RE: Speed limit review hides sinister purpose
Thursday 10th August 2006
The start of satellite control?The real reason for the Government's recently announced speed limit review is the intention to introduce satellite control of vehicle speeds, according to road safety campaign Safe Speed.
Speed limit review hides sinister purpose
Satellite control is the end game, reckons road safety campaign
The start of satellite control?
So called 'Intelligent Speed Adaptation' (ISA) is a black box installed in a vehicle that holds a map of all speed limits, determines your position from satellite signals and adjust the throttle - or even applies the brakes - to prevent your vehicle from exceeding the speed limit. And the new limits would discourage drivers from circumventing main road limits by using back roads, reckoned campaign founder Paul Smith.
The ISA system is being developed at Leeds University, which is years behind in terms of publishing the results of recent trials, according to Smith, despite spending millions of pounds of Department for Transport money and then evaluating its own results -- which flies in the face of established scientific procedures.
Smith said: "I'm amazed to hear of a second deadly mistake by Department for Transport within as many days. Initial trials from Leeds clearly demonstrated the dangers of the system as drivers paid less attention, tailgated more and pulled into smaller gaps.
"Anyone who understand safe driving will know that safety depends on drivers being fully engaged in the task. With ISA ordinary motorists will turn into zombies with their foot planted to the floor, trusting the satellite to control their speed. They will not be as ready to deal road hazards. They will behave like zombies.
"Department for Transport policies have failed and now they want to do much more of the same. Safe Speed estimates that 8,000 have already died of 'bad policy' on British roads, because DfT policies have made drivers worse and caused a loss of trend in the fatal accident rate.
"Since the introduction of HGV speed limiters, deaths amongst HGV drivers have risen alarmingly. And satellite speed control is anything but intelligent. Who is going to stop this trend before it's too late?"
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Discussion
Great, go to overtake idiot bimbling along 15mph under the limit, they speed up as they do, you can't get past because suddenly you both go at 50mph max, while the gap you left behind is closed up as the car following accelerates to make some time up.
Lovely head on collission occurs.
Everyone bombing into roundabouts at top speed to make up time, late braking, tailgating...
Yes, the future is grim if speed limits are rigidly enforced.
Considering the reason for lower limits (apparently) is because we are providing for the lowest common denominator, then surely the obvious fact the LCD have other poor driving skills too means that having them bunched up will just make them more of a risk?
I wonder how many more lives have to be lost flogging this stupid policy of slower speeds to make the roads safer.
I'm sure ultimately it will, but not without good training too, which in itself would negate the need for lower speeds in itself anyway
Dave
Lovely head on collission occurs.
Everyone bombing into roundabouts at top speed to make up time, late braking, tailgating...
Yes, the future is grim if speed limits are rigidly enforced.
Considering the reason for lower limits (apparently) is because we are providing for the lowest common denominator, then surely the obvious fact the LCD have other poor driving skills too means that having them bunched up will just make them more of a risk?
I wonder how many more lives have to be lost flogging this stupid policy of slower speeds to make the roads safer.
I'm sure ultimately it will, but not without good training too, which in itself would negate the need for lower speeds in itself anyway
Dave
yes please stop this nonsence, the idea is not that bad in some cases(on trucks and vans) but get real you will fall asleep many more accidents will happen if they bring something like this! we need to get concentrated on the road and drive ourselfs! and sometimes speed keeps you awake and keeps you concentrate where roads alow and safe to do so...
Some instruments for safety in cars are ok but safety contrlled outside over your car? do something better for your money...their will always be people who drive like crazy or make accidents that will always be the case, but please don't blame us all for that! the more rules and stuf like that the more we got itcy? so not good for road safety!! the more brutal we become, again not good for road safety...dead we always will have in accidents that comes with teh "game" we could have so much more fun with less rules and a bit more comming sence? or how you say that in English...
Drive smart and have fun driving, a happy driver is mostly a better driver
GTRene
Some instruments for safety in cars are ok but safety contrlled outside over your car? do something better for your money...their will always be people who drive like crazy or make accidents that will always be the case, but please don't blame us all for that! the more rules and stuf like that the more we got itcy? so not good for road safety!! the more brutal we become, again not good for road safety...dead we always will have in accidents that comes with teh "game" we could have so much more fun with less rules and a bit more comming sence? or how you say that in English...
Drive smart and have fun driving, a happy driver is mostly a better driver
GTRene
ISA is a non starter. Here are a couple of nightmare scenarios.
30 limit passes over a motorway or runs next to it. Either 70-30 = crash or 30-70 = crash.
People would constantly drive with there pedal to the metal and rely on the good old ISA to keep them legal Drive into a tunnel, lose signal and drive straight into the back of the car in front of you.
On a plus side "Do you realise how fast you were travelling sir?""No officer, I was relying on my ISA to keep an eye on that for me, it must be malfunctioning" whilst hiding soldering iron
30 limit passes over a motorway or runs next to it. Either 70-30 = crash or 30-70 = crash.
People would constantly drive with there pedal to the metal and rely on the good old ISA to keep them legal Drive into a tunnel, lose signal and drive straight into the back of the car in front of you.
On a plus side "Do you realise how fast you were travelling sir?""No officer, I was relying on my ISA to keep an eye on that for me, it must be malfunctioning" whilst hiding soldering iron
As if they're going to do this!! How do they propose
to carry on with the speed camera theiving if none of us are capable
of breaking the limit?
What next? Cool cookers and irons for the home or all of us forced to live in bungalows because people fall down stairs??
It's time we told these idiots to p.ss off!!!!
to carry on with the speed camera theiving if none of us are capable
of breaking the limit?
What next? Cool cookers and irons for the home or all of us forced to live in bungalows because people fall down stairs??
It's time we told these idiots to p.ss off!!!!
mondeohdear said:
ISA is a non starter. Here are a couple of nightmare scenarios.
30 limit passes over a motorway or runs next to it. Either 70-30 = crash or 30-70 = crash.
People would constantly drive with there pedal to the metal and rely on the good old ISA to keep them legal Drive into a tunnel, lose signal and drive straight into the back of the car in front of you.
On a plus side "Do you realise how fast you were travelling sir?""No officer, I was relying on my ISA to keep an eye on that for me, it must be malfunctioning" whilst hiding soldering iron
30 limit passes over a motorway or runs next to it. Either 70-30 = crash or 30-70 = crash.
People would constantly drive with there pedal to the metal and rely on the good old ISA to keep them legal Drive into a tunnel, lose signal and drive straight into the back of the car in front of you.
On a plus side "Do you realise how fast you were travelling sir?""No officer, I was relying on my ISA to keep an eye on that for me, it must be malfunctioning" whilst hiding soldering iron
Sorry Mondy, you're being far too logical here, this is an illogical situation administered by accountants who are advised by spin doctors. It'll probably happen with even more frantic statistic doctoring
apache said:
mondeohdear said:
ISA is a non starter. Here are a couple of nightmare scenarios.
30 limit passes over a motorway or runs next to it. Either 70-30 = crash or 30-70 = crash.
People would constantly drive with there pedal to the metal and rely on the good old ISA to keep them legal Drive into a tunnel, lose signal and drive straight into the back of the car in front of you.
On a plus side "Do you realise how fast you were travelling sir?""No officer, I was relying on my ISA to keep an eye on that for me, it must be malfunctioning" whilst hiding soldering iron
30 limit passes over a motorway or runs next to it. Either 70-30 = crash or 30-70 = crash.
People would constantly drive with there pedal to the metal and rely on the good old ISA to keep them legal Drive into a tunnel, lose signal and drive straight into the back of the car in front of you.
On a plus side "Do you realise how fast you were travelling sir?""No officer, I was relying on my ISA to keep an eye on that for me, it must be malfunctioning" whilst hiding soldering iron
Sorry Mondy, you're being far too logical here, this is an illogical situation administered by accountants who are advised by spin doctors. It'll probably happen with even more frantic statistic doctoring
Sorry about that
It should actually decrease revenue whilst simultaneously decreasing safety. seems like a lose lose for the government but a win win for the university that is wasting public money on research that can't provide anything positive
mondeohdear said:
ISA is a non starter. Here are a couple of nightmare scenarios.
30 limit passes over a motorway or runs next to it. Either 70-30 = crash or 30-70 = crash.
People would constantly drive with there pedal to the metal and rely on the good old ISA to keep them legal Drive into a tunnel, lose signal and drive straight into the back of the car in front of you.
On a plus side "Do you realise how fast you were travelling sir?""No officer, I was relying on my ISA to keep an eye on that for me, it must be malfunctioning" whilst hiding soldering iron
30 limit passes over a motorway or runs next to it. Either 70-30 = crash or 30-70 = crash.
People would constantly drive with there pedal to the metal and rely on the good old ISA to keep them legal Drive into a tunnel, lose signal and drive straight into the back of the car in front of you.
On a plus side "Do you realise how fast you were travelling sir?""No officer, I was relying on my ISA to keep an eye on that for me, it must be malfunctioning" whilst hiding soldering iron
I think this is a great idea. How I will laugh when about 2 minutes after it becoming law some whizz kid will make a little black box that disables the ISA, sell it on the internet, then all the crims can buy one, nick a car and drive like an absolute loon! The only thing that surprises me is that the spin doctors haven't sold ISA as "Crime preventing method" as thieves won't be able to get away from the BiB anymore. You know like banning handguns, we instantly saw a massive drop in gun crime there didn't we...... Oh wait.
Ahhh....That Leeds University project, led by the worthy Professor Oliver Carsten...
Expert academic in engineering science, design or electronics, I hear you ask...
Well, actually, no....
He has a few degrees, some from overseas in...
Errrr.....
Wait for it, wait for it....
HISTORY....... !
Expert academic in engineering science, design or electronics, I hear you ask...
Well, actually, no....
He has a few degrees, some from overseas in...
Errrr.....
Wait for it, wait for it....
HISTORY....... !
Al 450 said:
Non starter don't worry. GPS isn't reliable enough. Just goes to show that the kind of people who come up with these schemes don't have a clue what they are on about.
Just wrap said box in tin foil or even better remove it and attach to lawn mower...
Just wrap said box in tin foil or even better remove it and attach to lawn mower...
They have a new European system in the air GALILEO
http://ec.europa.eu/dgs/energy_transp
...so we not depence on the GPS by then, and the new system is much more precize...but even then, it won't happen in our days
its to silly for words! every "new" member wanted to put his/her name in history and change some things here and there? leaf us alone, make things better...simpeler easyer but not more rules not more complicated...we are no machines!!! we are people and some brains are full yet so please don't give us more brain wurries...make life more easyer help us with that if you like to do something for humaniti...again we are no robots! and have no GB brains and anough is anough GTRene
Edited by GTRene on Thursday 10th August 13:28
apache said:
Sorry Mondy, you're being far too logical here, this is an illogical situation administered by accountants who are advised by spin doctors. It'll probably happen with even more frantic statistic doctoring
Nothing to do with accountants...to become an accountant you need intelligence and a logical mind.
Also, one of the first things you get taught is cost-benefit analysis...and there's a LOT of cost for little benefit here...unless you consider massively increased social control as a benefit...ah...of course!!!
Hold on while I make a call home.
"Don't sell the MGB. I think I might want it."
Seriously, I don't see this happening any time soon. It's not just a sure-fire vote loser, it's probably a revolution raiser. Plus the complexity. How many different variants of ECU, electronic ignition, distributor, magneto, and whatever other method of timing and spark generation are out there?
Even if there was a way to fit this to every car on the road, and the necessary bills were passed, what's going to happen to all the people with qualifications and/or work experience sufficient to join another country's immigration scheme? Are we really likely to stick around?
On the plus side it would lead to a reduction in KSIs, as all the scum left behind wouldn't have any taxpayers about to pay for their petrol.
"Don't sell the MGB. I think I might want it."
Seriously, I don't see this happening any time soon. It's not just a sure-fire vote loser, it's probably a revolution raiser. Plus the complexity. How many different variants of ECU, electronic ignition, distributor, magneto, and whatever other method of timing and spark generation are out there?
Even if there was a way to fit this to every car on the road, and the necessary bills were passed, what's going to happen to all the people with qualifications and/or work experience sufficient to join another country's immigration scheme? Are we really likely to stick around?
On the plus side it would lead to a reduction in KSIs, as all the scum left behind wouldn't have any taxpayers about to pay for their petrol.
I'll show you how reliable GPS data is on a journey.
The file below can be loaded into Google Earth. It tracks a recent ride down one of the canals around Manchester. Tree-lined, bushes, bridges - all the things you'll find on your average suburban road. The receiver is the latest SirfIII chipset, extremely sensitive. The data was logged on my mobile phone, with surprising accuracy (in terms of points logged)
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/tom.jeff
Now you tell me how data so unreliable could be used to plot anybody's course or speed?
The file below can be loaded into Google Earth. It tracks a recent ride down one of the canals around Manchester. Tree-lined, bushes, bridges - all the things you'll find on your average suburban road. The receiver is the latest SirfIII chipset, extremely sensitive. The data was logged on my mobile phone, with surprising accuracy (in terms of points logged)
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/tom.jeff
Now you tell me how data so unreliable could be used to plot anybody's course or speed?
Edited by Parrot of Doom on Thursday 10th August 13:36
Sources of GPS signal errors
Factors that can degrade the GPS signal and thus affect accuracy include the following:
Ionosphere and troposphere delays — The satellite signal slows as it passes through the atmosphere. The GPS system uses a built-in model that calculates an average amount of delay to partially correct for this type of error.
Signal multipath — This occurs when the GPS signal is reflected off objects such as tall buildings or large rock surfaces before it reaches the receiver. This increases the travel time of the signal, thereby causing errors.
Receiver clock errors — A receiver's built-in clock is not as accurate as the atomic clocks onboard the GPS satellites. Therefore, it may have very slight timing errors.
Orbital errors — Also known as ephemeris errors, these are inaccuracies of the satellite's reported location.
Number of satellites visible — The more satellites a GPS receiver can "see," the better the accuracy. Buildings, terrain, electronic interference, or sometimes even dense foliage can block signal reception, causing position errors or possibly no position reading at all. GPS units typically will not work indoors, underwater or underground.
Satellite geometry/shading — This refers to the relative position of the satellites at any given time. Ideal satellite geometry exists when the satellites are located at wide angles relative to each other. Poor geometry results when the satellites are located in a line or in a tight grouping.
Intentional degradation of the satellite signal — Selective Availability (SA) is an intentional degradation of the signal once imposed by the U.S. Department of Defense. SA was intended to prevent military adversaries from using the highly accurate GPS signals. The government turned off SA in May 2000, which significantly improved the accuracy of civilian GPS receivers
Factors that can degrade the GPS signal and thus affect accuracy include the following:
Ionosphere and troposphere delays — The satellite signal slows as it passes through the atmosphere. The GPS system uses a built-in model that calculates an average amount of delay to partially correct for this type of error.
Signal multipath — This occurs when the GPS signal is reflected off objects such as tall buildings or large rock surfaces before it reaches the receiver. This increases the travel time of the signal, thereby causing errors.
Receiver clock errors — A receiver's built-in clock is not as accurate as the atomic clocks onboard the GPS satellites. Therefore, it may have very slight timing errors.
Orbital errors — Also known as ephemeris errors, these are inaccuracies of the satellite's reported location.
Number of satellites visible — The more satellites a GPS receiver can "see," the better the accuracy. Buildings, terrain, electronic interference, or sometimes even dense foliage can block signal reception, causing position errors or possibly no position reading at all. GPS units typically will not work indoors, underwater or underground.
Satellite geometry/shading — This refers to the relative position of the satellites at any given time. Ideal satellite geometry exists when the satellites are located at wide angles relative to each other. Poor geometry results when the satellites are located in a line or in a tight grouping.
Intentional degradation of the satellite signal — Selective Availability (SA) is an intentional degradation of the signal once imposed by the U.S. Department of Defense. SA was intended to prevent military adversaries from using the highly accurate GPS signals. The government turned off SA in May 2000, which significantly improved the accuracy of civilian GPS receivers
No real need to worry about any of this because:
It will not be possible to retro-fit it.
It will be easy to disable with a low-tech piece of chicken wire or something similar
The gov't's track record with high-tech projects (air traffic control, NHS data-base, etc) is a disaster.
Drivers will be resistant to it.
GPS is not yet reliable enough and signal strength varies considerably. Why should Gallileo be any more reliable than the US version.
It would cost too much of the Dep't of Transport's budgets for a potential nil-return.
Foreign vehicles would not be affected.
The media publicity would be mainly adverse which could have an effect on voting patterns.
It will not be possible to retro-fit it.
It will be easy to disable with a low-tech piece of chicken wire or something similar
The gov't's track record with high-tech projects (air traffic control, NHS data-base, etc) is a disaster.
Drivers will be resistant to it.
GPS is not yet reliable enough and signal strength varies considerably. Why should Gallileo be any more reliable than the US version.
It would cost too much of the Dep't of Transport's budgets for a potential nil-return.
Foreign vehicles would not be affected.
The media publicity would be mainly adverse which could have an effect on voting patterns.
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