Specialist Dealer refusing to rectify HGF on K-series...
Discussion
First up, I'm not 100% sure of all the current facts because I've yet to sit down with my dad, who recently bought a Lotus Elise S2 111S...
Purchased from a specialist in November for quite strong money (on the understanding that the service and maintenance of the vehicle having a history with the dealership made it worthwhile paying for). K-series 160vvc engines are very obviously renowned for HGF, but how do they fare in the scheme of 'wear and tear'? Because of the winter purchase date the car has naturally been barely used, my father taking the car out on a Sunday to keep the battery charged etc. It's not been tracked, nor driven hard (as evidenced not only by the weather but the fact it needed new tyres in preparation for the warmer months). However, it got a bit warm on one of these Sunday drives to the point where it became a concern.
After a couple of weeks (!) in for diagnosis at the dealership it was confirmed to be HGF.
Initially it was suggested this work wouldn't be an issue for the dealer and certainly that it wouldn't be a chargeable item - since the car is unlikely to have even done 500 miles since being purchased. Whilst the necessary repairs were being discussed I asked my father whether the garage recommended replacing the waterpump at the same time, considering the timing belt may as well be replaced while the engine is apart. The cost of the cambelt kit is something the garage had already quoted for, the waterpump quote would follow obviously as it isn't always deemed necessary.
But I was a bit surprised to hear that as of last week the dealership is not honouring the HGF itself as a warranty claim. I personally thought it was pretty cut and dry that this fault could not have developed in such a short ownership term with so little use, and was most likely present at time of sale.
I'm just very concerned that the four-figure sums being thrown around for this work are going to be invoiced straight to my father and, because he will be keen to get the car back to enjoy in the warmer weather, he will simply pay up. Therefore rendering the 'premium' price paid for the peace of mind this car was sold with a false economy.
Apparently a thrid party opinion (?) is needed before the dealer will accept any claim, with no timeframe given (the usual "we're very busy here" already being said). So they're likely to drag their heels in the hopes that my father becomes impatient and just pays up to get his toy back - or so is my gut feeling.
Where does he stand? What is the common opinion on HGF and it's relationship with a warranty claim?
Thanks in advance!
Purchased from a specialist in November for quite strong money (on the understanding that the service and maintenance of the vehicle having a history with the dealership made it worthwhile paying for). K-series 160vvc engines are very obviously renowned for HGF, but how do they fare in the scheme of 'wear and tear'? Because of the winter purchase date the car has naturally been barely used, my father taking the car out on a Sunday to keep the battery charged etc. It's not been tracked, nor driven hard (as evidenced not only by the weather but the fact it needed new tyres in preparation for the warmer months). However, it got a bit warm on one of these Sunday drives to the point where it became a concern.
After a couple of weeks (!) in for diagnosis at the dealership it was confirmed to be HGF.
Initially it was suggested this work wouldn't be an issue for the dealer and certainly that it wouldn't be a chargeable item - since the car is unlikely to have even done 500 miles since being purchased. Whilst the necessary repairs were being discussed I asked my father whether the garage recommended replacing the waterpump at the same time, considering the timing belt may as well be replaced while the engine is apart. The cost of the cambelt kit is something the garage had already quoted for, the waterpump quote would follow obviously as it isn't always deemed necessary.
But I was a bit surprised to hear that as of last week the dealership is not honouring the HGF itself as a warranty claim. I personally thought it was pretty cut and dry that this fault could not have developed in such a short ownership term with so little use, and was most likely present at time of sale.
I'm just very concerned that the four-figure sums being thrown around for this work are going to be invoiced straight to my father and, because he will be keen to get the car back to enjoy in the warmer weather, he will simply pay up. Therefore rendering the 'premium' price paid for the peace of mind this car was sold with a false economy.
Apparently a thrid party opinion (?) is needed before the dealer will accept any claim, with no timeframe given (the usual "we're very busy here" already being said). So they're likely to drag their heels in the hopes that my father becomes impatient and just pays up to get his toy back - or so is my gut feeling.
Where does he stand? What is the common opinion on HGF and it's relationship with a warranty claim?
Thanks in advance!
What warranty was given when he bought it?
Not sure how much more access work is needed to get to the engine with a Lotus but price for the work from the most respected K series mobile mechanics is £350 for any MG Rover. That includes new waterpump & belts.
http://www.mg-rovermobilemechanics.com/prices.html
Another example, it really shouldn't be four figures even without warranty:
http://www.mjsautoandmarine.co.uk/prices/
Not sure how much more access work is needed to get to the engine with a Lotus but price for the work from the most respected K series mobile mechanics is £350 for any MG Rover. That includes new waterpump & belts.
http://www.mg-rovermobilemechanics.com/prices.html
Another example, it really shouldn't be four figures even without warranty:
http://www.mjsautoandmarine.co.uk/prices/
Also do you have any more detail about why they confirmed it was HGF? Very common that any problem with the K series is put down to this. Here's a good guide:
http://forums.mg-rover.org/how-do-i-answers-common...
http://forums.mg-rover.org/how-do-i-answers-common...
Chris1255 said:
Another example, it really shouldn't be four figures even without warranty:
http://www.mjsautoandmarine.co.uk/prices/
We had Micheal from MJS come as do the head gasket on out mgtf and he was really good, did it on out drive in about 2 hours. http://www.mjsautoandmarine.co.uk/prices/
Apparently the HG on k seriess are prone to failure, but what I have read that lotus re-engineered the engine to pretty much eliminate the issues that Rover we having
As said above, unless the HGF caused massive overheating, it's few hundred to fix and is pretty much guaranteed to happen on the K series as some point during its life. IIRC there is upgraded gasket which should be used, or can be used pre-emptively. They kinda blow by themselves, with nothing really being to blame. Fix it somewhere reputable and move on.
C.A.R. said:
I'm just very concerned that the four-figure sums being thrown around for this work are going to be invoiced straight to my father and, because he will be keen to get the car back to enjoy in the warmer weather, he will simply pay up. Therefore rendering the 'premium' price paid for the peace of mind this car was sold with a false economy.
Apparently a thrid party opinion (?) is needed before the dealer will accept any claim, with no timeframe given (the usual "we're very busy here" already being said). So they're likely to drag their heels in the hopes that my father becomes impatient and just pays up to get his toy back - or so is my gut feeling.
What does your Dad think about this? There's not much point in you getting in a tizzy if he's just going to pay anyway.Apparently a thrid party opinion (?) is needed before the dealer will accept any claim, with no timeframe given (the usual "we're very busy here" already being said). So they're likely to drag their heels in the hopes that my father becomes impatient and just pays up to get his toy back - or so is my gut feeling.
Well, my dad is obviously not keen to hand over any cash where it isn't necessary, but he's also being strung a line by the dealership that this is standard practice - when I feel it should be done under warranty. If they carry on trying to convince him he's wrong then he's likely to just pay up, like anyone would.
Will speak to him tomorrow and get the latest.
Will speak to him tomorrow and get the latest.
Not sure where you stand on all this but surely if there just dragging there heals, give them a chance to fix it as you must. If they refuse gave it taken somewhere more economical trusted as recommended and then small claims them. I'm sure if you have an independent third party give you some correspondence confiming the fault and the likelihood of it being there at sale and there's a chance of recouping your costs.
Above advice assumes you think you're in the right of course and the dealer should fix it. Never know, if they think you are likely to go to court they may just fix it to get rid of the problem.
Above advice assumes you think you're in the right of course and the dealer should fix it. Never know, if they think you are likely to go to court they may just fix it to get rid of the problem.
Buzz84 said:
We had Micheal from MJS come as do the head gasket on out mgtf and he was really good, did it on out drive in about 2 hours.
So in 2 hours, he clearly stripped the head and had it skimmed to get it flat again as well as getting the liner heights right in the block to stop the problem happening again?BertBert said:
Buzz84 said:
We had Micheal from MJS come as do the head gasket on out mgtf and he was really good, did it on out drive in about 2 hours.
So in 2 hours, he clearly stripped the head and had it skimmed to get it flat again as well as getting the liner heights right in the block to stop the problem happening again?On the waterpump, although it might not need doing at the same time as the cambelt it's a £20 part that takes all of five minutes to change when the cambelt is off. If it happens to fail 1,000 miles later you'll be faced with a several hundred pound bill to take the cambelt back off again to fix it.
You'll never guess what happened to me...
battered said:
Does Michael at MJS use a chainsaw? Book time on this is about 5 hours. When I did one on a Caterham it took twice that over 2 days.
I had mine done in a leisurely 3 hours by one of the guys from MG Rover mobile mechanics. Looked like he could have done it blindfolded. Also to emphasise what someone said above the head doesn't always need to be skimmed, and they carry spares if it does need changing. They measured the liner height and replaced with the original type of gasket, 2.5 years and 25k later it's still absolutely fine.Markbarry1977 said:
Not sure where you stand on all this but surely if there just dragging there heals, give them a chance to fix it as you must. .
Perhaps not.. http://cardealermagazine.co.uk/publish/court-rejec...Chris1255 said:
battered said:
Does Michael at MJS use a chainsaw? Book time on this is about 5 hours. When I did one on a Caterham it took twice that over 2 days.
I had mine done in a leisurely 3 hours by one of the guys from MG Rover mobile mechanics. Looked like he could have done it blindfolded. Also to emphasise what someone said above the head doesn't always need to be skimmed, and they carry spares if it does need changing. They measured the liner height and replaced with the original type of gasket, 2.5 years and 25k later it's still absolutely fine.C.A.R. said:
First up, I'm not 100% sure of all the current facts because I've yet to sit down with my dad, who recently bought a Lotus Elise S2 111S...
Purchased from a specialist in November for quite strong money (on the understanding that the service and maintenance of the vehicle having a history with the dealership made it worthwhile paying for). K-series 160vvc engines are very obviously renowned for HGF, but how do they fare in the scheme of 'wear and tear'? Because of the winter purchase date the car has naturally been barely used, my father taking the car out on a Sunday to keep the battery charged etc. It's not been tracked, nor driven hard (as evidenced not only by the weather but the fact it needed new tyres in preparation for the warmer months). However, it got a bit warm on one of these Sunday drives to the point where it became a concern.
After a couple of weeks (!) in for diagnosis at the dealership it was confirmed to be HGF.
Initially it was suggested this work wouldn't be an issue for the dealer and certainly that it wouldn't be a chargeable item - since the car is unlikely to have even done 500 miles since being purchased. Whilst the necessary repairs were being discussed I asked my father whether the garage recommended replacing the waterpump at the same time, considering the timing belt may as well be replaced while the engine is apart. The cost of the cambelt kit is something the garage had already quoted for, the waterpump quote would follow obviously as it isn't always deemed necessary.
But I was a bit surprised to hear that as of last week the dealership is not honouring the HGF itself as a warranty claim. I personally thought it was pretty cut and dry that this fault could not have developed in such a short ownership term with so little use, and was most likely present at time of sale.
I'm just very concerned that the four-figure sums being thrown around for this work are going to be invoiced straight to my father and, because he will be keen to get the car back to enjoy in the warmer weather, he will simply pay up. Therefore rendering the 'premium' price paid for the peace of mind this car was sold with a false economy.
Apparently a thrid party opinion (?) is needed before the dealer will accept any claim, with no timeframe given (the usual "we're very busy here" already being said). So they're likely to drag their heels in the hopes that my father becomes impatient and just pays up to get his toy back - or so is my gut feeling.
Where does he stand? What is the common opinion on HGF and it's relationship with a warranty claim?
Thanks in advance!
Why don't you get your Daddy to post his own problem?Purchased from a specialist in November for quite strong money (on the understanding that the service and maintenance of the vehicle having a history with the dealership made it worthwhile paying for). K-series 160vvc engines are very obviously renowned for HGF, but how do they fare in the scheme of 'wear and tear'? Because of the winter purchase date the car has naturally been barely used, my father taking the car out on a Sunday to keep the battery charged etc. It's not been tracked, nor driven hard (as evidenced not only by the weather but the fact it needed new tyres in preparation for the warmer months). However, it got a bit warm on one of these Sunday drives to the point where it became a concern.
After a couple of weeks (!) in for diagnosis at the dealership it was confirmed to be HGF.
Initially it was suggested this work wouldn't be an issue for the dealer and certainly that it wouldn't be a chargeable item - since the car is unlikely to have even done 500 miles since being purchased. Whilst the necessary repairs were being discussed I asked my father whether the garage recommended replacing the waterpump at the same time, considering the timing belt may as well be replaced while the engine is apart. The cost of the cambelt kit is something the garage had already quoted for, the waterpump quote would follow obviously as it isn't always deemed necessary.
But I was a bit surprised to hear that as of last week the dealership is not honouring the HGF itself as a warranty claim. I personally thought it was pretty cut and dry that this fault could not have developed in such a short ownership term with so little use, and was most likely present at time of sale.
I'm just very concerned that the four-figure sums being thrown around for this work are going to be invoiced straight to my father and, because he will be keen to get the car back to enjoy in the warmer weather, he will simply pay up. Therefore rendering the 'premium' price paid for the peace of mind this car was sold with a false economy.
Apparently a thrid party opinion (?) is needed before the dealer will accept any claim, with no timeframe given (the usual "we're very busy here" already being said). So they're likely to drag their heels in the hopes that my father becomes impatient and just pays up to get his toy back - or so is my gut feeling.
Where does he stand? What is the common opinion on HGF and it's relationship with a warranty claim?
Thanks in advance!
Then instead of going backwards and forwards, asking your Dad what happened then? What happened next? What did he say? What did you say? We can get it straight from the horse's mouth.
Wouldn't that be a better idea?
Buzz84 said:
We had Micheal from MJS come as do the head gasket on out mgtf and he was really good, did it on out drive in about 2 hours.
Apparently the HG on k seriess are prone to failure, but what I have read that lotus re-engineered the engine to pretty much eliminate the issues that Rover we having
Lotus just drop the engine and gearbox straight in from Rover, the only thing they add is there own ECU. My 111s had early signs of HGF when I bought it, it was fixed using a multi layer gasket and paid for by the dealer. The bill with a full C service was just shy of £1000. Apparently the HG on k seriess are prone to failure, but what I have read that lotus re-engineered the engine to pretty much eliminate the issues that Rover we having
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