Speeding advice.........
Discussion
A mate of mine just received a notice of prosecution for doing 41mph in a 40mph limit!
Is this unusual? Seems pretty harsh to me.
I seem to recall seeing a chart on a website somewhere that showed the speed levels that attract prosecution - ie the sort of margin they allow. Pretty sure it was based on recomendations by the Association of Chief Pollice Officers, or something like that.
Anyone know where I can find this sort of info?
Is this unusual? Seems pretty harsh to me.
I seem to recall seeing a chart on a website somewhere that showed the speed levels that attract prosecution - ie the sort of margin they allow. Pretty sure it was based on recomendations by the Association of Chief Pollice Officers, or something like that.
Anyone know where I can find this sort of info?
Was it a Gatso or SPECS (average speed) trap? I think the average speed ones work to a lower 'margin'...
Either way, might be time for him to invest in a road angel (or similar), mine has saved me a few times in the last 6 months. If you don't mind the older style ones they can be picked up on ebay for about £100 with a lifetime update subscription. Less than the cost of 2 fines!
>> Edited by LeeME3 on Monday 22 May 13:27
Either way, might be time for him to invest in a road angel (or similar), mine has saved me a few times in the last 6 months. If you don't mind the older style ones they can be picked up on ebay for about £100 with a lifetime update subscription. Less than the cost of 2 fines!
>> Edited by LeeME3 on Monday 22 May 13:27
This is an except from www.acpo.police.uk/asp/policies/Data/speed_enforcement_guidelines_web_v7_foi.doc
The guidance to police officers is that it is anticipated that, other than in the most exceptional circumstances, the issue of fixed penalty notices and summonses is likely to be the minimum appropriate enforcement action as soon as the following speeds have been reached:
Limit Fixed Penalty Summons
20 mph 25 mph 35 mph
30 mph 35 mph 50 mph
40 mph 46 mph 66 mph
50 mph 57 mph 76 mph
60 mph 68 mph 86 mph
70 mph 79 mph 96 mph
The guidance to police officers is that it is anticipated that, other than in the most exceptional circumstances, the issue of fixed penalty notices and summonses is likely to be the minimum appropriate enforcement action as soon as the following speeds have been reached:
Limit Fixed Penalty Summons
20 mph 25 mph 35 mph
30 mph 35 mph 50 mph
40 mph 46 mph 66 mph
50 mph 57 mph 76 mph
60 mph 68 mph 86 mph
70 mph 79 mph 96 mph
mbutchers said:
The rule of thumb (from a traffic cop I know), is I believe 10% +3mph, so if it really is 41 in a 40, it shouldn't even go to court......There would be too much margin for error to get within 1mph.....
I agree. Most cameras should be set at a reasonable level of discretion. Surely you would expect c.47 in a 40?
Thanks for the info.
Yes, I have seen, held, read the NIP.
It's obviously computer generated so I doubt it has been manually reviewed before sending it out. My mate is naturally agrieved but does not know if it is worth contesting it.
Last one I got was for 101 in a 70mph, so obviously I haven't been contesting any either!
Although I did see some bloke got off on a technicality last week when doing 135mph or something. Nice one!
Yes, I have seen, held, read the NIP.
It's obviously computer generated so I doubt it has been manually reviewed before sending it out. My mate is naturally agrieved but does not know if it is worth contesting it.
Last one I got was for 101 in a 70mph, so obviously I haven't been contesting any either!
Although I did see some bloke got off on a technicality last week when doing 135mph or something. Nice one!
If this a genuine NIP for 41 in a 40 then for gods sake don't let him sign it or do anything until he's been to www.pepipoo.com and posted about it on there.
If you can post a scan to prove it's genuine (they've had lots of reports of 41 in a 40 etc, all of which have been fake, so they're a little suspicious) you'll get more help than you thought was possible.
If you can post a scan to prove it's genuine (they've had lots of reports of 41 in a 40 etc, all of which have been fake, so they're a little suspicious) you'll get more help than you thought was possible.
supersport said:Except that exceeding the speed limit by 1 mph is an offence.
Is within the margin of error, your mates speedo cannot possibly be expected to be accurate to with 1mph so they can take a running jump!
Not arguing against your point, as I agree entirely, but as vh would say 'the limit is the limit and the law is the law'. The fact that the law is an ass doesn't compute in some places.
turbobloke said:
Is within the margin of error, your mates speedo cannot possibly be expected to be accurate to with 1mph so they can take a running jump!
Not arguing against your point, as I agree entirely, but as vh would say 'the limit is the limit and the law is the law'. The fact that the law is an ass doesn't compute in some places.
The law is indeed the law!
However, if the enforcement of the law is dependant on instrumentation that is recognised as not being acurate enough to measure within 1mph, i.e. that installed in probably every single standard production car on the planet, you can't be prosecuted for breaking a law for which it was impossible for you to know if you were breaking it or not, obviously assuming that you weren't travelling and the limit + 10%. I imagine that most people are aware that they have a 10% margin to account for error!
I'm a grumpy old man, but what I would do is to shread the NiP, then shread any second one I got, then not sign for any summons and ignore it completely. Then wait to be arrested for doing 1 mph over a limit and let them put me in a cell and up before the beak with a good solicitor to show just how stupid this is. But then, being of retirement age I can spare the time, afford the cost and enjoy a laugh at the expense of the authorities if this is the level of pettyness to which they have sunk.
1 MPH, that's not even the width of the speedo needle FFS.
This MUST be fought or just ignored and treated with the contempt it dseserves.
1 MPH, that's not even the width of the speedo needle FFS.
This MUST be fought or just ignored and treated with the contempt it dseserves.
supersport said:I agree entirely with just about every word of your post and have said the very same thing in similar circumstances on previous threads! My only point was to show up, in the way chosen, that the law on vehicle speed isn't an ass, it's the mutated b@stard offspring of a donkey crossed with a politician.
Is within the margin of error, your mates speedo cannot possibly be expected to be accurate to with 1mph so they can take a running jump!
Not arguing against your point, as I agree entirely, but as vh would say 'the limit is the limit and the law is the law'. The fact that the law is an ass doesn't compute in some places.
The law is indeed the law!
However, if the enforcement of the law is dependant on instrumentation that is recognised as not being acurate enough to measure within 1mph, i.e. that installed in probably every single standard production car on the planet, you can't be prosecuted for breaking a law for which it was impossible for you to know if you were breaking it or not, obviously assuming that you weren't travelling and the limit + 10%. I imagine that most people are aware that they have a 10% margin to account for error!
ETA - being unaware of the speed limit offence because of instrumentation and visual limitations won't help, ignorance is no defence in law
>> Edited by turbobloke on Monday 22 May 15:55
s2art said:Their measurements are indeed likely to be more than accurate enough, given the equipment and methods used it's often +/- 0.1 mph so even 40.9 is 'guilty'
Be interesting seing them prove their measurement can be so accurate though....
7db said:Yes yes yes some sanity if they drop it on public interest grounds.
You might suggest that CPS check their view that the prosecution passes both the evidential and public interests tests.
turbobloke said:
Be interesting seing them prove their measurement can be so accurate though.... 7db said:Yes yes yes some sanity if they drop it on public interest grounds.
You might suggest that CPS check their view that the prosecution passes both the evidential and public interests tests.
I thought that there was some evidence of calibration drift/timing error with Gatsos?
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