Insurance fines without proof of use.
Discussion
Just read a snippet from a trusted newspaper that DoT is proposing to get at the uninsured by the following method.
You own (Reg Keeper) a motor car.
You Insure it for use.
Details entered on Insurance Data Base (IDB).
Insurance lapses.
You have to notify IDB vehicle off the road uninsured.
Police have access to IDB.
IDB searches at will.
Comes up uninsured and IDB not notified.
PING
Fine sent out to Reg Keeper.
Haven't seen the HMG Paper/Bill on this yet but have heard whispers before. Or is this a wind up to frighten people into Insuring. I cannot see it helping much about the Chav Brigade.
Views?
dvd
You own (Reg Keeper) a motor car.
You Insure it for use.
Details entered on Insurance Data Base (IDB).
Insurance lapses.
You have to notify IDB vehicle off the road uninsured.
Police have access to IDB.
IDB searches at will.
Comes up uninsured and IDB not notified.
PING
Fine sent out to Reg Keeper.
Haven't seen the HMG Paper/Bill on this yet but have heard whispers before. Or is this a wind up to frighten people into Insuring. I cannot see it helping much about the Chav Brigade.
Views?
dvd
Hi DVD
No windup
See
[url] www.dft.gov.uk/stellent/groups/dft_rdsafety/documents/pdf/dft_rdsafety_pdf_033114.pdf [/url]
There are many cases where this is unreasonable and unfair and there are plenty of existing penalties. But hey.... lets not get in the way of another nice earner to catch people out. The closing date for representations was 25th Feb. This was notified to all the usual anti-car groups like T2000 and Brake but none of the motorist representatives. I have registed objections as a motorsport competitor, a business manager and a private individual but have no had the courtesy of a reply.
At this rate the govt will have to amend the 1689 bill of rights because thats what I would use to fight it and the flood of non-compliance penalty offences. Oh or register and tax your car in Ireland - removes it from their system and denies the DVLA the revenue.
No windup
See
[url] www.dft.gov.uk/stellent/groups/dft_rdsafety/documents/pdf/dft_rdsafety_pdf_033114.pdf [/url]
There are many cases where this is unreasonable and unfair and there are plenty of existing penalties. But hey.... lets not get in the way of another nice earner to catch people out. The closing date for representations was 25th Feb. This was notified to all the usual anti-car groups like T2000 and Brake but none of the motorist representatives. I have registed objections as a motorsport competitor, a business manager and a private individual but have no had the courtesy of a reply.
At this rate the govt will have to amend the 1689 bill of rights because thats what I would use to fight it and the flood of non-compliance penalty offences. Oh or register and tax your car in Ireland - removes it from their system and denies the DVLA the revenue.
Dwight VanDriver said:
You have to notify IDB vehicle off the road uninsured.
Thought this was going to be more like a cross-reference to DVLA & SORN declarations.
If not then setting up more admin and red tape which has to be paid for somehow?
Community car element, can't send fines to owners who are not only unisured, but unregistered. Presumably poor old plod will have more in car ANPR and accompanied by snatch squad with tow trucks. Will anything else ever get done?
Recalls Dibble experiment in "no discretion" which led to an entire shift <0.5miles away from nick.
Ho Hum.
Edited to add, Re Richard C comment, but Labour intend to kill off motorsport.
>> Edited by Flat in Fifth on Friday 30th September 09:08
wiggy001 said:
A great way of penalising the law-abiding while not affecting the chavscum they should be targetting...
Hear, hear. What no-one has asked is how many uninsured cars are correctly registered, which are the only people who will be caught by this. I suspect that the answer is "very few", and most of these will be oversights or administrative cockups. I can see lots of people getting fined because of incompetence at insurance brokers (hell, I had my new insurer threatening me with the RTA and lapsing my insurance because my old insurers were too useless to forward the proof of no-claims, despite multiple reminders. In that case I would have been "guilty" of an offence, entirely through no fault of my own.)
When will politicians realise that the defining characteristic of criminals is that they don't obey the law? It doesn't matter how many new laws they introduce, because criminals won't obey those, either.
As usual a 'compliance' Tax on those who can & will pay, no actual addressing of the problem. 
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4295834.stm
"Uninsured motorists facing fines
Uninsured drivers are to face automatic fines of at least £60 in an attempt to reduce rising levels of illegal driving in the UK.
New laws being announced by the government will give police access to insurance company records.
Currently police have to catch uninsured drivers using their cars in order to prosecute them.
But the new powers will make it illegal to own a car without insuring it or declaring that it is not being used.
As well as the fines, the new powers will mean uninsured drivers could have their vehicles seized or crushed.
BBC transport correspondent Tom Symonds says the estimated one million uninsured drivers in the UK cost law-abiding motorists £30 each in extra insurance premiums each year.
Uninsured drivers are also more likely to have accidents and police say they often commit more serious offences.
The planned change will mean police can automatically send out fines based on insurance company records.
Cameras that can read number plates - such as those used in London's congestion charging zone - will also be used to trap uninsured drivers.
In August, figures showed that the number of uninsured drivers on London's roads had risen by 40 per cent between 2001 and 2003, double the average for England and Wales."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4295834.stm
"Uninsured motorists facing fines
Uninsured drivers are to face automatic fines of at least £60 in an attempt to reduce rising levels of illegal driving in the UK.
New laws being announced by the government will give police access to insurance company records.
Currently police have to catch uninsured drivers using their cars in order to prosecute them.
But the new powers will make it illegal to own a car without insuring it or declaring that it is not being used.
As well as the fines, the new powers will mean uninsured drivers could have their vehicles seized or crushed.
BBC transport correspondent Tom Symonds says the estimated one million uninsured drivers in the UK cost law-abiding motorists £30 each in extra insurance premiums each year.
Uninsured drivers are also more likely to have accidents and police say they often commit more serious offences.
The planned change will mean police can automatically send out fines based on insurance company records.
Cameras that can read number plates - such as those used in London's congestion charging zone - will also be used to trap uninsured drivers.
In August, figures showed that the number of uninsured drivers on London's roads had risen by 40 per cent between 2001 and 2003, double the average for England and Wales."
If uninsured drivers add £30 to each premium, how much will the extra admin to manage the database cost?
And just how exactly will London's congestion cameras send fines to uninsured and unregistered car owners?
Like everyone else has said, a complete waste of time and money as far as I'm concerned.
And just how exactly will London's congestion cameras send fines to uninsured and unregistered car owners?
Like everyone else has said, a complete waste of time and money as far as I'm concerned.
By up to £30...
I quite agree. This is another leg of the penalisation of the people who comply with the system.
In stead of creating this automated system, why dont they centralise the payment of road tax so it can be checked by post and paid by direct debit.
Every six months I have to take time out of my work day to go to the post office and queue behind the local doleys and single mums getting benefits all for the benefit to me to pay my tax.
I would suppot this system if they could computerise insurance and MOT information as long as they could actually show a benefit to the honest road user.
In stead of creating this automated system, why dont they centralise the payment of road tax so it can be checked by post and paid by direct debit.
Every six months I have to take time out of my work day to go to the post office and queue behind the local doleys and single mums getting benefits all for the benefit to me to pay my tax.
I would suppot this system if they could computerise insurance and MOT information as long as they could actually show a benefit to the honest road user.
Looks like I will be heading for some fines then ! I change cars every 12 months, and typically move my insurance to my new car as soon as I have purchased it. I then sell on my old car, usually within 2-3 weeks , with MOT and whatever tax is remaining. But for that period its not insured and if I need to drive it I do so on 3rd party which my insurance policy allows me to do.
So now I need to go through the paperwork to SORN the car as soon as I get my new one, reclaim the tax and have it sat in the way on the drive for a few weeks - and it will be a little harder to sell as it wont be taxed now
Grrrr
So now I need to go through the paperwork to SORN the car as soon as I get my new one, reclaim the tax and have it sat in the way on the drive for a few weeks - and it will be a little harder to sell as it wont be taxed now
Grrrr
On Rogue Traders last week they were following a garage that was selling knackered old cars and the owner was caught on film saying,
'If you pay cash you can put what ever name you want on the owners documents'.
With people out there prepared to do that, how the hell is this going to solve the problem of people driving uninsured?
'If you pay cash you can put what ever name you want on the owners documents'.
With people out there prepared to do that, how the hell is this going to solve the problem of people driving uninsured?
I saw this site a few months back:
www.miic.org.uk
This won't be any different to the Continuous Licensing Act. It won't catch anyone who really doesn't want to pay up, but it might deter some sheep against straying from the flock.
www.miic.org.uk
This won't be any different to the Continuous Licensing Act. It won't catch anyone who really doesn't want to pay up, but it might deter some sheep against straying from the flock.
justinp1 said:
Every six months I have to take time out of my work day to go to the post office and queue behind the local doleys and single mums getting benefits all for the benefit to me to pay my tax.
I just paid for 12 months car tax online last month? Took 2 minutes, and disc arrived in the post 2 days later.
-andy-
bigdods said:I've never seen an insurance policy which allows you to drive another car that you own third party; mine have only ever covered me for driving a car belonging to someone else. Is it trade insurance or something?
if I need to drive it I do so on 3rd party which my insurance policy allows me to do.
SJobson said:
if I need to drive it I do so on 3rd party which my insurance policy allows me to do.
I've never seen an insurance policy which allows you to drive another car that you own third party; mine have only ever covered me for driving a car belonging to someone else. Is it trade insurance or something?
Indeed. Thin ice, there bigdods
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