Summons for speeding whilst overtaking?
Discussion
Hello all
Firstly, i'm a newbie here, so please be kind!
I've received a letter from Greater Manchester Police for driving at 54mph in a 30 zone. I was surprised to learn it's a 30 limit as the road is about 1/2 mile long and perfectly straight - anyway....
My issue is that I was overtaking a (what i considered to be) dangerous driver. This guy was behaving in a most irratic manner, speeding up and slowing down, glancing down at something on the passenger seat every few seconds. I finally got to overtake him, when it was perfectly safe to do so on this stretch of road. JUST as I pulled level with him, I seen the unmarked white van parked up on the pavement, with a guy wearing a yellow fluorescent jacket, taking my photograph.
Now, I have two questions:-
1) Do the police have to give you advance warning that they are going to get you with one of these camera's? I know that fixed gatso's and the like have to display signs in advance of the camera.
2) Do i have any sort of argument, given the dangerous manner in which the driver in front was behaving.
Cheers for any advice anyone can offer.
adam
Firstly, i'm a newbie here, so please be kind!
I've received a letter from Greater Manchester Police for driving at 54mph in a 30 zone. I was surprised to learn it's a 30 limit as the road is about 1/2 mile long and perfectly straight - anyway....
My issue is that I was overtaking a (what i considered to be) dangerous driver. This guy was behaving in a most irratic manner, speeding up and slowing down, glancing down at something on the passenger seat every few seconds. I finally got to overtake him, when it was perfectly safe to do so on this stretch of road. JUST as I pulled level with him, I seen the unmarked white van parked up on the pavement, with a guy wearing a yellow fluorescent jacket, taking my photograph.
Now, I have two questions:-
1) Do the police have to give you advance warning that they are going to get you with one of these camera's? I know that fixed gatso's and the like have to display signs in advance of the camera.
2) Do i have any sort of argument, given the dangerous manner in which the driver in front was behaving.
Cheers for any advice anyone can offer.
adam
Not good wn3. Not good at all.
54 in a 30 if they are following ACPO guidelines means a trip to Court automatically. If they do, by a strange quirk of fate, make a Conditional Offer i.e. pay £60/3 points, I would seriously consider snapping their hand off.
That system of street lighting at the side of the road should have given warning bells of a 30 limit unless signs to the contrary. Further instead of hanging back from a danger you put yourself at risk by an overtake. What if he had swerved, increased speed etc?
As I say it will probably be a Court case when you will have a chance to convince the Bench but from what you say very doubtful they will be impressed.
dvd
54 in a 30 if they are following ACPO guidelines means a trip to Court automatically. If they do, by a strange quirk of fate, make a Conditional Offer i.e. pay £60/3 points, I would seriously consider snapping their hand off.
That system of street lighting at the side of the road should have given warning bells of a 30 limit unless signs to the contrary. Further instead of hanging back from a danger you put yourself at risk by an overtake. What if he had swerved, increased speed etc?
As I say it will probably be a Court case when you will have a chance to convince the Bench but from what you say very doubtful they will be impressed.
dvd
wn3 said:
Hello all
Firstly, i'm a newbie here, so please be kind!
Certainly
wn3 said:
I've received a letter from Greater Manchester Police for driving at 54mph in a 30 zone. I was surprised to learn it's a 30 limit as the road is about 1/2 mile long and perfectly straight - anyway....
Sorry to hear that. 30 mph limits are mostly easy to recognise. Lamposts less than 200 meters apart in a built up area or repeater signs telling you the limits are the clue.
wn3 said:
My issue is that I was overtaking a (what i considered to be) dangerous driver. This guy was behaving in a most irratic manner, speeding up and slowing down, glancing down at something on the passenger seat every few seconds.
I finally got to overtake him, when it was perfectly safe to do so on this stretch of road. JUST as I pulled level with him, I seen the unmarked white van parked up on the pavement, with a guy wearing a yellow fluorescent jacket, taking my photograph.
Now, I have two questions:-
2) Do i have any sort of argument, given the dangerous manner in which the driver in front was behaving.
I would not quote anything like the above in your defence!
You recognised what you considered to be some dangerous driving with an erratic driver in front of you and then proceeded to put yourself in a more invidious position by passing that driver at nearly double the permitted limit! A recipe for disaster they will think! Your judgement and wallet will be sorely tested with logic like that I am afraid.
wn3 said:
1) Do the police have to give you advance warning that they are going to get you with one of these camera's? I know that fixed gatso's and the like have to display signs in advance of the camera.
No.
wn3 said:
Cheers for any advice anyone can offer.
adam
Pleasure!
Take MG's advice above. The Highway Code does permit exceeding the speed limit to facilitate a safer overtaking manouvre (can't remember where off the top of my head, but it is in there) however 56 in a 30 has to be deemed excessive.
Bit the bullet and pay up.
Be thankful it wasn't 60 - that's enough for a ban.
Bit the bullet and pay up.
Be thankful it wasn't 60 - that's enough for a ban.
Get thee hence to www.pepipoo.com where these things are discussed by people who know about the law (unlike the three wise monkeys you will find on the bench) and the clerk who is quite often a puppet for the scamera pratnerships.
Road traffic law is incredibly complex (despite protestations to the contrary by the prostituter) and there are many questions still to be answered about it.
DVD et al will gve you accurate and helpful advice - but it is not a complete story.
If you get pulled by the BiB then thats one thing - just hold your hand up and take it (becuase the chances are that they have pulled you for good reason, and have exercised their discretion). But getting flashed by a scamera is a whole different kettle of fish.
Sean
Road traffic law is incredibly complex (despite protestations to the contrary by the prostituter) and there are many questions still to be answered about it.
DVD et al will gve you accurate and helpful advice - but it is not a complete story.
If you get pulled by the BiB then thats one thing - just hold your hand up and take it (becuase the chances are that they have pulled you for good reason, and have exercised their discretion). But getting flashed by a scamera is a whole different kettle of fish.
Sean
chris d said:
Be thankful it wasn't 60 - that's enough for a ban.
So is 56!!
I'll bow to greater knowledge, but the only time I had anything to do with this (professionally, I hasten to add) I was under the impression that it was analagious to the 100 in a 70 and thus a 30mph differential was needed. Is that not the case?
Edited to ask: are you talking about discretionary rather than automatic?
>> Edited by J1mmyD on Monday 6th March 15:55
NugentS said:
Get thee hence to www.pepipoo.com where these things are discussed by people who know about the law (unlike the three wise monkeys you will find on the bench) and the clerk who is quite often a puppet for the scamera pratnerships.
The clerk of the court is there to advise the magistrates on 'matters of law'. Unless it is a stipendiary magistrate of course. They don't take sides or fly the flag for anyone. Hello!!
just looking for this overtaking speeding thing in the highway code. Didn't find it, but did find.....
131: Traffic calming measures. On some roads there are features such as road humps, chicanes and narrowings which are intended to slow you down. When you approach these features reduce your speed. Allow cyclists and motorcyclists room to pass through them. Maintain a reduced speed along the whole of the stretch of road within the calming measures. Give way to oncoming traffic if directed to do so by signs. You should not overtake other moving vehicles whilst in these areas.
Am I missing something here?. The idea of these 'features' is to slow you down, so you don't realy need to be told to slow down do you?. If you need to be told to slow down then surely the features themselves don't actually do the job.
Also not keen on the one where you have right of way to overtake the 'feature' while the oncoming car has to stop. Would you trust them to stop? I wouldn't.
131: Traffic calming measures. On some roads there are features such as road humps, chicanes and narrowings which are intended to slow you down. When you approach these features reduce your speed. Allow cyclists and motorcyclists room to pass through them. Maintain a reduced speed along the whole of the stretch of road within the calming measures. Give way to oncoming traffic if directed to do so by signs. You should not overtake other moving vehicles whilst in these areas.
Am I missing something here?. The idea of these 'features' is to slow you down, so you don't realy need to be told to slow down do you?. If you need to be told to slow down then surely the features themselves don't actually do the job.
Also not keen on the one where you have right of way to overtake the 'feature' while the oncoming car has to stop. Would you trust them to stop? I wouldn't.
To be honest if the driver in front was that erratic I would have slowed right to a crawl and let him get out of the way. Fair enough if they were just being slow I would have blatted round them, but if I thought something was seriously amiss, slow down, possibly even stop and phone BiB.
I'm with the side of the 'If his driving is that bad then drop back'
And I'd even have gone as far as stopping and phoning the police.
As for the Breaking the speed limit to overtake, (I'm willing to be put in my place) Thats a big untruth, The Limit is the LIMIT!
I'd settle for any points and fine they have offered and be greatfull, ignorance does not make it ok!
And I'd even have gone as far as stopping and phoning the police.
As for the Breaking the speed limit to overtake, (I'm willing to be put in my place) Thats a big untruth, The Limit is the LIMIT!
I'd settle for any points and fine they have offered and be greatfull, ignorance does not make it ok!
chris d said:
Get thee hence to www.pepipoo.com where these things are discussed by people who know about the law (unlike the three wise monkeys you will find on the bench) and the clerk who is quite often a puppet for the scamera pratnerships.
The clerk of the court is there to advise the magistrates on 'matters of law'. Unless it is a stipendiary magistrate of course. They don't take sides or fly the flag for anyone. Hello!!
I am sorry - but that is very funny (note that I did not say always)
Sean
That has cleared that up for me, then.
Thank you one and all for your comments.
I will "happily" accept any points and a fine.
I think i might start listening to Radio 3 whilst driving. That should promote feelings of calm and well-being, and compassion for other drivers.
Cheers everyone!
Thank you one and all for your comments.
I will "happily" accept any points and a fine.
I think i might start listening to Radio 3 whilst driving. That should promote feelings of calm and well-being, and compassion for other drivers.
Cheers everyone!
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