Almost 300 people caught exceeding temporay limit in 3 hours
Discussion
Almost 300 people were caught by a Talivan exceeding a temporary 30 limit by some roadworks on the A11 near Norwich (a link to the full story is further down)
The traffic goes right past the roadworkers so I'm not surprised they feel vulnerable and I'm sure the 30 limit is appropriate at the point where the roadworks start. However I have this nagging doubt that this isnt the best way to go about ensuring their safety and that all its going to do is p
s off 300 people, and the remaining thousands who go past there every day will keep driving as before with no safety benefit to the workers as a result.
I havent been along this section of road for a few weeks, but the limit used to start almost a mile back from the first bollard and although its since been moved nearer it still starts quite some way away. This leads to a tendency to ignore the limit until the roadworks are reached, and it wouldnt surprise me if a lot of people were caught some distance from the actual roadworks and not by more than a few mph over the limit either.
IMHO a flashing warning sign backed up by temporary fixed camera would be a better solution, people would then be given the chance to slow down before the roadworks and if they were still speeding then they'd (probably) deserve the ticket they'd get
from Eastern Evening News website
>> Edited by njwc on Tuesday 10th January 15:10
The traffic goes right past the roadworkers so I'm not surprised they feel vulnerable and I'm sure the 30 limit is appropriate at the point where the roadworks start. However I have this nagging doubt that this isnt the best way to go about ensuring their safety and that all its going to do is p
s off 300 people, and the remaining thousands who go past there every day will keep driving as before with no safety benefit to the workers as a result. I havent been along this section of road for a few weeks, but the limit used to start almost a mile back from the first bollard and although its since been moved nearer it still starts quite some way away. This leads to a tendency to ignore the limit until the roadworks are reached, and it wouldnt surprise me if a lot of people were caught some distance from the actual roadworks and not by more than a few mph over the limit either.
IMHO a flashing warning sign backed up by temporary fixed camera would be a better solution, people would then be given the chance to slow down before the roadworks and if they were still speeding then they'd (probably) deserve the ticket they'd get
from Eastern Evening News website
een said:
A speed camera set up to protect road workers clocked nearly 300 drivers speeding within just three hours.
The camera van was set up on the A11 at Thickthorn, near Norwich, after workers labouring on the Norfolk and Norwich University Hospital link road and new roundabout said they were worried about operating so near to speeding traffic.
They were also concerned about having to cross the road when vehicles were going at high speed.
A 30mph limit was imposed to protect workers and drivers negotiating the new layout but yesterday morning, 284 drivers were found breaking it.
One was clocked at 73mph, high enough to result in a disqualification, and others, including articulated lorries, were caught in excess of 50mph.
Bryan Edwards, spokesman for the Norfolk Casualty Reduction Partnership, stressed the camera was not put in place to generate revenue and said any fines would bypass the partnership and go straight to central Government.
He said conditions for the workers when traffic was going so fast were "scary" and that yesterday's high tally was "disturbing".
"I think it is disappointing that so many people are being selfish and not thinking about the workers who want to go home and see their families at the end of their day, not end up in a body bag," he said.
"They are trying to make the road safer for us all and the sooner they can get on with their job the better."
The van will be used for the duration of the project, which is due to finish next month.
>> Edited by njwc on Tuesday 10th January 15:10
At least there were apparently some workers on site and not just a lot of cones guarding empty road space. For many years the yellow Astravans owned by a local plant hire operator (so that t'lads don't have to drive home in an excavator), have been the fastest thing on the road. Can't imagine that things are so different in East Anglia.
I did this route yesterday morning though I didn’t notice the talivan 
The limit does indeed start a long way before the cones and I expect that it will be the clear but limited section of road that was monitored. This would be especially true during rush hour as the stationary traffic queues for the roundabout extend well beyond the cones.
The limit does indeed start a long way before the cones and I expect that it will be the clear but limited section of road that was monitored. This would be especially true during rush hour as the stationary traffic queues for the roundabout extend well beyond the cones.
Talk about spin!
This ridiculous 30 limit extending from a mile before the first bollard was a lesson in how to remove any last speck of respect left in Norfolk for the once sacred 30mph limit.
You can bet the camera was placed well before the roadworks, and you aren't told if workers were there or not either at the time.
And how many accidents happened during this terrifying display of 300 lunatic drivers going up to 80mph on an ordinary bit of dual carriageway that had some roadworks a mile away? Presumably if they were being that dangerous at least one of them would have spun out of control.
This bit of road became a complete shambles when the 30 limit was put in. You got a mix of cars travelling from 25mph to 80mph+ through the seemingly miles of dual carriageway that has no roadworks on it. And just to add some spice to the whole thing, anyone doing >30mph was looking out for hidden speed traps rather than the road ahead. Anybody but an imbecile can see that an inappropriate 30mph speed limit -- on trunk dual carriageway remember -- would cause elevated danger through increasing the speed differential.
If they had any intelligence they'd have put up the limit EXACTLY where the workers were and not a yard before, people would have seen the hazard, slowed down, respected the system and been delayed to the minimum. Everyone a winner.
But not everyone though... Edwards and his lucrative extortion project wouldn't have made half as much money.
And if he honestly believes that this whole sorry episode had even a grain of merit, he should be fired and replaced by someone with a clue.
SM
This ridiculous 30 limit extending from a mile before the first bollard was a lesson in how to remove any last speck of respect left in Norfolk for the once sacred 30mph limit.
You can bet the camera was placed well before the roadworks, and you aren't told if workers were there or not either at the time.
And how many accidents happened during this terrifying display of 300 lunatic drivers going up to 80mph on an ordinary bit of dual carriageway that had some roadworks a mile away? Presumably if they were being that dangerous at least one of them would have spun out of control.
This bit of road became a complete shambles when the 30 limit was put in. You got a mix of cars travelling from 25mph to 80mph+ through the seemingly miles of dual carriageway that has no roadworks on it. And just to add some spice to the whole thing, anyone doing >30mph was looking out for hidden speed traps rather than the road ahead. Anybody but an imbecile can see that an inappropriate 30mph speed limit -- on trunk dual carriageway remember -- would cause elevated danger through increasing the speed differential.
If they had any intelligence they'd have put up the limit EXACTLY where the workers were and not a yard before, people would have seen the hazard, slowed down, respected the system and been delayed to the minimum. Everyone a winner.
But not everyone though... Edwards and his lucrative extortion project wouldn't have made half as much money.
And if he honestly believes that this whole sorry episode had even a grain of merit, he should be fired and replaced by someone with a clue.
SM
I drive through this twice a day. There is *NO* work being carried out on the d/c at the moment - the only place workers are doing anything is on the roundabout itself, where they are quite exposed, but even in my E30 M3 I've not been able to get round it much over 60ish... 
I heard this story on the radio this morning - they even went as far as quoting some un-named worker as being "absolutely terrified" by the speeding cars - and it's so utterly fabricated it's almost funny.
They have the moved limit forward to a better position, but it's still too far back. I personally have almost got involved in more than one big accident because someone in front of me was doing 30 mph and someone coming up behind doing 70+ still. Witness also the large amount of skidmarks on the road near to where the old limit started. It's utter utter madness.
I heard this story on the radio this morning - they even went as far as quoting some un-named worker as being "absolutely terrified" by the speeding cars - and it's so utterly fabricated it's almost funny.
They have the moved limit forward to a better position, but it's still too far back. I personally have almost got involved in more than one big accident because someone in front of me was doing 30 mph and someone coming up behind doing 70+ still. Witness also the large amount of skidmarks on the road near to where the old limit started. It's utter utter madness.
I rarely see anyone working there ; Mrs Autismuk who drives through it most days says there's rarely anyone there.
The speed limit (30mph) went back about a mile and a half so it was ritually ignored by everyone, even the dodderers didn't slow down. The 'roadworks' are on a roundabout at the end of that mile and a half, and the actual 'works' protrude about 20-30 yards down the dual carriageway.
Workers may well be scared by the traffic going round the roundabout, but that's nothing to do with the dual carriageway.
Recently it was cut so now it's maybe the last few hundred yards at 30mph, but the contempt still holds.
What it actually needs is a tailback detection system. The junction is so crap that traffic queues back for 1 or 2 miles at peak time with an increase (I presume though don't have the stats) in shunts.
The limit doesn't help because it is inflexible. It would actually be a good thing for an overhead gantry type scenario - not sensible in this particular set of roadworks maybe, but a roadside sign warning of tailbacks with a detection system would be perfectly feasible.
Aside: Next to this on the EDP website is a story about the Police taking four hours to turn up to an incident (saying repeatedly they were on their way, apparently). The woman subsequently died.
Not directly linked, I know. But people *will* make the link mentally. Sad for the BiB.
>> Edited by autismuk on Wednesday 11th January 09:04
The speed limit (30mph) went back about a mile and a half so it was ritually ignored by everyone, even the dodderers didn't slow down. The 'roadworks' are on a roundabout at the end of that mile and a half, and the actual 'works' protrude about 20-30 yards down the dual carriageway.
Workers may well be scared by the traffic going round the roundabout, but that's nothing to do with the dual carriageway.
Recently it was cut so now it's maybe the last few hundred yards at 30mph, but the contempt still holds.
What it actually needs is a tailback detection system. The junction is so crap that traffic queues back for 1 or 2 miles at peak time with an increase (I presume though don't have the stats) in shunts.
The limit doesn't help because it is inflexible. It would actually be a good thing for an overhead gantry type scenario - not sensible in this particular set of roadworks maybe, but a roadside sign warning of tailbacks with a detection system would be perfectly feasible.
Aside: Next to this on the EDP website is a story about the Police taking four hours to turn up to an incident (saying repeatedly they were on their way, apparently). The woman subsequently died.
Not directly linked, I know. But people *will* make the link mentally. Sad for the BiB.
>> Edited by autismuk on Wednesday 11th January 09:04
I noted the details this morning as I came through. The 30 limit signs are over half a mile before the road works cones start. The cones start 150 meters before the give way for the roundabout. There is a coned off lay-by about 250 metres after the 30 limit signs (the only place a talivan could sit).
It is very unlikely that anyone would be speeding substantially at the point where the cones start given the short distance to the roundabout. (It’s busy enough and has such limited visibility that you expect to have to stop before entering the roundabout.) It is likely that people will be speeding at the lay-by as there is no increased danger due to the fact that the cones don’t start for another 500 metres. The fact that the fastest person caught was doing 72mph and lorries were, at best, doing 50mph shows that everyone had already started to slow down, in good safe time, for the road works and roundabout ahead. And it’s claimed that this is not about revenue generation!!
It is very unlikely that anyone would be speeding substantially at the point where the cones start given the short distance to the roundabout. (It’s busy enough and has such limited visibility that you expect to have to stop before entering the roundabout.) It is likely that people will be speeding at the lay-by as there is no increased danger due to the fact that the cones don’t start for another 500 metres. The fact that the fastest person caught was doing 72mph and lorries were, at best, doing 50mph shows that everyone had already started to slow down, in good safe time, for the road works and roundabout ahead. And it’s claimed that this is not about revenue generation!!
There's a picture on the EDP web site this morning, clearly showing the TaxVan sitting in that coned off layby.
I wonder how far back they were zapping people with the laser? It wouldn't surprise me at all if they were 'catching' people before the bloody limit even starts!
Again, no workmen on site this morning as I went through.
I wonder how far back they were zapping people with the laser? It wouldn't surprise me at all if they were 'catching' people before the bloody limit even starts!
Again, no workmen on site this morning as I went through.
OK so this is the A11 and it's not a motorway but remember back last summer when SafeSpeed's Paul Smith unearthed a Transport Research Lab report using a FoIA request which found that there was no difference to personal injury accidents on motorway roadworks whether or not speed cameras were in use. These orwellian cash machines are there in roadworks on motorways - more than anywhere - under the guise of safety and it's b0ll0x. There may be another TRL report buried somewhere that says the same for other roadworks, or maybe they've been told not to do the study...
1)If the reason the reduced limit and scamera were put in place was to protect the workers and 2)284 cars were caught speeding past the roadworks within a 3 hour period, then 3) does this not demonstrate the scamera does not work to reduce speed at all but simply catches those that speed.
If the aim is to protect the workers, the scamera aint working by virtue of the number of vehicles caught.
If the aim is to protect the workers, the scamera aint working by virtue of the number of vehicles caught.
Or use interactive driver signals, already proved (also by the TRL) to be more effective at improving safety than GATSOs, which do nothing - these money and life asving devices started to be more common than GATSOs in midlands m-ways roadworks at about the time of Paul's FoIA request. Coincidence of course. There are already signs that road humps are causing dangerous defects to vehicles' tyres and suspension so please let;s not have any more of those 
Article said:
A speed camera set up to protect road workers
Stop right there!
"Protect"????? Dictionary def states: "Protect- shield, secure, keep safe".
How the
can a speed camera van shield or keep safe anyone when they dont know the thing is there??????? The only "P" theyre protecting is Profit, while taking the "P" out of drivers.
Burn all talivans.
The story is a lie.
The picture in the paper shows the camera pointing away down the dual carriageway. The workers are on the roundabout behind the van, and the ones *complaining* are on the *other side* of the roundabout. Traffic slowing down in the picture will not help the workers because they have to go round the roundabout (chock full of road works) to get there.
Also, the £2.5m overspend is not down to delays, it's because they started before the project was finalised.
The picture in the paper shows the camera pointing away down the dual carriageway. The workers are on the roundabout behind the van, and the ones *complaining* are on the *other side* of the roundabout. Traffic slowing down in the picture will not help the workers because they have to go round the roundabout (chock full of road works) to get there.
Also, the £2.5m overspend is not down to delays, it's because they started before the project was finalised.
TangoAlpha said:
If the speed limit was moved nearer to the roundabout, would there be anywhere for the Talivan to park?
No!
TangoAlpha said:
Anyone think that the position of the layby had any bearing on the start of the speed limit?
The fact that the start of the limit was originally even further before the lay-by, then was brought back, but still included the lay-by does indicate a strong possibility of premeditation. . – If you are a cynic – like me!
Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff