Employment Law question - phone calls at work
Discussion
Hi all,
I'm hoping for an employment expert to point me in the direction of either case law or some useful information.
A person has come to me for advice, they work for a group of medics in an administrative role. They also have cancer and has been having treatment for over a year, trying to keep disruption at work to a minimum (using annual leave for chemo) and trying to lead a normal a life as possible.
They find themselves in need of a second opinion about their cancer care and have had to make a few phone calls during work hours to arrange test results and notes to be transferred. These calls can't be made outside of work hours as the hospital secretaries are not available then.
This person now finds themselves being disciplined for making personal phone calls at work.
I have suggested that disability discrimination forces the employer to make a reasonable consideration of the condition, but can anyone point me to a specific piece of advice/text which they can use in their defence about being allowed to make a few phone calls under these circumstances?
Don't get me started on the moral issues here, it's not the first instance of this type of problem at work for the person concerned, but I'm just trying to help them to keep working and any assistance would be gratefully received.
Thanks
I'm hoping for an employment expert to point me in the direction of either case law or some useful information.
A person has come to me for advice, they work for a group of medics in an administrative role. They also have cancer and has been having treatment for over a year, trying to keep disruption at work to a minimum (using annual leave for chemo) and trying to lead a normal a life as possible.
They find themselves in need of a second opinion about their cancer care and have had to make a few phone calls during work hours to arrange test results and notes to be transferred. These calls can't be made outside of work hours as the hospital secretaries are not available then.
This person now finds themselves being disciplined for making personal phone calls at work.
I have suggested that disability discrimination forces the employer to make a reasonable consideration of the condition, but can anyone point me to a specific piece of advice/text which they can use in their defence about being allowed to make a few phone calls under these circumstances?
Don't get me started on the moral issues here, it's not the first instance of this type of problem at work for the person concerned, but I'm just trying to help them to keep working and any assistance would be gratefully received.
Thanks
Miss Pitstop said:
Hi all,
I'm hoping for an employment expert to point me in the direction of either case law or some useful information.
A person has come to me for advice, they work for a group of medics in an administrative role. They also have cancer and has been having treatment for over a year, trying to keep disruption at work to a minimum (using annual leave for chemo) and trying to lead a normal a life as possible.
They find themselves in need of a second opinion about their cancer care and have had to make a few phone calls during work hours to arrange test results and notes to be transferred. These calls can't be made outside of work hours as the hospital secretaries are not available then.
This person now finds themselves being disciplined for making personal phone calls at work.
I have suggested that disability discrimination forces the employer to make a reasonable consideration of the condition, but can anyone point me to a specific piece of advice/text which they can use in their defence about being allowed to make a few phone calls under these circumstances?
Don't get me started on the moral issues here, it's not the first instance of this type of problem at work for the person concerned, but I'm just trying to help them to keep working and any assistance would be gratefully received.
Thanks
Sounds like you've been spun half the truth.I'm hoping for an employment expert to point me in the direction of either case law or some useful information.
A person has come to me for advice, they work for a group of medics in an administrative role. They also have cancer and has been having treatment for over a year, trying to keep disruption at work to a minimum (using annual leave for chemo) and trying to lead a normal a life as possible.
They find themselves in need of a second opinion about their cancer care and have had to make a few phone calls during work hours to arrange test results and notes to be transferred. These calls can't be made outside of work hours as the hospital secretaries are not available then.
This person now finds themselves being disciplined for making personal phone calls at work.
I have suggested that disability discrimination forces the employer to make a reasonable consideration of the condition, but can anyone point me to a specific piece of advice/text which they can use in their defence about being allowed to make a few phone calls under these circumstances?
Don't get me started on the moral issues here, it's not the first instance of this type of problem at work for the person concerned, but I'm just trying to help them to keep working and any assistance would be gratefully received.
Thanks
No employer would behave like this unless (a) the situation hasn't been made clear, or (b) the calls in question are amde up of a few about the cancer and then loads more for hours a day which aren't.
Well you'll get me started! You... fccuking.... what?!
How can they discipline this?! Sell story to national news paper. Pay for any cancer treatment going. Kill, I suspect the single w@nker manager, for making such disciplinary. Or pay me to do it for them.
I mean, did they EVER consider that the person may be worrying a little bit more about their life, than getting told off about phonecalls at work?
Jesus! What is the matter with this country?!
How can they discipline this?! Sell story to national news paper. Pay for any cancer treatment going. Kill, I suspect the single w@nker manager, for making such disciplinary. Or pay me to do it for them.
I mean, did they EVER consider that the person may be worrying a little bit more about their life, than getting told off about phonecalls at work?
Jesus! What is the matter with this country?!
It was a non work related phonecall therefore classed as a personal phonecall.
Therefore the employee was making personal phone calls in working hours without permission to do so, and assumed because of their "condition" it was ok.
This is just a simple sign of disrespect and therefore the employee needs to learn that they should ask permission first before making these "phonecalls" in working hours which their employer is still paying them for.
No sympathy as it was an act of disrespect no matter what the "context" was.
This has absoloutly nothing to do with cancer, this is merely the employer thinking they should get special treatment as they have this condition and should be allowed to make some personal phonecalls during working hours.
( I am sure the manager would have been ok with it assuming it wasn't going to distrupt their work for too long )
Therefore the employee was making personal phone calls in working hours without permission to do so, and assumed because of their "condition" it was ok.
This is just a simple sign of disrespect and therefore the employee needs to learn that they should ask permission first before making these "phonecalls" in working hours which their employer is still paying them for.
No sympathy as it was an act of disrespect no matter what the "context" was.
This has absoloutly nothing to do with cancer, this is merely the employer thinking they should get special treatment as they have this condition and should be allowed to make some personal phonecalls during working hours.
( I am sure the manager would have been ok with it assuming it wasn't going to distrupt their work for too long )
Edited by ipwn on Friday 19th September 14:55
I'm not a lawyer - but an employer....
Firstly I think it falls into the territory of what is 'reasonable' and possibly practical too. If she was my employee I would think it acceptable to make several calls of this type due to her health. But equally I could understand some employers worrying that it sets a precedence and a license for all employees to make dozens of private calls with a 'well you let her do it' kind of thing.
The legal test would probably be what is 'reasonable'.
She is entitled, of course, to take time off - currently she's not doing that.
Firstly I think it falls into the territory of what is 'reasonable' and possibly practical too. If she was my employee I would think it acceptable to make several calls of this type due to her health. But equally I could understand some employers worrying that it sets a precedence and a license for all employees to make dozens of private calls with a 'well you let her do it' kind of thing.
The legal test would probably be what is 'reasonable'.
She is entitled, of course, to take time off - currently she's not doing that.
Edited by NDA on Friday 19th September 15:08
It was a work phone. I completely believe this person, they have been previously threatened with a pay & hours cut for not being able to speak to people on the phone... due to mouth ulcers from their chemo. That line was thankfully dropped when a union rep stepped in. They have been very dignified so far but can only take so much. They also want to keep working as staying at home "on the sick" would be mind numbing.
I hear the comments about the phone calls not being related to the condition, but what employer doesn't let a member of staff who is terminally ill make a few phone calls to check appointments etc.
I hear the comments about the phone calls not being related to the condition, but what employer doesn't let a member of staff who is terminally ill make a few phone calls to check appointments etc.
That sounds blatantly preposterous and since we are getting information 3rd hand it's ahrd to know what to think.
The only reason I could see the employeers getting annoyed would be if the employee claimed they could do no phone work because of ulcers and then spent ages talking on the phone to the hospital/clinic/whatever. If it was that bad that they couldn't do the phone work then how can they use the phone for other things?
Something doesn't seem right, no employer would be vindictive enough to behave how you've described on those facts alone.
The only reason I could see the employeers getting annoyed would be if the employee claimed they could do no phone work because of ulcers and then spent ages talking on the phone to the hospital/clinic/whatever. If it was that bad that they couldn't do the phone work then how can they use the phone for other things?
Something doesn't seem right, no employer would be vindictive enough to behave how you've described on those facts alone.
Hmmmm.
Imagine a scenario where an employee is not a five star performer, the company is struggling at the moment, then she gets ill. She can't use the phone because of mouth ulcers. Then she's always on the phone arranging doctors appointments - disrupts the team with her problems....
Very sad for her (of course) but let's not immediately assume the company is awful.
Scenario 2 - she's a brilliant and popular contributor within the company. The company are not supporting her. This would be fertile ground for any lawyer as it could fall into constructive dismissal (as, in truth, would scenario one, but with less traction perhaps).
Edit
PS, I was suggesting pretty much what Geronimo posted.
Imagine a scenario where an employee is not a five star performer, the company is struggling at the moment, then she gets ill. She can't use the phone because of mouth ulcers. Then she's always on the phone arranging doctors appointments - disrupts the team with her problems....
Very sad for her (of course) but let's not immediately assume the company is awful.
Scenario 2 - she's a brilliant and popular contributor within the company. The company are not supporting her. This would be fertile ground for any lawyer as it could fall into constructive dismissal (as, in truth, would scenario one, but with less traction perhaps).
Edit
PS, I was suggesting pretty much what Geronimo posted.
Edited by NDA on Friday 19th September 15:18
Just to clarify - the mouth ulcer issue was only during the chemo.
The phone calls in question now were in the past week so the two issues are unrelated.
I have suggested Employment lawyers but the person said they have no strength to fight, which is perhaps understandable in the circumstances.
The phone calls in question now were in the past week so the two issues are unrelated.
I have suggested Employment lawyers but the person said they have no strength to fight, which is perhaps understandable in the circumstances.
I also believe that there may be more to it.
Come on seriously, what employer would hit an employee with a discplinary for making calls to a hospital. Granted, maybe she should have asked but any manager thats any good would have sat the employee down and discussed it.
Is it a large or small company? If large then I'm assuming HR Dept would get involved and they would normally think\discuss it before taking such steps.
Come on seriously, what employer would hit an employee with a discplinary for making calls to a hospital. Granted, maybe she should have asked but any manager thats any good would have sat the employee down and discussed it.
Is it a large or small company? If large then I'm assuming HR Dept would get involved and they would normally think\discuss it before taking such steps.
Miss Pitstop said:
Just to clarify - the mouth ulcer issue was only during the chemo.
The phone calls in question now were in the past week so the two issues are unrelated.
I have suggested Employment lawyers but the person said they have no strength to fight, which is perhaps understandable in the circumstances.
How many phone calls was she making?The phone calls in question now were in the past week so the two issues are unrelated.
I have suggested Employment lawyers but the person said they have no strength to fight, which is perhaps understandable in the circumstances.
silver.fox.2008 said:
Miss Pitstop said:
Just to clarify - the mouth ulcer issue was only during the chemo.
The phone calls in question now were in the past week so the two issues are unrelated.
I have suggested Employment lawyers but the person said they have no strength to fight, which is perhaps understandable in the circumstances.
How many phone calls was she making?The phone calls in question now were in the past week so the two issues are unrelated.
I have suggested Employment lawyers but the person said they have no strength to fight, which is perhaps understandable in the circumstances.
Ok so perhaps it would have beenpolite to ask to use the phone first.
But JEEZUS CHERIST
what sort of petty w
r of a boss results to disciplinary procedure when a little word to the effect that some discretion should be excercised would have sufficed and caused far less stress in a life that is probably already stressed tothe eyeballs.
I would suggest being signed off sick with boss induced stress for a few weeks not to mention asking how the cancer could have been effected/caused by the working environment.
That should give the boss something else to think about.
But JEEZUS CHERIST
what sort of petty w
r of a boss results to disciplinary procedure when a little word to the effect that some discretion should be excercised would have sufficed and caused far less stress in a life that is probably already stressed tothe eyeballs.I would suggest being signed off sick with boss induced stress for a few weeks not to mention asking how the cancer could have been effected/caused by the working environment.
That should give the boss something else to think about.
It's a small company run by 1 manager and lots of medics.
The phone calls were only relate to sorting her second opinion, so perhaps 5 to 10 over a week. She's having to cordinate results from various sources.
I hear what you say that she should have asked first - I guess that's a fair point.
As for their being something else to it, my personal view (and not hers) is that knowing the employers I believe her. I feel they may want to be rid of her before she costs them money by being off sick. Tha's purely my opinion though.
The phone calls were only relate to sorting her second opinion, so perhaps 5 to 10 over a week. She's having to cordinate results from various sources.
I hear what you say that she should have asked first - I guess that's a fair point.
As for their being something else to it, my personal view (and not hers) is that knowing the employers I believe her. I feel they may want to be rid of her before she costs them money by being off sick. Tha's purely my opinion though.
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