Lucy Letby Guilty
Discussion
I'm assuming that the media and Politicians will now carry out a 24/7 assassination campaign against the nursing profession, tell the public not to approach nurses, demand their private phones be handed over for examination, call for root and branch reform of nursing and demand an enquiry that assumes all nurses are evil murderers.
That's how it works right? Or is that just reserved for Police Officers?
That's how it works right? Or is that just reserved for Police Officers?
Donbot said:
Cyberprog said:
Donbot said:
Likely a whole life order.
Wouldn't surprise me, but I hope she gets some mental help also because that sort of thing is seriously awful.But, more importantly, because understanding her psyche and what drove her to do those terrible things might help us to spot the signs earlier and and prevent this happening again.
deckster said:
Because helping damaged people is the right thing to do.
But, more importantly, because understanding her psyche and what drove her to do those terrible things might help us to spot the signs earlier and and prevent this happening again.
She will be evaluated anyway. Maybe helping Harold Shipman would have been the right thing to do as well. I think some people don't deserve help.But, more importantly, because understanding her psyche and what drove her to do those terrible things might help us to spot the signs earlier and and prevent this happening again.
What I found most troubling was that concerns were raised by consultants about 6 months after she first started working in the ITU with babies.
For me this raises two thoughts that possibly bare expansion and further investigation, Firstly It shouldn't have been so problematic to tack a new starter as it became apparent it was. Secondly, the psychological process whereby she felt able or compelled to act in this way so fresh to the profession.
For me this raises two thoughts that possibly bare expansion and further investigation, Firstly It shouldn't have been so problematic to tack a new starter as it became apparent it was. Secondly, the psychological process whereby she felt able or compelled to act in this way so fresh to the profession.
Vsix and Vtec said:
What I found most troubling was that concerns were raised by consultants about 6 months after she first started working in the ITU with babies.
For me this raises two thoughts that possibly bare expansion and further investigation, Firstly It shouldn't have been so problematic to tack a new starter as it became apparent it was. Secondly, the psychological process whereby she felt able or compelled to act in this way so fresh to the profession.
I'm sure that "lessons will be learnt" For me this raises two thoughts that possibly bare expansion and further investigation, Firstly It shouldn't have been so problematic to tack a new starter as it became apparent it was. Secondly, the psychological process whereby she felt able or compelled to act in this way so fresh to the profession.
To me the worst part is the "you'll never know" aspect of it. She has been found guilty but the questions that this has raised are pretty big.
Did she actually do it or is this going to be a big scandal in a few years time and she's been stitched up?
If she did it, why ?
Sure, we have seen a guilty verdict but there are many questions.
Has she ever admitted it or is she still claiming innocence ?
Did she actually do it or is this going to be a big scandal in a few years time and she's been stitched up?
If she did it, why ?
Sure, we have seen a guilty verdict but there are many questions.
Has she ever admitted it or is she still claiming innocence ?
CoolHands said:
why was the previous thread binned?Amazing it took so long, the trial was never ending. Her parents clearly believe she is innocent, must be so hard to take.
Edited by CoolHands on Friday 18th August 13:55
unrepentant said:
Heard about this case this morning, absolutely horrific. She will presumably spend the rest of her life in Broadmoor?
Unlikely to be broadmoor, but most likely she will be graded Cat A to start off with and then bubbled down. She is probably at HM Prison New Hall currently based off a quick google, and may remain there.t'Independant says HMP Low Newton.
That said, her prognosis will be poor on the wings due to the nature of her crimes, and she may find herself having to live in segregation.
I get why people think prison should be awful, and why we should lock people up and throw away the key, it's a very human eye-for-a-eye kind of reaction, but in the long run nobody wins.
I read she did not want to listen to the final verdicts -either in person, or via videolink.
Yet the law allows the judge to require a suspect to attend for certain crimes. The judge has not disclosed the reason she's given not to attend, though it would need to be pretty damn convincing.
I can see how the attempted murders were harder to prove, but I did also notice the suspect trying to play the "underfunded NHS" card in her defence.
I'm glad this has been resolved for the families concerned, especially as they lost a juror near the end.
There's also a story going round that prison can be a death sentence anyway. Can't actually find it now but I'm sure this grain article covers the key points https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/oct...
Not going to lose any sleep in this case
Yet the law allows the judge to require a suspect to attend for certain crimes. The judge has not disclosed the reason she's given not to attend, though it would need to be pretty damn convincing.
I can see how the attempted murders were harder to prove, but I did also notice the suspect trying to play the "underfunded NHS" card in her defence.
I'm glad this has been resolved for the families concerned, especially as they lost a juror near the end.
There's also a story going round that prison can be a death sentence anyway. Can't actually find it now but I'm sure this grain article covers the key points https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/oct...
Not going to lose any sleep in this case
Gecko1978 said:
Doubt it she was guilty of murder there was never a question raised about her being of not sound mind the verdict implies she is bad not mad.
Her mental state wouldn't have been raised, given that she denied the charges entirely. It doesn't follow it wasn't an issue."I didn't do it, but if I did it was all because of my unsound mind" isn't a line of defence any lawyer would recommend. Also known as riding two horses, or the Stefan Kiszko defence, after a man whose defence lawyers used it with spectacular success.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Lesley_M...
Strangest murder case ever really, in terms of the gravity of the crimes vs lack of direct evidence, clear motive or any previous examples of psychopathy.
With Beverly Allit, I remember her boyfriend giving interviews after the trial indicating how nutty she was. Nothing remotely like this here.
With Beverly Allit, I remember her boyfriend giving interviews after the trial indicating how nutty she was. Nothing remotely like this here.
Vsix and Vtec said:
What I found most troubling was that concerns were raised by consultants about 6 months after she first started working in the ITU with babies.
For me this raises two thoughts that possibly bare expansion and further investigation, Firstly It shouldn't have been so problematic to tack a new starter as it became apparent it was. Secondly, the psychological process whereby she felt able or compelled to act in this way so fresh to the profession.
I've posted this before and been shouted down. NHS management is not fit for purpose.For me this raises two thoughts that possibly bare expansion and further investigation, Firstly It shouldn't have been so problematic to tack a new starter as it became apparent it was. Secondly, the psychological process whereby she felt able or compelled to act in this way so fresh to the profession.
Of course that's a generalisation. Of course there are some excellent managers but the majority are not fit to hold their positions and it is exacerbated by a bullying, dishonest and defensive culture. Client confidentiality prevents me stating all the things I have seen. It makes me sick to my stomach. I have written to Chief Executives and MPs with evidence of misconduct and it is brushed aside. Arrangements with the press mean that criticisms are suppressed.
Things only enter the public domain when the incompetence, dishonesty and self interest is simply overwhelmed by the scale and nature of the problems. These cases are not isolated - they are the tip of an iceberg. The CQC is equally unfit for purpose.
Nothing will change. It is too big, too political and too protected to be subjected to the kind of root and branch restructuring that is the only hope of returning to competence and professionalism. It will never happen.
SmoothCriminal said:
What a sick individual, also the cover up is sickening.
If this isn't a whole life order after Wayne couzsins (sp) received one for one murder then there's seriously something wrong with the legal system.
It was more than just one murder though. Kidnap, rape, murder...using his police status to commit the offences. If this isn't a whole life order after Wayne couzsins (sp) received one for one murder then there's seriously something wrong with the legal system.
I'm interested in the reasons why she was found jot guilty on some or undecided. Although to be fair it won't make a difference to her sentence but would make a huge difference to the families.
Unreal said:
I've posted this before and been shouted down. NHS management is not fit for purpose.
Of course that's a generalisation. Of course there are some excellent managers but the majority are not fit to hold their positions and it is exacerbated by a bullying, dishonest and defensive culture. Client confidentiality prevents me stating all the things I have seen. It makes me sick to my stomach. I have written to Chief Executives and MPs with evidence of misconduct and it is brushed aside. Arrangements with the press mean that criticisms are suppressed.
Things only enter the public domain when the incompetence, dishonesty and self interest is simply overwhelmed by the scale and nature of the problems. These cases are not isolated - they are the tip of an iceberg. The CQC is equally unfit for purpose.
Nothing will change. It is too big, too political and too protected to be subjected to the kind of root and branch restructuring that is the only hope of returning to competence and professionalism. It will never happen.
Watch out, that's "Our NHS" you're daring to criticize there ! Maybe if it ever goes back to being "The" NHS in political debate, there might be a chance of looking properly at the failings.Of course that's a generalisation. Of course there are some excellent managers but the majority are not fit to hold their positions and it is exacerbated by a bullying, dishonest and defensive culture. Client confidentiality prevents me stating all the things I have seen. It makes me sick to my stomach. I have written to Chief Executives and MPs with evidence of misconduct and it is brushed aside. Arrangements with the press mean that criticisms are suppressed.
Things only enter the public domain when the incompetence, dishonesty and self interest is simply overwhelmed by the scale and nature of the problems. These cases are not isolated - they are the tip of an iceberg. The CQC is equally unfit for purpose.
Nothing will change. It is too big, too political and too protected to be subjected to the kind of root and branch restructuring that is the only hope of returning to competence and professionalism. It will never happen.
Hammersia said:
Strangest murder case ever really, in terms of the gravity of the crimes vs lack of direct evidence, clear motive or any previous examples of psychopathy.
With Beverly Allit, I remember her boyfriend giving interviews after the trial indicating how nutty she was. Nothing remotely like this here.
I think I read on here that an investigative journalist has already produced a lengthy analysis of why the conviction might be unsafe.With Beverly Allit, I remember her boyfriend giving interviews after the trial indicating how nutty she was. Nothing remotely like this here.
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