Tuesday 4th May 2004

Euro Warning

Be aware of the conequences of committing motoring offences abroad. Leave your radar detector at home...

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The RAC Foundation is warning drivers that an increasing number of British motorists are being caught speeding in France.

Over the Easter weekend, 110 UK motorists caught speeding on the A26 south of Calais incurred on the spot fines while seven Brits detected driving substantially in excess of the limit and two drink drivers were arrested and bailed to appear in court. According to reports, these drivers also had their licences and cars confiscated until their hearings!

In the future, offending drivers may meet even more serious deterrents if proposed new legislation is adopted by the British Government.

French authorities claim that ten per cent of all motoring offences are committed by foreigners and are desperate to bring down the high levels of road fatalities and injuries - double those in the UK. While serious offenders are prosecuted through the courts, the majority of misdemeanours - like speeding - are dealt with by on the spot fines of up to £200.

But now the French want to get even tougher on British drivers who speed and flout the law and have approached the UK Government and other European neighbours to sign up to a convention which would extend the powers of punishment to include penalty points and potential disqualification when motorists return home.

The Home Office is thought to be considering the plans sympathetically having already agreed to an Act stipulating that a British driver disqualified in a European country should also lose their licence here.

It’s not just drivers in France who should exercise caution on the roads this year either. In Spain, from July, that age-old motoring chivalry - warning on coming drivers of the presence of police ahead - could leave UK visitors in hot water too as it becomes an offence to do so then. It will also become compulsory to have a reflective vest in the car for use in emergencies.

Radar Detectors

The ban on speed detection devices, widespread throughout mainland Europe, also extends to Spain from the summer when the installation and use of a radar detector becomes an offence.

Drivers with speed detection devices fitted to their cars can face a jail sentence, a driving ban, having their vehicle confiscated or paying a huge fine if they take them to many parts of Europe.

While the radar and laser detectors, which warn motorists of speed enforcement equipment in the vicinity, have been legal to own and use in the UK since 1999, many other European countries ban them and impose stringent sentences for having them fitted in the vehicle – even when they are not operational.

Punishment for carrying or using such a device can vary from possible imprisonment in Luxembourg and the Republic of Ireland, to the loss of licence and car and a fine of up to £1000 in France.

• Definitive information on the legality/illegality of using the devices in individual European and Scandinavian countries is difficult to establish but France, Belgium, Greece, Austria, Turkey, Switzerland, Luxembourg, Ireland, and Norway all operate bans and will shortly be joined by Spain. 
• The harshest potential punishment is levied in Luxembourg where a custodial sentence of between eight days and three years is possible. The Republic of Ireland also deals harshly with offenders and a six month prison sentence is possible.
• France, the country most likely to be visited by Brits, can deprive you of your car, licence and up to 1500 Euros if you are caught with a speed detection device.
• Speed detection devices were illegal in the UK until 1999 when a decision by the High Court reversed the ruling, although the Government is proposing to make secondary legislation to ban their installation and use once again – creating an offence which would attract a maximum fine of £1000 and six penalty points.
• Users tend to be high mileage drivers – typically business drivers who travel in excess of 22,000 miles a year, have high annual incomes, who live in rural or semi-rural areas and drive high performance vehicles.
• 60 per cent of those who use speed detection devices say that they have become safer drivers since purchasing detectors and three quarters indicate that they are more aware of speed limits in the areas in which they are driving.

[DLR]

As a recent owner of Snooper GPS i have to say that i'm even more aware of the speed limits , not only that it's also programed to advise when approaching schools, surely this can't be a bad thing, just increase the speed limit on the motorway, improve lane discipline and "keep that gap"

[nonegreen]

How much will it cost the French to kill of their tourist industry?

Unlike crap Britain, when the local nutter like Brustrom starts costing the French millions in lost revenue he will be out on his arse double quick. The RAC is utter crap and has lost several hundred punds of revenue this year due to this kind of compliant silliness.

[Graham]

Im sure there was some stats somewhere ( ok i know lies dam lines and stats)


showing that accident black spot<sic> detector users were considerable less likley to have an accident...


I find the camera db in my car very usefull, when travelling in inknown areas trying to work out where to go , its easy to creep over the limit and this thing warns me and i slow down... isnt that the whole idea of the cameras??? slow people down... oh sorry i forgot no its to raise cash...

G

[nisman]

Surely every car has a "speed detection device". It's the big dial right in front of you.

All of this is going to take some of the fun out of Le Mans. Our convoy only picked up one €90 ticket last year.

[neil.b]

Can somone "in the know" comment on this story, please.

Due to do Eurohoon in September (France, Germany, Switzerland) and have an Origin B2 in the car. These days, as my speedo has a mind of its own, I actually rely on the Origin to tell me the correct speed I'm travelling at.

If I remove the laser detector part then surely its nothing more than a (expensive) speedo? Do Origins have Europe-wide fixed cameras in the database? Would I be better leaving the Origin at home?

[streaky]

neil.b said:

Can somone "in the know" comment on this story, please. Due to do Eurohoon in September (France, Germany, Switzerland) and have an Origin B2 in the car. These days, as my speedo has a mind of its own, I actually rely on the Origin to tell me the correct speed I'm travelling at. If I remove the laser detector part then surely its nothing more than a (expensive) speedo? Do Origins have Europe-wide fixed cameras in the database? Would I be better leaving the Origin at home?

You would be well advised to leave it at home. Apparently, just having one in the car (even in the boot) can get you fined in France - Streaky

[dazren]

My garage door opener is being ripped out for the eurohoon trip and refitted on my return. Wouldn't want it being confused with anything that was illegal.

DAZ

[streaky]

"..., 110 UK motorists caught speeding on the A26 south of Calais incurred on the spot fines while seven Brits detected driving substantially in excess of the limit and two drink drivers were arrested and bailed to appear in court. According to reports, these drivers also had their licences and cars confiscated until their hearings!

In the future, offending drivers may meet even more serious deterrents if proposed new legislation is adopted by the British Government."

Of course, if a foreigner commits an offence over here ... little is likely to be done about it. All they need to do is claim to speak no English ... or be an asylum-seeking, one-legged, roof tiler.

Why don't they just make it illegal to be British, then they can lock us all up, seize all our assets, put our families in the workhouse ... . Oh, what the h3ll, just shoot us all!

Streaky

[andykent]

>>>>>>>Speed detection devices were illegal in the UK until 1999 when a decision by the High Court reversed the ruling, although the Government is proposing to make secondary legislation to ban their installation and use once again – creating an offence which would attract a maximum fine of £1000 and six penalty points.<<<<<<<

Did anyone else pick up on this. I was planing on getting a B2, but is the UK Gov about to try and outlaw radar detectors again ??


APK.

[tonyout]

andykent said:

>>>>>>>Speed detection devices were illegal in the UK until 1999 when a decision by the High Court reversed the ruling, although the Government is proposing to make secondary legislation to ban their installation and use once again – creating an offence which would attract a maximum fine of £1000 and six penalty points.<<<<<<< Did anyone else pick up on this. I was planing on getting a B2, but is the UK Gov about to try and outlaw radar detectors again ?? APK.

Is this a secret admission that they are not quite as illegal as the government would like us to think they are?

[mjc]

oh err... good thing I read this!
I'm getting (or was going to) a B2 fitted but am taking the car to norway shortly after!!

Have to take it out before I do the crossing...

[justinp]

RAC Foundation said:

like speeding - are dealt with by on the spot fines of up to £200.

What about all the guys that got fined going to Lemans last year, many got 750 euro on the spot fines, was this legal?

Cheers

JustinP

>> Edited by justinp on Tuesday 4th May 14:44

[neil.b]

A standard Origin B2 is not a radar detector. It comes with a laser detector as standard and the ABILITY to fit a radar detector but this is an extra add on (which last time I checked they still weren't for sale on their web site).

So, technically, the B2 is just a GPS receiver (if you take of the laser detector) - surely they can't do you for that?

[mjc]

good point Neil..

[carl_w]

I have a PDA running Tomtom that I use for navigation purposes. It "happens" to also have a speed camera database as an overlay file.

Where would the UK or French laws stand on that? If I turn off the overlay file, am I now legal?

Maybe I should just change the icon, so they look like Little Chefs instead of speed cameras

>> Edited by carl_w on Tuesday 4th May 16:26

[zumbruk]

The problem is ... do you really want to argue the point with a stroppy Gendarme who has mysteriously lost the power to speak English and who holds all the cards? What is the French for "Global Positioning System", anyway?

Some years ago, I was on a coach tour of the champagne region when we got stopped by les flic. An altercation with the French guide ensued, the flics got given a case of orange juice and retired semi-hurt. The guide said that they had said that the coach was speeding and that since there was a large sign in the window saying "Sunday Times Wine Club Champagne Tour", there was a 'frig full of nice cold champagne on board & it was a hot day and they were thirsty, non?

Actually, she played a blinder, 'cos the shampoo was under the orange juice.

(Recommended trip, BTW. Never have I been so pissed for so long.)

[granville]

They just can't leave alone can they?

There is simply no traffic through vast tranches of the divine French countryside and being able to make decent progress one of life's last remaining, sweet automotive tonics.

The French have always had a problem with speed detectors but their apparently laudable, laissez-faire approach to inter-provincial traffic policing something I've always admired.

I genuinely hope that such rumours are just that and that in this regard they do what in other areas characterises them, i.e. what the bloody hell they want and here, I mean that to imply sod all in viz a vis speed control.

[dazren]

The problem is this new anti car zealot Sartovsky (sp?), the french minister calling the shots. Hwe is trying to reach the same EEC stats that the UK government used as an excuse to set up scamera partnerships.

Of course having driven the Periphique during rush hour, persecuting Brits for making progress along sparsely trafficed stretches of autoroutes has feck all to do with saving lives and improving their road KSI statistics, and everything to do with Revenue.

I'd also like to know where the our government gets off giving a foreign police force the the right to ban me from driving in the UK. WTF did my ancestors fight to defend this country if this apologist scum dictatorship in whitehall is just going to give away all of our freedoms.

DAZ

>> Edited by dazren on Tuesday 4th May 17:38

[carl_w]

zumbruk said:

The problem is ... do you really want to argue the point with a stroppy Gendarme who has mysteriously lost the power to speak English and who holds all the cards? What is the French for "Global Positioning System", anyway?

Le Systeme Positione Globale I reckon

But this is the point. Because of the stroppy Gendarmes, should I avoid using my GPS navigation entirely? Makes it a bit pointless buying the TomTom European maps...

[mybrainhurts]

neil.b said:

Can somone "in the know" comment on this story, please......... .........If I remove the laser detector part then surely its nothing more than a (expensive) speedo? Do Origins have Europe-wide fixed cameras in the database? Would I be better leaving the Origin at home?

A Calais cop made a Brit destroy his Geodesy on the spot a few years ago............