Lucy Letby Guilty

Author
Discussion

PRO 5T

4,041 posts

26 months

Wednesday 31st January
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It was difficult to understand exactly how she was going to appeal when her defence (apart from the bizarre inclusion of a local plumber) amounted to nothing more than “I didn’t do it your honour”.

I still think there’s a possibility of a massive miscarriage of justice on this but circumstantial evidence is still evidence and “I don’t do it your honour” probably wasn’t going to cut it.

On the balance of probabilities Lucy Letby probably did murder, harm and attempt to do harm to all those poor children but there’s still an uncomfortable doubt when saying someone is probably a child serial killer so lock them up forever.

Tony1963

4,856 posts

163 months

Wednesday 31st January
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It beats state sponsored murder.

iDrive

418 posts

114 months

Wednesday 31st January
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PRO 5T said:
...On the balance of probabilities Lucy Letby probably did murder...
Beyond reasonable doubt

PRO 5T

4,041 posts

26 months

Wednesday 31st January
quotequote all
iDrive said:
PRO 5T said:
...On the balance of probabilities Lucy Letby probably did murder...
Beyond reasonable doubt
Indeed. Obviously there were reasonable doubts on some of the charges and not on others, after over 100 hours of deliberation resulted in the majority guilty verdicts of some charges. It took 76 hours of deliberations just to find her guilty of the first charge, following that over 24 hours of deliberations followed before more guilty charges were found.

Source;
https://news.sky.com/story/inside-courtroom-seven-...

agtlaw

6,756 posts

207 months

Wednesday 31st January
quotequote all
PRO 5T said:
Indeed. Obviously there were reasonable doubts on some of the charges and not on others, after over 100 hours of deliberation resulted in the majority guilty verdicts of some charges. It took 76 hours of deliberations just to find her guilty of the first charge, following that over 24 hours of deliberations followed before more guilty charges were found.

Source;
https://news.sky.com/story/inside-courtroom-seven-...
A majority verdict simply means that 10 or more jurors were sure of guilt on that particular count. Not sure is not guilty.

Sheepshanks

32,969 posts

120 months

Wednesday 31st January
quotequote all
PRO 5T said:
iDrive said:
PRO 5T said:
...On the balance of probabilities Lucy Letby probably did murder...
Beyond reasonable doubt
Indeed. Obviously there were reasonable doubts on some of the charges and not on others, after over 100 hours of deliberation resulted in the majority guilty verdicts of some charges. It took 76 hours of deliberations just to find her guilty of the first charge, following that over 24 hours of deliberations followed before more guilty charges were found.

Source;
https://news.sky.com/story/inside-courtroom-seven-...
It's been gone over in the thread many times already.

I live in the area covered by the hospital. Our children and grandchildren were born there. I don't think any of the births were completely uneventful, and one of the grandchildren spent time in intensive care around the time Letby was there.

We know people who work at the hospital too. I think the general feeling is still disbelief - she may well have done it, but she's been convicted because there's no other explanation for many of the deaths. It didn't help her that she came across as a bit weird.


Hammersia

1,564 posts

16 months

Wednesday 31st January
quotequote all
Haven't changed my view - appalling miscarriage of justice.

No forensic or eyewitness evidence, no clear motive, hospital authorities botching investigations or covering up, use of highly selective statistics, jurors under enormous pressure to account, etc etc

PRO 5T

4,041 posts

26 months

Wednesday 31st January
quotequote all
Sheepshanks said:
It's been gone over in the thread many times already.

I live in the area covered by the hospital. Our children and grandchildren were born there. I don't think any of the births were completely uneventful, and one of the grandchildren spent time in intensive care around the time Letby was there.

We know people who work at the hospital too. I think the general feeling is still disbelief - she may well have done it, but she's been convicted because there's no other explanation for many of the deaths. It didn't help her that she came across as a bit weird.
It has been gone over and around and round, and yes it is a bit pointless discussing it further on PH but then so are a lot of things. The bit in bold though...

In todays works of forensics, data collection, CCTV and science it came down to that and some incredible coincidences. When you listened to the podcast that followed the trial almost daily a lot of the court watchers came up with the same conclusion- "there was no other compelling explanation and she didn't really help herself with her behaviour/actions"


Hammersia

1,564 posts

16 months

Wednesday 31st January
quotequote all
PRO 5T said:
Sheepshanks said:
It's been gone over in the thread many times already.

I live in the area covered by the hospital. Our children and grandchildren were born there. I don't think any of the births were completely uneventful, and one of the grandchildren spent time in intensive care around the time Letby was there.

We know people who work at the hospital too. I think the general feeling is still disbelief - she may well have done it, but she's been convicted because there's no other explanation for many of the deaths. It didn't help her that she came across as a bit weird.
It has been gone over and around and round, and yes it is a bit pointless discussing it further on PH but then so are a lot of things. The bit in bold though...

In todays works of forensics, data collection, CCTV and science it came down to that and some incredible coincidences. When you listened to the podcast that followed the trial almost daily a lot of the court watchers came up with the same conclusion- "there was no other compelling explanation and she didn't really help herself with her behaviour/actions"
Which all could have been settled without a doubt years ago if the hospital had investigated properly.

Then Chief Exec Tony Chambers has of course moved on to other NHS directorship roles.

hidetheelephants

24,923 posts

194 months

Wednesday 31st January
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Hammersia said:
Then Chief Exec Tony Chambers has of course moved on to other NHS directorship roles.
Trebles all round! Total failure of management culture rewarded with career advancement yet again.

Dog Star

16,168 posts

169 months

Wednesday 31st January
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Hammersia said:
Haven't changed my view - appalling miscarriage of justice.

No forensic or eyewitness evidence, no clear motive, hospital authorities botching investigations or covering up, use of highly selective statistics, jurors under enormous pressure to account, etc etc
+1

agtlaw

6,756 posts

207 months

Wednesday 31st January
quotequote all
Hammersia said:
Haven't changed my view - appalling miscarriage of justice.

No forensic or eyewitness evidence, no clear motive, hospital authorities botching investigations or covering up, use of highly selective statistics, jurors under enormous pressure to account, etc etc
Without the confession evidence, I might have had similar thoughts.

carinaman

21,370 posts

173 months

Wednesday 31st January
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A colleague that's into True Crime is enjoying the Daily Mail podcasts on it. I think they were telling me about Baby E yesterday.

Sheepshanks

32,969 posts

120 months

Wednesday 31st January
quotequote all
agtlaw said:
Without the confession evidence, I might have had similar thoughts.
What's worrying (for the wider popuation) is that one of my daughters, who works in the NHS and is a similar age to Letby, thought her notes etc weren't unusual amongst young women.


PinkHouse

917 posts

58 months

Wednesday 31st January
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Sheepshanks said:
agtlaw said:
Without the confession evidence, I might have had similar thoughts.
What's worrying (for the wider popuation) is that one of my daughters, who works in the NHS and is a similar age to Letby, thought her notes etc weren't unusual amongst young women.
You're painting a large swathe of young women in the NHS with extreme views just to justify Lucy's terrifying notes. It's definitely normal to go through periods of self-doubt and low confidence in jobs but it's far from usual to confess to killing babies

Flumpo

3,827 posts

74 months

Wednesday 31st January
quotequote all
PinkHouse said:
Sheepshanks said:
agtlaw said:
Without the confession evidence, I might have had similar thoughts.
What's worrying (for the wider popuation) is that one of my daughters, who works in the NHS and is a similar age to Letby, thought her notes etc weren't unusual amongst young women.
You're painting a large swathe of young women in the NHS with extreme views just to justify Lucy's terrifying notes. It's definitely normal to go through periods of self-doubt and low confidence in jobs but it's far from usual to confess to killing babies
Weren’t those notes also written on confidential documents that shouldn’t have left the hospital, let alone be kept under someone bed?

Hammersia

1,564 posts

16 months

Wednesday 31st January
quotequote all
PinkHouse said:
Sheepshanks said:
agtlaw said:
Without the confession evidence, I might have had similar thoughts.
What's worrying (for the wider popuation) is that one of my daughters, who works in the NHS and is a similar age to Letby, thought her notes etc weren't unusual amongst young women.
You're painting a large swathe of young women in the NHS with extreme views just to justify Lucy's terrifying notes. It's definitely normal to go through periods of self-doubt and low confidence in jobs but it's far from usual to confess to killing babies
Her notes were mumbo jumbo open to all sorts of interpretations. If you didn't know what she was accused of you wouldn't have been able to make anything out from the notes.

Sheepshanks

32,969 posts

120 months

Wednesday 31st January
quotequote all
PinkHouse said:
Sheepshanks said:
agtlaw said:
Without the confession evidence, I might have had similar thoughts.
What's worrying (for the wider popuation) is that one of my daughters, who works in the NHS and is a similar age to Letby, thought her notes etc weren't unusual amongst young women.
You're painting a large swathe of young women in the NHS with extreme views just to justify Lucy's terrifying notes. It's definitely normal to go through periods of self-doubt and low confidence in jobs but it's far from usual to confess to killing babies
No, young women in general, not in the NHS. And obviously there's degrees of it - Letby's writings were quite extreme, but (so I'm told) by no means unique.

agtlaw

6,756 posts

207 months

Wednesday 31st January
quotequote all
Hammersia said:
Her notes were mumbo jumbo open to all sorts of interpretations. If you didn't know what she was accused of you wouldn't have been able to make anything out from the notes.
"I killed them on purpose because I'm not good enough to care for them and I am a horrible evil person ... I am evil. I did this."



Flumpo

3,827 posts

74 months

Wednesday 31st January
quotequote all
agtlaw said:
Hammersia said:
Her notes were mumbo jumbo open to all sorts of interpretations. If you didn't know what she was accused of you wouldn't have been able to make anything out from the notes.
"I killed them on purpose because I'm not good enough to care for them and I am a horrible evil person ... I am evil. I did this."


Yeah, but apart from that one…