Prohibited traffic, or not?
Discussion
The picture above was taken in Union Street, Aberdeen, but typical I assume, and is at the end of a bus lane where cars are allowed into the end of the bus lane in order to turn left, hense the sign prohibits traffic, exception buses, from going straight on.
QUESTION. Outwith bus lane times, any vehicle may use the bus lane, so do I ASSUME this sign would not be applicable OUTWITH bus lane times?
I keep meaning to write to plod and asking them, just never got around to it yet, only took the photo yesterday, so what do you think readers.
Any vehicle joing the road from the junction on the left may immediately enter the bus lane anyway, OUTWITH bus lane times. (except a van is parked on double yellows unloading)
The sign is independent of the hours of operation of the bus lane, which will be set out on a separate blue sign, and in the Traffic Regultion Order. Because Bus Lanes are made by TRO they are regulatory - ie you can be nicked for driving on them if they are in operation.
The sign does not need a TRO. It means that traffic in that lane is meant to turn left (unless it's a bus, which can go straight on). It has no hours of operation so it applies 24 hours. It has no regulatory status - ie you can't be nicked for driving straight on in that lane. If something happened though (for example you hit a pedestrian crossing the road) then the fact that you disregarded an "advisory" direction sign could count against you.
>> Edited by tvrgit on Saturday 5th November 20:03
The sign does not need a TRO. It means that traffic in that lane is meant to turn left (unless it's a bus, which can go straight on). It has no hours of operation so it applies 24 hours. It has no regulatory status - ie you can't be nicked for driving straight on in that lane. If something happened though (for example you hit a pedestrian crossing the road) then the fact that you disregarded an "advisory" direction sign could count against you.
>> Edited by tvrgit on Saturday 5th November 20:03
Do I hear an echo? - Streaky
Found it! - www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?p=2&f=10&t=218869&h=0 - S
>> Edited by streaky on Saturday 5th November 21:18
Found it! - www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?p=2&f=10&t=218869&h=0 - S
>> Edited by streaky on Saturday 5th November 21:18
streaky said:
Do I hear an echo? - Streaky
Found it! - www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?p=2&f=10&t=218869&h=0 - S
>> Edited by streaky on Saturday 5th November 21:18
That takes me back to the log on page.......... just wondering if you were referring to the question I asked the other day on this subject, couldnt find it, hense this thread, if thats what it is, but as I said, the link takes me to the log on page only.
Anyway guys, thanks for the answer, seems pretty clear to me now.
streaky said:
Do I hear an echo? - Streaky
Found it! - www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?p=2&f=10&t=218869&h=0 - S
I was looking for that!
MR2Mike said:
OT, but that is the first time I have ever encountered the word "outwith", is it a regional expression?
No, it's English. Proper English. Properly spelt too, which is more than can be said for many!
tvrgit said:
OT, but that is the first time I have ever encountered the word "outwith", is it a regional expression?
No, it's English. Proper English. Properly spelt too, which is more than can be said for many!
I just checked the Oxford Dictionary, and that says it's Scottish
www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/outwith?view=uk
MR2Mike said:
OT, but that is the first time I have ever encountered the word "outwith", is it a regional expression?
No, it's English. Proper English. Properly spelt too, which is more than can be said for many!
I just checked the Oxford Dictionary, and that says it's Scottish
www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/outwith?view=uk
Well I didny ken that...
(Still proper English though - the OED says so!)
vipers said:
The picture was taken in Union Street, Aberdeen, but typical I assume, and is at the end of a bus lane where cars are allowed into the end of the bus lane in order to turn left, hence the sign prohibits traffic, exception buses, from going straight on.
This is one I'd often wondered about - it was done to the A5 into London through Maida Vale a year or two back when I was doing that route every Friday evening. Caused much confusion and conflict between cars on what people were 'allowed' to do outwith
the bus lane timings. Tended to cause a long queue at each set of lights with a wide open empty lane on the left - another triumph of traffic management!MR2Mike said:One of the earliest recorded uses of "outwith" was by John Gower, a Yorkshire poet born around 1328 and, by-the-by, a friend of that very English of scribes: Geoffrey Chaucer. In Confessio Amantis Gower wrote: "Mi will was tho to se nomore outwith, for ther was no plesance: And thanne into my remembrance I drowh myn olde daies passed." Hope this helps. It certainly seems to have its root in Northern English - Streaky
OT, but that is the first time I have ever encountered the word "outwith", is it a regional expression?
No, it's English. Proper English. Properly spelt too, which is more than can be said for many!
I just checked the Oxford Dictionary, and that says it's Scottish
www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/outwith?view=uk
PS - "shouts out" to MR2Mike for comment regarding spelling ... add to which punctuation, grammar, sentence construction and the "grocer's apostrophe"! {i]Eats shoots and leaves might have made it to the top of last year's "Best Seller's" lists, but too few people evince having taken it to heart - S
streaky said:
PS - "shouts out" to MR2Mike for comment regarding spelling ... add to which punctuation, grammar, sentence construction and the "grocer's apostrophe"! {i]Eats shoots and leaves might have made it to the top of last year's "Best Seller's" lists, but too few people evince having taken it to heart - S
Streaky, the 'shouts out' should go to tvrgit; he made the comment. I was the ignoramus that had never heard the word outwith used. I consider myself to have been suitably educated in it's spelling, origin and useage
MR2Mike said:
PS - "shouts out" to MR2Mike for comment regarding spelling ... add to which punctuation, grammar, sentence construction and the "grocer's apostrophe"! {i]Eats shoots and leaves might have made it to the top of last year's "Best Seller's" lists, but too few people evince having taken it to heart - S
Streaky, the 'shouts out' should go to tvrgit; he made the comment. I was the ignoramus that had never heard the word outwith used. I consider myself to have been suitably educated in it's spelling, origin and useage
Is there some suggestion here that my use of "it's" is a misplaced grocer's apostrophe? It's not, it's used in "it's" in its right place.
In "Best seller's" it isn't, though... You're not a grocer are you?
MR2Mike said:Oops - apologies to both parties. Direction changed. Many thanks - Streaky
PS - "shouts out" to MR2Mike for comment regarding spelling ... add to which punctuation, grammar, sentence construction and the "grocer's apostrophe"! {i]Eats shoots and leaves might have made it to the top of last year's "Best Seller's" lists, but too few people evince having taken it to heart - S
Streaky, the 'shouts out' should go to tvrgit; he made the comment. I was the ignoramus that had never heard the word outwith used. I consider myself to have been suitably educated in it's spelling, origin and useage
tvrgit said:tvrgit my comment was not directed at you. And in the context in which I used it, the apostrophe can be correct, in that the list is possessed of "best sellers". I did think long and hard before using it, as I did not wish to include a solecism in such remarks as I made. Mind you, it is a contentious area - but not as much as the "Oxford comma"
PS - "shouts out" to MR2Mike for comment regarding spelling ... add to which punctuation, grammar, sentence construction and the "grocer's apostrophe"! {i]Eats shoots and leaves might have made it to the top of last year's "Best Seller's" lists, but too few people evince having taken it to heart - S
Streaky, the 'shouts out' should go to tvrgit; he made the comment. I was the ignoramus that had never heard the word outwith used. I consider myself to have been suitably educated in it's spelling, origin and useage
Is there some suggestion here that my use of "it's" is a misplaced grocer's apostrophe? It's not, it's used in "it's" in its right place.
In "Best seller's" it isn't, though... You're not a grocer are you?
- of which, BTW, I am an occasional user where conjunctive clauses might require to be separated in a list - Streaky >> Edited by streaky on Monday 7th November 05:14
I stand corrected with regard to the enforcement of the on-road sign. Perhaps this is another example of how regulations change and many (most?) drivers do not become aware of the change. Mind you, enforcing signage that is only displayed on the road surface (as opposed to being reinforced by upright signage) is (IMHO) moot - and that was why I assumed that it was still "advisory". I am sure we have all experienced occasions in heavy traffic in a strange area where we have discovered too late (owing to stationary cars obscuring the on-road signage) that we are forced to turn on one direction only through our ignorant (innocent) selection of a particular lane - Streaky
streaky said:
And in the context in which I used it, the apostrophe can be correct, in that the list is possessed of "best sellers". I did think long and hard before using it, as I did not wish to include a solecism in such remarks as I made. Mind you, it is a contentious area - but not as much as the "Oxford comma"
I dunno what you're talking about but I know what I like...
>> Edited by tvrgit on Monday 7th November 16:17
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