Cowboys - odd situation. Need help.
Discussion
Don't know if anybody reading this wants to get their teeth into my problem here, but the internet is a scary place full of very clever people. Fingers crossed this is read by those scary people.
Facts:
My car has been towed from a legally parked position, on private land, in accordance with all cowboy signage, by a private cowboy parking company -
They claim I have a unpaid 'fine' from during an extended time period when the car was not even in the same town. Unsurprisingly, I dispute this!
Furthermore, I have NEVER been contacted by either Approved Parking Services or BE Management regarding the alleged 'fine.' My details with the DVLA are up to date.
I have sent the email below to the acting estate manager and cc'd my landlord.
'Approved Parking Services' act as agents of my estate's management company 'BE Management' (Byrne Estates).
The police keep dismissing this as a civil dispute (despite it being illegal to seize goods over a debt without a court order or warrant). I believe I need to get an injunction at the local courts, first thing in the morning, however to serve this I need to get hold of Approved Parking Services directly, and they are very evasive. I can't get any real information about where to find them. They claim my car is in their storage facility in Maidstone. The have post drop addresses in London and a PO Box number in Maidstone, these are of little use to me.
Internet bad boys - GO!
ETA
names please.
Facts:
My car has been towed from a legally parked position, on private land, in accordance with all cowboy signage, by a private cowboy parking company -
They claim I have a unpaid 'fine' from during an extended time period when the car was not even in the same town. Unsurprisingly, I dispute this!
Furthermore, I have NEVER been contacted by either Approved Parking Services or BE Management regarding the alleged 'fine.' My details with the DVLA are up to date.
I have sent the email below to the acting estate manager and cc'd my landlord.
'Approved Parking Services' act as agents of my estate's management company 'BE Management' (Byrne Estates).
The police keep dismissing this as a civil dispute (despite it being illegal to seize goods over a debt without a court order or warrant). I believe I need to get an injunction at the local courts, first thing in the morning, however to serve this I need to get hold of Approved Parking Services directly, and they are very evasive. I can't get any real information about where to find them. They claim my car is in their storage facility in Maidstone. The have post drop addresses in London and a PO Box number in Maidstone, these are of little use to me.
Internet bad boys - GO!
The email I sent to the acting estate manager said:
Dear Kevin,
Many thanks for assisting me in raising this matter, here are the facts:
1) Approved Parking have removed my Lotus Elise from a parking bay in which it had every right to be parked.
2) Approved Parking have taken this action without ever contacting me (the registered keeper and owner, I've checked it's all up to date with the DVLA) over an alleged debt arising from an alleged historical fine (not that it actually would be a 'fine' in law and NOT THAT IT HAS ANY BEARING ON TODAY'S ACTION).
NOTE: it is ILLEGAL to seize my goods in respect of a debt (whether real or imagined) without first obtaining a court order and warrant.
I have sought specialist legal advice and it appears Approved Parking have acted unlawfully, committing offences under the following acts:
The Consumer Protection from Unfair tradings 2008 - ( http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukdsi/2008/978011081... sections 7 and 11)
The Torts (Interference with Goods) Act 1977 - ( http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1977/32 )
I am about to raise the matter with the police and, if that fails, with the courts where I will seek an injunction at 9:00 tomorrow morning. I am bringing this matter to your attention to raise my dissatisfaction at the operating practices of Approved Parking, and furthermore to inform you that I will be seeking to recover all costs from responsible parties, which will include but is not limited to loss of earnings (already in the thousands from this single afternoon's delay) and any other damages. As I understand it the responsible parties are jointly BE Management and their agent Approved Parking - please correct me if I'm wrong.
Kind regards,
Jay
P.S. my landlord is copied in on this email purely for his information.
Am I doing this right?Many thanks for assisting me in raising this matter, here are the facts:
1) Approved Parking have removed my Lotus Elise from a parking bay in which it had every right to be parked.
2) Approved Parking have taken this action without ever contacting me (the registered keeper and owner, I've checked it's all up to date with the DVLA) over an alleged debt arising from an alleged historical fine (not that it actually would be a 'fine' in law and NOT THAT IT HAS ANY BEARING ON TODAY'S ACTION).
NOTE: it is ILLEGAL to seize my goods in respect of a debt (whether real or imagined) without first obtaining a court order and warrant.
I have sought specialist legal advice and it appears Approved Parking have acted unlawfully, committing offences under the following acts:
The Consumer Protection from Unfair tradings 2008 - ( http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukdsi/2008/978011081... sections 7 and 11)
The Torts (Interference with Goods) Act 1977 - ( http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1977/32 )
I am about to raise the matter with the police and, if that fails, with the courts where I will seek an injunction at 9:00 tomorrow morning. I am bringing this matter to your attention to raise my dissatisfaction at the operating practices of Approved Parking, and furthermore to inform you that I will be seeking to recover all costs from responsible parties, which will include but is not limited to loss of earnings (already in the thousands from this single afternoon's delay) and any other damages. As I understand it the responsible parties are jointly BE Management and their agent Approved Parking - please correct me if I'm wrong.
Kind regards,
Jay
P.S. my landlord is copied in on this email purely for his information.
ETA
names please.Edited by Big Al. on Tuesday 7th February 22:48
Contact the Royal Mail. They will tell you the address the PO Box is registered to, though not the name. They are obliged to give you this information.
Edit: But yes, you're more than able to name both the management company and their agent (the clampers) on the injunction. It may at the very least get the management company to sit up and do something about it!
More Editing:
That's the address you need to serve them at. Once you have an order, you can then call them up and play any game you like to get them to take you to their pound to retrieve the vehicle. Then just serve them with the documents, and demand your vehicle. It may help to record the encounter, as you'll probably be back in court the next day to get the judge to hold them in contempt of the order.
ETA
Sorry No names please
Edit: But yes, you're more than able to name both the management company and their agent (the clampers) on the injunction. It may at the very least get the management company to sit up and do something about it!
More Editing:
That's the address you need to serve them at. Once you have an order, you can then call them up and play any game you like to get them to take you to their pound to retrieve the vehicle. Then just serve them with the documents, and demand your vehicle. It may help to record the encounter, as you'll probably be back in court the next day to get the judge to hold them in contempt of the order.
Edited by Cyberprog on Tuesday 7th February 21:13
ETA
Sorry No names please
Edited by Big Al. on Wednesday 8th February 15:00
Cyberprog said:
Contact the Royal Mail. They will tell you the address the PO Box is registered to, though not the name. They are obliged to give you this information.
Edit: But yes, you're more than able to name both the management company and their agent (the clampers) on the injunction. It may at the very least get the management company to sit up and do something about it!
Thanks for those tips. Edit: But yes, you're more than able to name both the management company and their agent (the clampers) on the injunction. It may at the very least get the management company to sit up and do something about it!
Check out the webcheck service at companies house - www.companieshouse.gov.uk
Their registered address is given below, and you should also be able to download details of the current directors (in the event you decide to join the directors in with the company as joint tortfeasors)
:censored.
ETA
No names or addresses please.
Their registered address is given below, and you should also be able to download details of the current directors (in the event you decide to join the directors in with the company as joint tortfeasors)
:censored.
ETA
No names or addresses please.
Edited by Big Al. on Wednesday 8th February 14:58
If that's the address they're listing on Companies house, then that's the one to serve them at.
171-173 are a set of managed offices, run by the Office Group who also offer virtual offices.
Number 24 doesn't seem to be much of anything.
I'd hazard a guess that Goldblatts Limited are their accountants as they also have offices at 171-173. I'd send any mail Care of GoldBlatts Limited at that address, and possibly ring the accountants and see if they will disclose the best service address for their client.
Unusually for a parking company, they have had no CCJ's in the last 24 months according to riskdisk. You could also write to RVPA Services Ltd at number 24 marking it for the attention of the company secretary. They seem to be involved with a number of clamping companies, but are likely to be accountants of some sort.
171-173 are a set of managed offices, run by the Office Group who also offer virtual offices.
Number 24 doesn't seem to be much of anything.
I'd hazard a guess that Goldblatts Limited are their accountants as they also have offices at 171-173. I'd send any mail Care of GoldBlatts Limited at that address, and possibly ring the accountants and see if they will disclose the best service address for their client.
Unusually for a parking company, they have had no CCJ's in the last 24 months according to riskdisk. You could also write to RVPA Services Ltd at number 24 marking it for the attention of the company secretary. They seem to be involved with a number of clamping companies, but are likely to be accountants of some sort.
Edited by Cyberprog on Tuesday 7th February 21:24
Hungry Pigeon said:
Check out the webcheck service at companies house - www.companieshouse.gov.uk
Their registered address is given below, and you should also be able to download details of the current directors (in the event you decide to join the directors in with the company as joint tortfeasors)
Sadly I've found that address (and another on the same road) and their Maidstone PO Box... I'm hoping to get a real-life location for the swines so I may hand deliver a letter giving them a deadline before I go to court.Their registered address is given below, and you should also be able to download details of the current directors (in the event you decide to join the directors in with the company as joint tortfeasors)
Jaykaybi said:
Sadly I've found that address (and another on the same road) and their Maidstone PO Box... I'm hoping to get a real-life location for the swines so I may hand deliver a letter giving them a deadline before I go to court.
No need, hand deliver them at that address, That's all you're legally obliged to do, it's their problem they're trying to hide their real address.I bet their accountants will charge them a pretty penny for dealing with it also.
Edit: Thinking about it however, make it the management companies problem. They're the people you have a contract with, they're the ones responsible for the actions of their agent. Name them instead of the clampers, and they will be the ones held responsible by the courts if they don't get your vehicle back to you.
Edited by Cyberprog on Tuesday 7th February 21:30
Cyberprog said:
Contact the Royal Mail. They will tell you the address the PO Box is registered to, though not the name. They are obliged to give you this information.
Edit: But yes, you're more than able to name both the management company and their agent (the clampers) on the injunction. It may at the very least get the management company to sit up and do something about it!
More Editing:
That's the address you need to serve them at. Once you have an order, you can then call them up and play any game you like to get them to take you to their pound to retrieve the vehicle. Then just serve them with the documents, and demand your vehicle. It may help to record the encounter, as you'll probably be back in court the next day to get the judge to hold them in contempt of the order.
My search comes up with Central Parking Services, same named Director, home address MaidstoneEdit: But yes, you're more than able to name both the management company and their agent (the clampers) on the injunction. It may at the very least get the management company to sit up and do something about it!
More Editing:
That's the address you need to serve them at. Once you have an order, you can then call them up and play any game you like to get them to take you to their pound to retrieve the vehicle. Then just serve them with the documents, and demand your vehicle. It may help to record the encounter, as you'll probably be back in court the next day to get the judge to hold them in contempt of the order.
Edited by Cyberprog on Tuesday 7th February 21:13
Cyberprog said:
Jaykaybi said:
Sadly I've found that address (and another on the same road) and their Maidstone PO Box... I'm hoping to get a real-life location for the swines so I may hand deliver a letter giving them a deadline before I go to court.
No need, hand deliver them at that address, That's all you're legally obliged to do, it's their problem they're trying to hide their real address.I bet their accountants will charge them a pretty penny for dealing with it also.
Edit: Thinking about it however, make it the management companies problem. They're the people you have a contract with, they're the ones responsible for the actions of their agent. Name them instead of the clampers, and they will be the ones held responsible by the courts if they don't get your vehicle back to you.
Jaykaybi said:
It'd certainly be easier to hassle them. I have to admit though I'm not certain how to go about getting this injunction, what conditions I need to satisfy etc. Does anybody here?
I'm unsure of exactly what you need to be submitting or what it's called. You have another option, pay whatever they are demanding and sue the management company via small claims for the amount you have had to pay. Either way you will have to shell out some money.To obtain an exparte injunction:
Fill out an N1 claim form, the brief details of the claim being for "the return to the claimant of the vehicle taken from his/her possession on DATE by agents acting for the defendant".
3 Copies
Fill out an N16A -General form for injunction. This is a one page form where you ask the court that the defendant "be forbidden from selling, auctioning or otherwise disposing of the vehicle currently in its possession and return it to the claimant.
3 copies
Witness statement - your own, no need for exhibits yet.
3 copies
Go to the local court at 10am (before the judges start their normal lists) and say you have an ex parte injunction application. This costs £150, or if you are on benefits you are exempt (take evidence).
Wait until a judge has time to hear the injunction.
(Text pinched from here)
Fill out an N1 claim form, the brief details of the claim being for "the return to the claimant of the vehicle taken from his/her possession on DATE by agents acting for the defendant".
3 Copies
Fill out an N16A -General form for injunction. This is a one page form where you ask the court that the defendant "be forbidden from selling, auctioning or otherwise disposing of the vehicle currently in its possession and return it to the claimant.
3 copies
Witness statement - your own, no need for exhibits yet.
3 copies
Go to the local court at 10am (before the judges start their normal lists) and say you have an ex parte injunction application. This costs £150, or if you are on benefits you are exempt (take evidence).
Wait until a judge has time to hear the injunction.
(Text pinched from here)
Cyberprog said:
To obtain an exparte injunction:
Fill out an N1 claim form, the brief details of the claim being for "the return to the claimant of the vehicle taken from his/her possession on DATE by agents acting for the defendant".
3 Copies
Fill out an N16A -General form for injunction. This is a one page form where you ask the court that the defendant "be forbidden from selling, auctioning or otherwise disposing of the vehicle currently in its possession and return it to the claimant.
3 copies
Witness statement - your own, no need for exhibits yet.
3 copies
Go to the local court at 10am (before the judges start their normal lists) and say you have an ex parte injunction application. This costs £150, or if you are on benefits you are exempt (take evidence).
(Text pinched from here
Wait until a judge has time to hear the injunction.
Very helpful - thankyou!Fill out an N1 claim form, the brief details of the claim being for "the return to the claimant of the vehicle taken from his/her possession on DATE by agents acting for the defendant".
3 Copies
Fill out an N16A -General form for injunction. This is a one page form where you ask the court that the defendant "be forbidden from selling, auctioning or otherwise disposing of the vehicle currently in its possession and return it to the claimant.
3 copies
Witness statement - your own, no need for exhibits yet.
3 copies
Go to the local court at 10am (before the judges start their normal lists) and say you have an ex parte injunction application. This costs £150, or if you are on benefits you are exempt (take evidence).
(Text pinched from here
Wait until a judge has time to hear the injunction.
Cyberprog said:
I'd ensure you name both the management company, and their agent, and state that you want the vehicle returned and should they have a debt they feel needs to be heard, that they do so legally.
Personally I'd be insisting that the police got involved, hell go report it stolen!
I did go to the police station. They said it was borderline... called the clamper... and then just said 'it's a civil matter mate' and fobbed me off. Disinterested desk workers, predictably.Personally I'd be insisting that the police got involved, hell go report it stolen!
ETA - they didn't even ask the clamper any of the important questions - 'did you have a court order or warrant to remove this man's car?' for a start.
You need to stay focused on what you want: your car back, as quickly as possible at least cost (ideally nil cost in the final analysis).
Sure, go for an injunction. You'll pïss them off and there's a good chance they feel righteous about their actions to date and will contest it. If they do prove to be righteous, your costs will rise.
Write to them as they instruct on their site. Explain the situation in least words with no emotion; stick to facts. They claim they take timestamped photos of offences - they will therefore have a photo of whatever they believe happened months ago, and the recent snatch. If not, it's a chink in their case. They should also have the other copy(ies) of whatever tickets they reckon they're prosecuting. If not, this is a police matter - it's a stolen car.
If they're completely guilty and you're completely innocent, get the police the evidence. They'll get your car back. Cost to you? Some time and a couple of stamps. You will have a case to claim damages (cab/train/rental fares) for the period you've been carless - up to you whether you can be arsed to pursue the damages (you'd have had petrol/parking to pay if you'd used the car) so the 'net loss' might not be worth the aggro.
If they send you photos, and the documents you've never had, then you've got a problem. The cheapest solution will - pragmatically - be to pay them. Remember, you want your car back soonest and at least cost. Get into a protracted argument about tickets you never received and your car's going to be clocking up storage costs.
Sure, go for an injunction. You'll pïss them off and there's a good chance they feel righteous about their actions to date and will contest it. If they do prove to be righteous, your costs will rise.
Write to them as they instruct on their site. Explain the situation in least words with no emotion; stick to facts. They claim they take timestamped photos of offences - they will therefore have a photo of whatever they believe happened months ago, and the recent snatch. If not, it's a chink in their case. They should also have the other copy(ies) of whatever tickets they reckon they're prosecuting. If not, this is a police matter - it's a stolen car.
If they're completely guilty and you're completely innocent, get the police the evidence. They'll get your car back. Cost to you? Some time and a couple of stamps. You will have a case to claim damages (cab/train/rental fares) for the period you've been carless - up to you whether you can be arsed to pursue the damages (you'd have had petrol/parking to pay if you'd used the car) so the 'net loss' might not be worth the aggro.
If they send you photos, and the documents you've never had, then you've got a problem. The cheapest solution will - pragmatically - be to pay them. Remember, you want your car back soonest and at least cost. Get into a protracted argument about tickets you never received and your car's going to be clocking up storage costs.
Jay, very sorry to hear about your problem. I note your first post mentions a landlord. Does this mean you are renting the property and that the landlord is the leaseholder? If so, the right to the allocated parking place belongs to him/her. Whether he/she can pass on that right by virtue of a sub-let might be the issue. What name does Byrne Estates records show? Is there a permit system in operation?
simoid said:
bosscerbera said:
If they're completely guilty and you're completely innocent...
OP says his car was in a different town for an extended period at the time of the alleged breach of parking type contract.Just saying
If there is no basis - as the OP states - AP's response to his letter will prove this. The police/courts will move on that.
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