Insurance help please
Discussion
Hi all, any legal advice please....
A friend was stopped by the law and given a producer.
When he produced his documents all the details were correct apart from the engine size of his Fiesta stated on the insurance certificate - it said '1299cc 8v' instead of '1242cc 16v' . The Reg' number was correct.
He has to go to court for this as they're doing him for driving without insurance. He says his solicitor has told him to expect a minimum of six points , which means he'll be banned because he's had his license less than two years.
It all sounds extremely harsh to me for a genuine error , his father insured the car as a birthday present and got the engine size wrong.
Does anyone have any advice or will he get done for this mistake?
Many Thanks,
A friend was stopped by the law and given a producer.
When he produced his documents all the details were correct apart from the engine size of his Fiesta stated on the insurance certificate - it said '1299cc 8v' instead of '1242cc 16v' . The Reg' number was correct.
He has to go to court for this as they're doing him for driving without insurance. He says his solicitor has told him to expect a minimum of six points , which means he'll be banned because he's had his license less than two years.
It all sounds extremely harsh to me for a genuine error , his father insured the car as a birthday present and got the engine size wrong.
Does anyone have any advice or will he get done for this mistake?
Many Thanks,
Hmmm.
I think that you could possibly argue he was still covered for 3rd party risks which is the minimum required under road traffic act.
Only a letter from ins co will prove this though as its them that would provide the cover. Maybe worth a shout to the ins co to clarify the fact and get a letter explaining something alog the lines of.. Yes Joe Bloggs insurance was invalid for theft or fire but the policy was still in force for 3rd party risks regardless.
The ins co may say that they will not cover and hes stuffed, also the insurance could be classed as revoked or fraudulant and getting insurance again will be V difficult.
I think a bit of begging to the inc co is in order.
Gareth
Edited to add:- technically as the driver he is responsible to ensure he is adiquately insured for that vehicle, an oversight is no excuse in law as he should have read the documents properly and spotted the error and corrected as required.
>> Edited by ^Slider^ on Monday 28th February 23:59
I think that you could possibly argue he was still covered for 3rd party risks which is the minimum required under road traffic act.
Only a letter from ins co will prove this though as its them that would provide the cover. Maybe worth a shout to the ins co to clarify the fact and get a letter explaining something alog the lines of.. Yes Joe Bloggs insurance was invalid for theft or fire but the policy was still in force for 3rd party risks regardless.
The ins co may say that they will not cover and hes stuffed, also the insurance could be classed as revoked or fraudulant and getting insurance again will be V difficult.
I think a bit of begging to the inc co is in order.
Gareth
Edited to add:- technically as the driver he is responsible to ensure he is adiquately insured for that vehicle, an oversight is no excuse in law as he should have read the documents properly and spotted the error and corrected as required.
>> Edited by ^Slider^ on Monday 28th February 23:59
actually, could anything get done for duty of care by the ins co? We can find out engine size by VRM at work quite easily, if we can do it then so can the insurance companies, so unless they specifically asked "has the car with reg mark X123ABC had an engine conversion", they should have still had the correct info on the computer?
(Maybe not the amount of valves, but certianly the cubic capacity - and as you can't get an 8v 1.25 engine, they should have realised this)
(Maybe not the amount of valves, but certianly the cubic capacity - and as you can't get an 8v 1.25 engine, they should have realised this)
Its all down to the insured party..
As somewhere on the small print it will say they base the insurance on information provided by the insuree.
no come backs unless the company made a mistake with the information provided.
If they information provided is incorrect then they can void the policy with no refund. As its YOUR duty to ensure all info is correct and the policy correctly reflects thevehicle / persons insured.
As somewhere on the small print it will say they base the insurance on information provided by the insuree.
no come backs unless the company made a mistake with the information provided.
If they information provided is incorrect then they can void the policy with no refund. As its YOUR duty to ensure all info is correct and the policy correctly reflects thevehicle / persons insured.
Slider
Seems to me there is more in this than stated.
See Section 148 (2) (f) Road Traffic Act 1988.
Also a policy obtained by false and material representation remains valid re 3rd party risks at criminal law, until such time as Insurers have taken steps to avoid it.Duran v Maclaren [1956] backed up by Adams v Dunn {1978}
Obviously a Co has avenues at Civil law to reclaim.
But if things as stated then letter from Insurance Company should resolve.
DVD
>> Edited by Dwight VanDriver on Tuesday 1st March 08:51
Seems to me there is more in this than stated.
See Section 148 (2) (f) Road Traffic Act 1988.
Also a policy obtained by false and material representation remains valid re 3rd party risks at criminal law, until such time as Insurers have taken steps to avoid it.Duran v Maclaren [1956] backed up by Adams v Dunn {1978}
Obviously a Co has avenues at Civil law to reclaim.
But if things as stated then letter from Insurance Company should resolve.
DVD
>> Edited by Dwight VanDriver on Tuesday 1st March 08:51
If it was insured by phone there may be a recorded conversation of the call, or if it was done on line once you input the reg number the car details appear including engine size. As the driver had actually bothered to get insurance, even though a minor detail was wrong isn't it a bit OTT for the CPS to proscecute? Shouln't they be aiming to go for people taht deliberately drive without insurance and have no intention of having any?
I see what you mean DVD.
For the cps to pursue no insurance, they myst be sure that no policy is in force for that vehicle, and i would assume that checks have been made with the insurer as to wether the vehicle would be insured or not.
I thought the insurer could void the policy based on mistakes on the insuree's part.
I thought the 3rd party risks may be in force should an RTC occur. But as no RTC has occured then the policy is invalid for the period the insurance was issued for. Otherwise a bloody big hole allowing anyone to provide false or misleading information to an ins company and still be covered for the risks.
For the cps to pursue no insurance, they myst be sure that no policy is in force for that vehicle, and i would assume that checks have been made with the insurer as to wether the vehicle would be insured or not.
I thought the insurer could void the policy based on mistakes on the insuree's part.
I thought the 3rd party risks may be in force should an RTC occur. But as no RTC has occured then the policy is invalid for the period the insurance was issued for. Otherwise a bloody big hole allowing anyone to provide false or misleading information to an ins company and still be covered for the risks.
oakky said:
If it was insured by phone there may be a recorded conversation of the call, or if it was done on line once you input the reg number the car details appear including engine size. As the driver had actually bothered to get insurance, even though a minor detail was wrong isn't it a bit OTT for the CPS to proscecute? Shouln't they be aiming to go for people taht deliberately drive without insurance and have no intention of having any?
But the insured party should check that the policy is correct. Mistakes happen but the duty is on the insured to ensure all details are correct.
Blimey, I was driving around for ages in my MGB which was insured and registered as an MGB GT even though it was and had always been a roadster (insurance company only wanted to insure per the V5, not the facts) Seems extremely harsh to me - no wonder the law tends to be held with such distain these days.
ers. J.Thanks to everyone for their comments.
The guy didn't check every detail on the insurance certificate as his father, a pilot for British Airways, probably wouldn't make a mistake he thought.
His father took the insurance out at a branch of Hill House Hammond, the insurer is Norwich Union. Here's something he has said :
" basically my fiesta is a 1242cc zetec-s and my father insured it as a 1299cc endura engine which is 2 groups lower. For some reason the insurance company didn't run my number plate against the DVLA database (but then again it thinks my car is a green 3dr and its actually a maroon 5dr !!)"
Is there any hope, would a good solicitor sort this out?
I see it as the equivalent of a typo mistake on the certificate, no bad intentions and the policy had been paid. Does he have to lose his license for that?
Anymore suggestions please ...
The guy didn't check every detail on the insurance certificate as his father, a pilot for British Airways, probably wouldn't make a mistake he thought.
His father took the insurance out at a branch of Hill House Hammond, the insurer is Norwich Union. Here's something he has said :
" basically my fiesta is a 1242cc zetec-s and my father insured it as a 1299cc endura engine which is 2 groups lower. For some reason the insurance company didn't run my number plate against the DVLA database (but then again it thinks my car is a green 3dr and its actually a maroon 5dr !!)"
Is there any hope, would a good solicitor sort this out?
I see it as the equivalent of a typo mistake on the certificate, no bad intentions and the policy had been paid. Does he have to lose his license for that?
Anymore suggestions please ...
They wouldent run the plate through dvla databases. All they do is add the details of the insurance to the MIB database which is searchable via dvla or pnc.
The fact that the insured car is 2 groups lower could cause problems.
At the end of the day, the vehicle that is insured on the policy doesnt match the vehicle.
Lots of begging may help.
The fact that the insured car is 2 groups lower could cause problems.
At the end of the day, the vehicle that is insured on the policy doesnt match the vehicle.
Lots of begging may help.
Has he talked to the insurance yet?
If he says he has just noticed the discrepancy, which he has, then they can just take an increased premium to cover the diference. They would date this back to inception. Then ask for a new cetificate of insurance, which will have correct details and original start date.
If he says he has just noticed the discrepancy, which he has, then they can just take an increased premium to cover the diference. They would date this back to inception. Then ask for a new cetificate of insurance, which will have correct details and original start date.
CB-Dave said:
actually, could anything get done for duty of care by the ins co? We can find out engine size by VRM at work quite easily, if we can do it then so can the insurance companies, so unless they specifically asked "has the car with reg mark X123ABC had an engine conversion", they should have still had the correct info on the computer?
(Maybe not the amount of valves, but certianly the cubic capacity - and as you can't get an 8v 1.25 engine, they should have realised this)
Not always so, I'm afraid - I restored an old VW Beetle 1303 a few years ago, 1 owner, had had the engine swopped whilst under warranty by main dealer - they had put a 1600 in it instead of a 1300. All documentation was sent to dvla and the engine no. matched on the v5. I came to insure it and the ins. co. database pulled up the reg. no. , it was listed as a 1300. When I told them about it they said that they would go along with what their database told them, or else it would be classed as modified. I classed it as modified. The following year, I insured with the SAME co., straight forward renewal and they classed it back as a 1300!!!!
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