Question for BiB/legals - caution for hitting dog?
Discussion
Quick question for the police and solicitors on the forum:
My father-in-law to be hit and killed a dog the other day while driving - it was unsupervised and ran straight out in front of him, nothing he could do.
He did the right thing and went to the police station to report it. The copper on duty then gives him a formal caution - reads him his rights, "anything you say...", and says that he will be getting a letter in the post about this, and recalls being told something about taking it further.
F-i-L-t-b then asks why he was just given a caution, to be told "everyone gets that". Is that everyone who hits a dog, or everyone who reports an accident? Because for most accidents I know of the coppers haven't cared less, let alone issued cautions.
F-i-l-t-b is now very worried what is coming...the copper on duty WOULDN'T elaborate or give any details, despite repeated requests. Thoughts of prosecution keep entering his mind, but as far as I can tell he did exactly what anyone else would have done, and I can't see any grounds.
Can someone give me some advice please? - I want to be able to put his mind to rest, as he's been a sensible driver with a clean slate and good NCB (He doesn't break speed limits and is careful, genuinely - I trust him) for ~30 years, and consequently this encounter with the police has shaken him up quite a bit.
My father-in-law to be hit and killed a dog the other day while driving - it was unsupervised and ran straight out in front of him, nothing he could do.
He did the right thing and went to the police station to report it. The copper on duty then gives him a formal caution - reads him his rights, "anything you say...", and says that he will be getting a letter in the post about this, and recalls being told something about taking it further.
F-i-L-t-b then asks why he was just given a caution, to be told "everyone gets that". Is that everyone who hits a dog, or everyone who reports an accident? Because for most accidents I know of the coppers haven't cared less, let alone issued cautions.
F-i-l-t-b is now very worried what is coming...the copper on duty WOULDN'T elaborate or give any details, despite repeated requests. Thoughts of prosecution keep entering his mind, but as far as I can tell he did exactly what anyone else would have done, and I can't see any grounds.
Can someone give me some advice please? - I want to be able to put his mind to rest, as he's been a sensible driver with a clean slate and good NCB (He doesn't break speed limits and is careful, genuinely - I trust him) for ~30 years, and consequently this encounter with the police has shaken him up quite a bit.
My brother hit a dog a while back and took it directly to the vets. The vet informed the Police because as the dog is licensed, the owner has a responsibility to keep it on a lead.
In fact the owner of the dog had to pay for the damage to the front of the car and as he had insurance to cover this, my brother took him up on his kind offer.
In fact the owner of the dog had to pay for the damage to the front of the car and as he had insurance to cover this, my brother took him up on his kind offer.
If the dog wasn't on a lead and the driver had no chance of stopping then I doubt anything will happen. Some councils can designate that dogs must be on a lead in certain areas - you might want to check up on this, some councils apply it to ALL roads.
This is also what the HC says:
www.highwaycode.gov.uk/02.shtml
"Dogs. Do not let a dog out on the road on its own. Keep it on a short lead when walking on the pavement, road or path shared with cyclists."
edit: The caution might be the way they do things - they might need to keep everying correct until they hear from the owner what happened.
Gareth
>> Edited by g_attrill on Friday 4th February 10:46
This is also what the HC says:
www.highwaycode.gov.uk/02.shtml
"Dogs. Do not let a dog out on the road on its own. Keep it on a short lead when walking on the pavement, road or path shared with cyclists."
edit: The caution might be the way they do things - they might need to keep everying correct until they hear from the owner what happened.
Gareth
>> Edited by g_attrill on Friday 4th February 10:46
Before asking any MoP questions will MAY ultimately lead to an appearance before a court..a caution should always be read:
"You don't have to say anything, but it may harm your defence if you do not mention now, something which you later rely on in court. Anything you do say, may be given in evidence"
Nothing to worry about..
Wont be going anywhere...
"You don't have to say anything, but it may harm your defence if you do not mention now, something which you later rely on in court. Anything you do say, may be given in evidence"
Nothing to worry about..
Wont be going anywhere...
Streetcop said:
Before asking any MoP questions will MAY ultimately lead to an appearance before a court..a caution should always be read:
"You don't have to say anything, but it may harm your defence if you do not mention now, something which you later rely on in court. Anything you do say, may be given in evidence"
Nothing to worry about..
Wont be going anywhere...
What offence has occured for the caution to be given?
Ive been read my rights before in all sorts of situations where I didnt understand why I would possibly be facing any sort of offence.
Politely said that I didnt understand why as surely I wasnt possibly guilty of any offence, and received the informative answer 'we say it to everyone'.
Cheers
that explains it then.
Politely said that I didnt understand why as surely I wasnt possibly guilty of any offence, and received the informative answer 'we say it to everyone'.
Cheers
that explains it then.Did FIL stop at the scene? If not offence?
Could be BiB are getting twitchy as a number of cases have been thrown out because offender was never cautioned so they cover their backs. Certain Pol. Insp at Manchester recently got off an OPL because of no caution.
Only your FIL knows what happened at the time - and I'm not inferring anything - but what if witnesses came forward with tales of speed and negligence.
On the face of it agree with SC.
DVD
Could be BiB are getting twitchy as a number of cases have been thrown out because offender was never cautioned so they cover their backs. Certain Pol. Insp at Manchester recently got off an OPL because of no caution.
Only your FIL knows what happened at the time - and I'm not inferring anything - but what if witnesses came forward with tales of speed and negligence.
On the face of it agree with SC.
DVD
Evocator said:
My brother hit a dog a while back and took it directly to the vets. The vet informed the Police because as the dog is licensed, the owner has a responsibility to keep it on a lead.
In fact the owner of the dog had to pay for the damage to the front of the car and as he had insurance to cover this, my brother took him up on his kind offer.
Dogs aren't licensed but I think you are still required to report it if one collides with your vehicle.
Your FILTB should try and find out who owns the dog so he can claim for any damage the dog may have done to the car.
ca092003 said:
Before asking any MoP questions will MAY ultimately lead to an appearance before a court..a caution should always be read:
"You don't have to say anything, but it may harm your defence if you do not mention now, something which you later rely on in court. Anything you do say, may be given in evidence"
Nothing to worry about..
Wont be going anywhere...
What offence has occured for the caution to be given?
ANY offence.
As soon as a Police officer has evidence of an offence, he should caution unless certain circumstances are present at the time! (Violence, unable to understand because of drink/drugs/mental health etc).
You are quite right, just cutting corners which I know is not the correct or proper thing to do 
!!nonegreen said:
Dogs are no longer licensed so no need to report it IMO. I bet its not been tested since the dog license was scrapped but a dog is no different to a rat or a cat now. There is nothing to compel you to even stop after snotting one.
RTA obligations for animals involved in collisions.
Dog,
Horse
Pig,
cattle,
Sheep,
Goat,
Ass,
Mule,
If you hit any of these, you must report the fact to Police. Failure to do so is likely to bring the offences of
1. Fail to stop (if you don't)
2. Fail to report (if you don't)
3. Both the above!
This has nothing to do with licences. I have never heard of an 'Ass licence' anyway although on a Friday night outside Chicago Rock, I can often definately see a positive need for such a thing!
>> Edited by gone on Friday 4th February 16:01
Thanks for all the input. So to summarise:-
- Caution isn't anything to worry about unless f-i-l wasn't driving/acting safely...which knowing him is about as likely as Tony Blair going fox-hunting, so that's OK.
- If dog was not on lead, then the accident is owners fault for failing to keep dog under control when in public.
- If any damage to f-i-l's car (company car, so not as big a deal I guess), then worth trying to claim off owner (looks like owner is known as a dog had just been reported missing when f-i-l went into police station.
Great! Bit better than I'd originally thought as well. Anything else comes to mind, let me know, otherwise thanks again guys!
Martin.
- Caution isn't anything to worry about unless f-i-l wasn't driving/acting safely...which knowing him is about as likely as Tony Blair going fox-hunting, so that's OK.
- If dog was not on lead, then the accident is owners fault for failing to keep dog under control when in public.
- If any damage to f-i-l's car (company car, so not as big a deal I guess), then worth trying to claim off owner (looks like owner is known as a dog had just been reported missing when f-i-l went into police station.
Great! Bit better than I'd originally thought as well. Anything else comes to mind, let me know, otherwise thanks again guys!
Martin.
havoc said:
Thanks for all the input. So to summarise:-
- Caution isn't anything to worry about unless f-i-l wasn't driving/acting safely...which knowing him is about as likely as Tony Blair going fox-hunting, so that's OK.
Correct. I caution when people fail to produce licence, insurance or MOT when I ask to see them. The offence is the failure to produce on demand and not failing to produce within either 5 or 7 days!
If they produce within the allowed time, then nothing happens even though I have initially cautioned them.
havoc said:
- If dog was not on lead, then the accident is owners fault for failing to keep dog under control when in public.
Possibly! If you manage to find an owner, they may be in breach of certain rules about keeping dogs under control especially if the road is a 'Designated Road'! (that means signs on walls/lamp posts stating that dogs must be kept on leads)
havoc said:
- If any damage to f-i-l's car (company car, so not as big a deal I guess), then worth trying to claim off owner (looks like owner is known as a dog had just been reported missing when f-i-l went into police station.
You can try, some household policies will cover this sort of negligent act. Some Pet plans may also cover it!
havoc said:
Great! Bit better than I'd originally thought as well. Anything else comes to mind, let me know, otherwise thanks again guys!
Martin.
Being cautioned means nothing in relation to an end result. It just allows the officer to make notes of anything that is said by the defendant (if there is to be a defendant)and refer the comments in a court of law under oath.
It is just a warning that gives someone the oportunity to decide on incrimination of themselves if they have committed an offence!
If the caution is not given, then any evidence of interview or comment is excluded because the rules were not complied with!
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