M42 Solihull new speed cameras
M42 Solihull new speed cameras
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Discussion

Philrose

Original Poster:

479 posts

259 months

Tuesday 22nd November 2005
quotequote all
There are new speed cameras on the gantries over the M42 around Solihull/NEC etc.. My Snooper picks them up as Gatsos but they are grey boxes sited behind the speed restriction rondels. I've not seen any of them flash and I wonder if anyone has any info on these devices.

ledfoot

777 posts

269 months

Wednesday 23rd November 2005
quotequote all

Due to go live end of this year I believe.

Got them all stored in my Road Angel.

They will trigger when compulsory limits are in force(indicated by speed in red circle) and expect them to trigger at 70mph plus ACPO guidelines =79mph when no restrictions, just like M25.

www.highways.gov.uk/knowledge/tcc/atm/03.htm

They are just gatsos www.gatsometer.com/index.php?p=5496

>> Edited by ledfoot on Wednesday 23 November 00:44

egomeister

7,232 posts

280 months

Wednesday 23rd November 2005
quotequote all
According to the signage when I passed through there on Monday night they are due to go live 28.11.05

Had my radar detector on and it picked a couple of them up as live so worth watching out - can imagine the uproar it'll cause as loads of people who haven't driven the M25 suddenly get nicked...

s2ooz

3,005 posts

301 months

Wednesday 23rd November 2005
quotequote all
# Digital Enforcement Cameras

* Used By: West Midlands Police
* Features: Once mandatory speed limits are introduced new digital cameras will be in use. You will notice ladder markings on the road surface and camera signs on the gantries
* Purpose: To ensure compliance with the overhead signals for the safe and effective operation of the scheme in reducing congestion and the impact of incidents


I think your detectors and everyone else are going to be a nightmare on this section.
no one will go over 70, yet ,as stated above from the highways website, they are only live when the mandatory speed signs illuminate.
So if you want to go over 70, you can if its not telling you otherwise.

try telling that to the tits infront that sit in the outside lane, matching the speed of the blokes on the other 3 lanes

russian rocket

872 posts

253 months

Wednesday 23rd November 2005
quotequote all
ledfoot said:



and expect them to trigger at 70mph plus ACPO guidelines =79mph when no restrictions, just like M25.


s2ooz said:


,as stated above from the highways website, they are only live when the mandatory speed signs illuminate.


there seems to be a differance opinion here, can anybody cast some enlightemnent om me

>> Edited by russian rocket on Wednesday 23 November 14:34

Dwight VanDriver

6,583 posts

261 months

Wednesday 23rd November 2005
quotequote all
www.tinyurl.com/crbsn

Use that site also for all tyhe griff on Active Traffic Management Scheme for M42 betixt J3A and 7.

Likewise my info cameras live as from 29.11.05 when variable speed limit in.

dvd

Flat in Fifth

47,068 posts

268 months

Wednesday 23rd November 2005
quotequote all
For some weeks been using the matrix signs but without the red circle therefore limit advisory. Seems as if will become mandatory shortly.

The grumble I have about the system is that the limit goes up and down like a lady of the night's drawers.

Recent trip successive gantries read.
unlit
unlit
NSL ??!?? thought unlit meant NSL
40
40
NSL
unlit
NSL ??!!?? as above
50 changed to 40 just on final approach
50
40
50
NSL
unlit
unlit
etc

Now what happened on the road?

Most people seemed to stick around 50 which was in my ever so humble opinion about right, couldn't do 60 due to traffic volume. Basically as advisory limits it worked well, enforced limits guess we would have had... not sure what to be honest, though guess a lot more speedo watching and a lot of people not sure what the effing limit is.

Looked to me as if the limits were not set manually but because "computer says so."

Will be tears on this one mark my words.


egomeister

7,232 posts

280 months

Wednesday 23rd November 2005
quotequote all
I think part of the reason people were sticking to the advisory limits is that all the signage & the gantrys indicates there are cameras there, hence slow down rather than run the risk of getting nicked. I'm sure you're right though, they'll be tears...

Philrose

Original Poster:

479 posts

259 months

Wednesday 23rd November 2005
quotequote all
Wonder what happens if gantry sign changes to reduce limit as you go under it and you are flashed without ever knowing about the change.

Peter Ward

2,097 posts

273 months

Wednesday 23rd November 2005
quotequote all
Dwight VanDriver said:
www.tinyurl.com/crbsn

Use that site also for all tyhe griff on Active Traffic Management Scheme for M42 betixt J3A and 7.

Likewise my info cameras live as from 29.11.05 when variable speed limit in.

dvd

I love the subtle difference between "do not proceed further in this lane" and "do not use this lane except in emergency or breakdown". I can imagine many people who think that the red cross over the hard shoulder means that it cannot be used for anything, even breakdowns.

When can we expect these new signs to make it into the highway code? Even the online one? Because even though we've seen things like this on the M25 for years, according to the HWC speed limit signs are white with a black number, not black with a white number. Are we sure these are actually legal?

I only ask because of the TV programme last week on road markings for disabled parking bays -- they have to have single dashes round, not double. Since then I've seen loads of incorrectly marked parking bays. I just wonder whether these speed limit signs fall into the same category of "used but invalid". Where can we check?

allaway

353 posts

239 months

Wednesday 23rd November 2005
quotequote all
Speed limit have to be circular to be compulsory. it doesn't matter of the colour.

castroneves

21 posts

245 months

Wednesday 23rd November 2005
quotequote all
Just been on da M42 today, they will introduce compulsory speed limits next monday. At this point the HADECS' will become live and work in a similar way to the variable speed limit GATSOs on the M25.

Dwight VanDriver

6,583 posts

261 months

Thursday 24th November 2005
quotequote all
Peter asks - I just wonder whether these speed limit signs fall into the same category of "used but invalid". Where can we check?

Answer: All authorised under Traffic Signs and General Directions 2002 as amended by Traffic Signs (Amendment) Regs and General Directions 2005.

dvd

Peter Ward

2,097 posts

273 months

Thursday 24th November 2005
quotequote all
Thanks, allaway and DVD. I found the docs you mentioned, DVD, and it's clear what a speed limit sign looks like. I admit I didn't look at every picture in the regulations but I didn't see a variation in schedule 16 that allows speed limits to be indicated by white on black rather than black on white. Something as major as this couldn't be overlooked so it must be documented somewhere?

BTW, I also found the red cross gantry signs as per the M42. It looks to me that the complete cross and the cross without a "middle" (which the M42 URL indicates mean 2 different things) are actually equivalent to each other. I'm not an expert in understanding all these arcane docs but I do think that the differences are subtle and could be mixed up by many drivers.

Dwight VanDriver

6,583 posts

261 months

Thursday 24th November 2005
quotequote all
Full red cross - total ban on THE CARRIAGEWAY

Partial red cross - partial ban on HARD SHOULDER except for emergencies.

Where they appear should be the giveaway?

dvd

Peter Ward

2,097 posts

273 months

Thursday 24th November 2005
quotequote all
Dwight VanDriver said:
Full red cross - total ban on THE CARRIAGEWAY

Partial red cross - partial ban on HARD SHOULDER except for emergencies.

Where they appear should be the giveaway?

dvd

The tinyurl link above says:

Red Cross with Flashing Beacons
Applicable to all lanes (including hard shoulder)
Do not proceed further in this lane

<partial> Red Cross without Flashing Beacons
Applicable only to hard shoulder
Do not use this lane except in emergency or break down

So both crosses can apply to the hard shoulder. The only difference is the flashing lights, if you discount the gap in the middle of the partial cross. I'm not saying there's no difference. It's just that it's subtle and could cause confusion. I hope it doesn't, but it might at least initially.

The result would be that people would think they cannot go on the hard shoulder when they break down, and panic. I would suggest that such confusion is most likely at a time of stress brought on by a breakdown. What would be the result? I don't know. Perhaps simply that people would seek out the additional breakdown refuges, but I could imagine other outcomes.

Dwight VanDriver

6,583 posts

261 months

Friday 25th November 2005
quotequote all
Do take your point Peter.

When hardshoulder becomes 'managed' then if forms Carriageway does it not? So if they want to ban movement then red cross will appear over it.

If they only ban lane 1 and 2, to stop people who ignore the direction arrows on approach and see the hardshoulder open to stop them using as a carriageway they will activate the partial red cross?

Time to re-issue new Highway Code to all drivers free....

dvd

Philrose

Original Poster:

479 posts

259 months

Saturday 26th November 2005
quotequote all
Monday should be fun then ---------
I suspect most people will have no idea what's going on when the restriction signs light up. The local paper had a full page 'ad' about them but didnt say anything about the limits being mandatory. Sneaky.

ledfoot

777 posts

269 months

Saturday 26th November 2005
quotequote all
Philrose said:
Monday should be fun then


I expect to see the camera flashes lighting up the M42 like a firework display

autismuk

1,529 posts

257 months

Sunday 27th November 2005
quotequote all
It's a bloody deathtrap since they put those random limit generators up. God alone knows what it'll be like when people start getting done.