not count, or does it?
Best wishes all,
Dave.
I have a mate who went to court for doing 45 in a 40 at 4 in the morning. The magistrate angrily told the CPS to stop wasting his time and dismissed the case. It was on a single carriageway, fixed camera, no roadworks. It may be worth a try, but personally I'd bend over and take it like a man. Face it, it depends on the magistrate, if you get the usual ex-counciller nobhead they will probably punish you harder for arguing it.
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