Monday 17th November 2003

Two Weeks to Go

30 quid fine if you're seen holding a mobile whilst driving

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Road Safety Minister David Jamieson today reminded motorists that 2 weeks from now they face a £30 fine if caught holding a mobile phone and driving.

The message coincides with a new advertising campaign to remind motorists of the new offence to hold a mobile phone. National radio adverts reminding people of the imminent ban start today.

The new offence will take effect from 1 December 2003. Initially offenders will be subject to a £30 fixed penalty fine, which can be increased to a maximum of £1000 if the matter goes to court (£2,500 for drivers of vans, lorries, buses and coaches).

Research has shown that you are four times more likely to have an accident if you drive and use a mobile phone.

The Government is planning to legislate when a suitable opportunity arises to make it an endorseable offence, so that drivers will get three points on their licence each time they are caught holding a phone. The fixed penalty fine would then increase to £60.

All they need now is some police on the roads to enforce it...

[jvaughan]

I think the government needs to review the penalty points scheme ...
Thumbs up though for on the spot fines

[streaky]

Thought the Beeb did a good job this morning of not over-egging the requirements. That is until the interview with the lady who sadly lost her daughter in an accident involving a driver using a cellular telephone. Apparently the driver was dialing at the time ... and there is nothing in the new regulations to stop this (provided the 'phone is not held at the time)!

Secondly, I wonder how many RTAs (involving KSI or not) have been caused by drivers:

* fiddling with the radio/CD/cassette/8-track;

* lighting/stubbing out a cigarette;

* window-shopping;

* shaving/putting on make-up (both sexes);

* talking to the passenger;

* sorting out the children fighting/being sick on the back seat;

* reading a map/newspaper/documents for meeting;

* working out where the controls are on an unfamiliar car;
* etc.

Streaky

PS - I agree with the need to 'manage' cellular telephone use whilst driving, but - once again - this government's 'knee-jerk' reaction has produced 'bad law' - S

[tonyhetherington]

Where does the law stand regarding the use of CB radios ? I dont mean it in a dig against BiB's, but because my uncle uses a hand held CB radio jobby (like alot of lorry drivers do I think), - does that have the same affect ?!

[fish]

CB's aren't included, not effected.

[Don]

I hate having someone behind me holding a phone to their ear - you just know they're not in full control of their car.

But didn't the Beeb mention something about it being illegal to use the phone when the car was stationary (if the engine is on). So what am I supposed to do in winter? Freeze whilst I sit in the layby making calls?

I think this is a genuine problem. But I think as a law - its either poorly drafted or poorly understood. There again - with the technical abilities of BBC journalists its likely most of the "facts" are being quoted utterly out of context...

[K9VYN]

if CB type radios are excluded, does that not negate HGV drivers, taxi drivers, police and other emergency service drivers etc from ever committing an offence? and if so, surely this amounts to a prejudice against car drivers or vehicles not fitted with a CB radio (perhaps this is the way ahead)? a distration is a distraction is a distraction as stated above.. are mobiles any more disruptive?

this is just as bas as SPECS and Truvelo cameras that can only identify vehicles with front number plates thus allowing motorcyclists to escape speeding convictions - prejudice against the motorist again! while i don't suspect its an easy problem to legislate, i suspect its only going to be successful as a revenue generator.

also, i have bluetooth hands free, even if i fix my phone to the dash.. i can use voice dialling, but that still doesn't mean my concentration on the road will be 100% during a conversation! i don't think any amount of legislation can cater for driving with or without due care and attention.

[streaky]

K9VYN said:

... also, i have bluetooth hands free, even if i fix my phone to the dash.. i can use voice dialling, ...

But dialing with one (or more fingers) is not prohibited ... so long as the 'phone is not held at the time. It doesn't even prevent texting!

See: www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=64185&f=10&h=0&hw=mobile+phone

Streaky

Edited as I intended to say it "doesn't prevent texting", but the "n't" didn't get all the way from my brain to my finger-tips - S

>> Edited by streaky on Sunday 23 November 14:08

[UK952]

I don't condone driving with a handheld phone in most situations but, how is a mobile telephone not a 2 way radio? I have used radios in the past that you dial like a phone so whats the difference?
Tony

[Monster1]

This legislation has taken a long time to come in and I welcome it.

Using a mobile phone, dialling, speaking or texting has been a cause of many a collision, and as the popularity of mobile phones has risen so has collisions involving the use of them.

The legislation is not an attack against motorists.

There has always been an offence to use a mobile phone whilst driving; not in proper control, and using one whilst conducting a particular manoeuvre e.g. cornering can be without due care.

This legislation just clarifies the offence.

There are other distractions which have already been mentioned e.g., reading maps, drinking, eating, even talking to passengers and these are also covered by the ‘not in proper control offence’.

Both hands off the steering wheel, turning around to check the children on the back seat, and bending down to pick something up off the floor are all covered by driving without due care.

With regards to the legislation not covering CB radios etc that is correct, however if the driver is using a CB radio or similar this could still be covered by the above offences; proper control, WDC depending on what manoeuvre the driver was doing. This also applies to Police.

Soon the Police are having a new national radio system, some already have. This is covered by the mobile phone legislation as they contain the ability to make phone calls. Each Police vehicle will be fitted with a ‘hands free’ kit.

Police drivers, by the nature of the job, have to communicate with the control room and other officers. If the vehicle has a passenger this is done by them, however sometimes they are single crewed. In these circumstances the Officers must make a personal decision whether or not to transmit. If the driver makes a call whilst on an emergency call they are covered by a clause to make emergency calls in the act.

[streaky]

Monster1 said:

... Using a mobile phone, dialling, speaking or texting has been a cause of many a collision, and as the popularity of mobile phones has risen so has collisions involving the use of them.

The regulation only makes it an offence to hold the 'phone - using it, particularly dialing and texting (reading and writing) are not specifically barred by the regulation. The oft quoted cases of accidents caused (and sometimes resulting in KSI) generally refer to 'dialing' or 'texting' (including BTW pedestrians struck by motor vehicles).

Monster1 said:

... The legislation is not an attack against motorists.

So why will pedestrians still be allowed to walk out in front of traffic with their heads down dialing or texting (one killed locally this year and I've seen three idiots do it already this week)?

Monster1 said:

... There has always been an offence to use a mobile phone whilst driving; not in proper control, and using one whilst conducting a particular manoeuvre e.g. cornering can be without due care.

So why is additional regulation needed? You welcome this new law, yet you say it is already an offence to use a mobile 'phone whilst driving.

Monster1 said:

... This legislation just clarifies the offence.

No it doesn't. It describes a specific case of holding the 'phone whilst using it. It 'clarifies' the definition of the device regulated.

Monster1 said:

... If the driver makes a call whilst on an emergency call they are covered by a clause to make emergency calls in the act.

If you refer to the exception : "(5) A person does not contravene a provision of this regulation if, at the time of the alleged contravention -
(a) he is using the telephone or other device to call the police, fire, ambulance or other emergency service on 112 or 999;
(b) he is acting in response to a genuine emergency; and
(c) it is unsafe or impracticable for him to cease driving in order to make the call ... ." I suggest that the call has to be made "in response to an emergency" not as a consequence of responding to an emergency - eg. calling to say you'll be late for court is, I submit, not an emergency covered by the exception.

Streaky

PS - for the benefit of jeffryarcher, the authority I refer to and quote from is the text of the regulation as provided here : www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=64185&f=10&h=0 - S

>> Edited by streaky on Sunday 23 November 14:09

[hongkongfooi]

I am a serving police officer and agree whole heartedly with the new legislation, although we have been giving tickets out for the offence 'not in proper control of the vehicle' for a while anyway, for others interest i will only issue a ticket if I see people go around junctions/roundabouts or anything else that does not constitute a straight ahead drive which most of my immediate colleagues follow also, fair discretion i feel.
I also deal with this matter when possible but that is difficult sometimes for many reasons i won't bore you with.
As a last entry i have attended just as many accidents as a result of mobile phone usage as any other if not more........ god, all it takes is not answer it, pull over and ring back!!!
I will stop ranting now!!

[gh0st]

K9VYN said:

this is just as bas as SPECS and Truvelo cameras that can only identify vehicles with front number plates thus allowing motorcyclists to escape speeding convictions - prejudice against the motorist again! .

erm no... we bikers are motorists as well you know... we still pay tax / fuel and everything else charges but we happen to take up about 70% less roadspace and I have heard rumours of rear facing SPECS cameras so we are not all excluded.

[sgt^roc]

a good law but I wonder if the plods are going to be out in force to enforce it, obviously chief plod brunstrom will have his merry band of revenue collectors out. say whats happened to his dauhter for speeding?

[sb-1]

[quote=Don]I hate having someone behind me holding a phone to their ear - you just know they're not in full control of their car.

But didn't the Beeb mention something about it being illegal to use the phone when the car was stationary (if the engine is on).

***According to ROSPA its is defined as driving 'If you are stationary with the engine running'....***
Steve

>> Edited by sb-1 on Monday 24th November 18:29

[bluepolarbear]

sb-1 said:

But didn't the Beeb mention something about it being illegal to use the phone when the car was stationary (if the engine is on).

Correct, the car needs to be parked with the engine off.

streaky said:

The regulation only makes it an offence to hold the 'phone - using it, particularly dialing and texting (reading and writing) are not specifically barred by the regulation.

Most people agree that case law will decide the finer points however, IMHO ANY use of the phone is an offence. The actual offence is in section 1 which is "using a hand held mobile telephone". In Section 6 it defines what hand held means. I would suggest that if a device requires you to hold it to make a call any use of that device is an offence regardless if that particular use requires you to hold it

Monster1 said:

Soon the Police are having a new national radio system, some already have. This is covered by the mobile phone legislation as they contain the ability to make phone calls. Each Police vehicle will be fitted with a ‘hands free’ kit.

The new Airwave system is not covered by the new law. Section 6 defines what devices are covered and part of the defination includes the frequency which the device uses to communicate. The only frequencies covered are those in use by the 5 mobile phone operators. All other radio systems eg CB / PMR / Airwave are excluded. Also "one way" communications systems are also excluded which includes GPS and Pagers