Parking Ticket advice
Discussion
Hi guys after a bit of advice here.
A little while ago I got a parking ticket in Birmingham parked on a single yellow line on a Sunday.
I thought yellow lines didn't usually apply to sundays unless clearly marked.
This is the response I got from Birmingham City Council.
The penalty charge notice wwas issued to your vehicle as it was parked in a loading gap marked by a yellow line> I must advise you that Waterloo Street is situated in a controlled parking zone CPZ. Waiting restrictions shown by single yellow lines in this zone are in force monday to sunday between the hours of 8.00 am and 6.00 pm. These restrictions are indicated at the entrance to the controlled parking zone. Where individual restrictions apply a time plate with a yellow background will indicate the hours of restriction.
Thing is I looked around when I parked and could not see any signs and took photographs of the car parked. How close to the yellow line does the sign need to be? It was a yellow line between 2 parking bays
Any one here got any suggestions as to whether this is right or not..
Thanks
Richard
A little while ago I got a parking ticket in Birmingham parked on a single yellow line on a Sunday.
I thought yellow lines didn't usually apply to sundays unless clearly marked.
This is the response I got from Birmingham City Council.
The penalty charge notice wwas issued to your vehicle as it was parked in a loading gap marked by a yellow line> I must advise you that Waterloo Street is situated in a controlled parking zone CPZ. Waiting restrictions shown by single yellow lines in this zone are in force monday to sunday between the hours of 8.00 am and 6.00 pm. These restrictions are indicated at the entrance to the controlled parking zone. Where individual restrictions apply a time plate with a yellow background will indicate the hours of restriction.
Thing is I looked around when I parked and could not see any signs and took photographs of the car parked. How close to the yellow line does the sign need to be? It was a yellow line between 2 parking bays
Any one here got any suggestions as to whether this is right or not..
Thanks
Richard
With a CPZ the main signs are situated either side of a road, like a speed limit sign.
The pictures look like this:
In order to fight this you'll need to find an entrance route in to the zone that does not have both of the CPZ signs.
Lots of information here: www.cpz.org.uk/
>> Edited by puggit on Wednesday 31st May 08:40
The pictures look like this:
In order to fight this you'll need to find an entrance route in to the zone that does not have both of the CPZ signs.
Lots of information here: www.cpz.org.uk/
>> Edited by puggit on Wednesday 31st May 08:40
As stated information on the restriction is given on the sign at the start of Control Zone. Individual plates are no longer required at intervals along the yellow line restiction inside the Zone because the information is at the entrance. However if it changed to a double yellow then a plate is required at the change point because there is a different restriction then in force.
dvd
dvd
Simple, ask them to prove it, a traffic wardens say is not enough, ask them for photorgraphic evidence and any witnesses the warden has and to see their evidence in full before trial, that is your right as the defence, the wardens word saying it was definately your car is not enough, maybe he wrote down the registration wrong, can he prove without reasonable doubt ?, no he cant, I have used this before, it works.
fight it.
fight it.
Slightly OT I guess, but it's interesting that these signs then do not require repeaters. Similarly, when entering a 20 zone, you must see the sign at the start and do not get repeaters. Therefore, the argument about having 30 repeaters "to avoid confusion" would seem to be a non-starter as things are actually moving in the opposite direction.
There are just so many signs around now, it's sometimes really hard not to miss one or two. And direction signs are getting bigger and bigger yet speed limits and warning signs remain the same size. We could do with some new standards that are then enforced, rather than continue with the "more is better" approach at every road junction.
There are just so many signs around now, it's sometimes really hard not to miss one or two. And direction signs are getting bigger and bigger yet speed limits and warning signs remain the same size. We could do with some new standards that are then enforced, rather than continue with the "more is better" approach at every road junction.
Spooky, I got one of these (sounds like the same place, in fact) in January. Just got the Notice to Owner which follows my initial letter saying that I wasn't committing an offence.
While I have no idea at this stage whether the CPZ (if indeed there is one) was properly signed, the ticket states that I was parked in a loading bay so is incorrect in any case. I'm going to investigate the CPZ but do drop me an e-mail if you want to pool resources. Fortunately I work very close to Waterloo Street so, when I can be bothered to do it, I'll go for a walk to find the CPZ boundary and check the signage.
While I have no idea at this stage whether the CPZ (if indeed there is one) was properly signed, the ticket states that I was parked in a loading bay so is incorrect in any case. I'm going to investigate the CPZ but do drop me an e-mail if you want to pool resources. Fortunately I work very close to Waterloo Street so, when I can be bothered to do it, I'll go for a walk to find the CPZ boundary and check the signage.
DVD, sounds like Central Parking Zone; Inner Zone
Also on a Sunday vehicles may park on street free on Sundays, Bank Holidays and Christmas Day but not in the areas restricted by yellow lines, loading bays, reserved for doctors, police vehicles only...... (Ducks and runs for cover.)
Devil will be in the detail, ie if the order and signage correct. I drove into this area last week and having previously seen this thread kept a weather eye aloft and tbh didn't spot the CPZ signs on my access route, which tbh was a shade unusual admittedly.
FiF
Also on a Sunday vehicles may park on street free on Sundays, Bank Holidays and Christmas Day but not in the areas restricted by yellow lines, loading bays, reserved for doctors, police vehicles only...... (Ducks and runs for cover.)
Devil will be in the detail, ie if the order and signage correct. I drove into this area last week and having previously seen this thread kept a weather eye aloft and tbh didn't spot the CPZ signs on my access route, which tbh was a shade unusual admittedly.
FiF
SJobson said:
DVD, I think it's Birmingham City Council. Haven't been able to find it myself (but then I did only use Google...) - be very grateful if you can find it.
Still no substitute for finding the signs that I apparently passed on the way into the zone.
Birmingham Controlled Parking Zone Info
On street parking
Info on Sunday parking
DVD I don't have access to the Traffic Order though I guess can be got at with a bit of effort if you cannot. Let me know.
Also consider worrying aspect of previous FiF comment above that I headed into the area, knowing it was a CPZ, actively looking for the signs and failed to spot same. What chance a visitor?
Then again it was a bit hectic that day with a lot going on so maybe my observation was a bit carp on a three ring circus day.
The legislation taking parking etc out of the realms of RTA 1991 and therefore decriminalising is contained at:
www.tinyurl.com/nq4sd
I thought it may have itemised the areas of zones but it is all encompassing covering the whole of Birmingham. Presumably when the 1991 Order was granted then they have gone to work on indivual Traffic Orders for the seperate Zones mentioned by Fif and these will no doubt identify the area involved which should be signed at entry.
Sorry Simon thought the Order may have given more.
dvd
www.tinyurl.com/nq4sd
I thought it may have itemised the areas of zones but it is all encompassing covering the whole of Birmingham. Presumably when the 1991 Order was granted then they have gone to work on indivual Traffic Orders for the seperate Zones mentioned by Fif and these will no doubt identify the area involved which should be signed at entry.
Sorry Simon thought the Order may have given more.
dvd
DVD will testify that I am a cynical old grump but the one of the things significant about a CPZ is that the signs are all theoretically on the entrance routes and there is reduced signing at street level within the zone.
You know having trawled around Birmingham web site and their multiple pages on parking something strikes me.
The one thing that is missing from the website is a clear explanation of the area covered by the CPZ and the various zones within. All very very vague.
I expected to find a map with the boundaries clearly delineated. Not rocket science is it?
Then consider the situation to drivers entering the area, lots of street furniture and busy watching various hazards pedestrians, cyclists and other traffic. Easy to miss the signs amongst the welter of other stuff?
So why the website omission? Surely not to further confuse drivers and thus increase revenue?
You know having trawled around Birmingham web site and their multiple pages on parking something strikes me.
The one thing that is missing from the website is a clear explanation of the area covered by the CPZ and the various zones within. All very very vague.
I expected to find a map with the boundaries clearly delineated. Not rocket science is it?
Then consider the situation to drivers entering the area, lots of street furniture and busy watching various hazards pedestrians, cyclists and other traffic. Easy to miss the signs amongst the welter of other stuff?
So why the website omission? Surely not to further confuse drivers and thus increase revenue?
SJobson said:
FiF, do you have any idea where the boundary might be - in particular in the region of Snow Hill station? I suspect that's where I entered the CPZ. Will go for a little walk at lunchtime to find out.
Hmmm, now wondering whether the incorrect penalty code defence is going to work...
Hmmm, now wondering whether the incorrect penalty code defence is going to work...
To be honest NAFC. I suspect the CPZ boundary is much much further out than that based on the followng.
Brummagen council website said:
Birmingham currently has three Controlled Parking Zones:
The Central Area Zone scheme is split approximately along the line of the Queensway into Inner and Outer areas zone.
The Jewellery Quarter and Gun Quarter zones both lie between the Queensway and the Ring Road.
That would put Snow hill in the Inner zone along with Waterloo street. Be interesting to see if there are any signs along the line of the Queensway, and exits therefrom. How about a walk up the island here ie jn with St Chads queensway/ A41 Constitution Hill / SnowHill Queensway twds Colmore Circus?
As I say I was looking for the signs but failed to spot. On the other hand don't set too much store by that as it was one of those* days and other things took priority for much of the time.
*You know the sort of day I mean. When everyone is back in the office / canteen having a nice cup of tea and a biscuit, the general concensus is that there must be an easier way to earn a living. One armed paper hanger moonlighting in the evenings as ringmaster to a three ringed circus came to mind.
Edited by Flat in Fifth on Tuesday 6th June 11:59
Further to the question where the boundary might be:-
Order states all roads within City of Birmingam except
1) M6 motorway for whole of its length on the City of Brum including on and off slip roads.
2) A38(M) Motorway, known as Aston Expressway , from junction with Mill street to junction with Gravelly Hill, including on and off slip roads.
Thats it.
So according to my understanding that means every single road into out of City must have the two CPZ boundary signs. Yeah right!
What was the phrase that Jim Royle used? My ar..!
Order states all roads within City of Birmingam except
1) M6 motorway for whole of its length on the City of Brum including on and off slip roads.
2) A38(M) Motorway, known as Aston Expressway , from junction with Mill street to junction with Gravelly Hill, including on and off slip roads.
Thats it.
So according to my understanding that means every single road into out of City must have the two CPZ boundary signs. Yeah right!
What was the phrase that Jim Royle used? My ar..!
Edited by Flat in Fifth on Tuesday 6th June 12:13
I've just been for a wander around - from Waterloo St along Colmore Row to Snow Hill, then down to St Chad's Circus and back up the other side of the railway line. No CPZ signs on any of those roads. Are there signs at the end of the A38(M), I wonder?
The different zones would imply to me that each zone would need to be marked as a CPZ in itself, too; so there should be something separating my walk from the Gun Quarter and Jewellery Quarter zones.
I think I shall make another journey into town by car before I argue that there aren't any signs, though.
The different zones would imply to me that each zone would need to be marked as a CPZ in itself, too; so there should be something separating my walk from the Gun Quarter and Jewellery Quarter zones.
I think I shall make another journey into town by car before I argue that there aren't any signs, though.
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