Trespassers Will Be Prosecuted
Discussion
Just thinking today as we walked along some foot paths with the dog...
"Trespassers Will Be Prosecuted" signs were all around a particular farm and their fields (although the dog didn't seem to see them).
What is the process to prosecute somebody and if they put "will", that must mean that they have to follow through with it?
Im assuming it is very rare to actually prosecute people who stray on to land...?
"Trespassers Will Be Prosecuted" signs were all around a particular farm and their fields (although the dog didn't seem to see them).
What is the process to prosecute somebody and if they put "will", that must mean that they have to follow through with it?
Im assuming it is very rare to actually prosecute people who stray on to land...?
BJT said:
Just thinking today as we walked along some foot paths with the dog...
"Trespassers Will Be Prosecuted" signs were all around a particular farm and their fields (although the dog didn't seem to see them).
What is the process to prosecute somebody and if they put "will", that must mean that they have to follow through with it?
Im assuming it is very rare to actually prosecute people who stray on to land...?
I think a farmer has the right to shoot your dog if it is causing livestock distress, I would be more concerned about that."Trespassers Will Be Prosecuted" signs were all around a particular farm and their fields (although the dog didn't seem to see them).
What is the process to prosecute somebody and if they put "will", that must mean that they have to follow through with it?
Im assuming it is very rare to actually prosecute people who stray on to land...?
Ru78 said:
Right to roam doesn't apply to all land, only open land, which means grassland in permanent pasture... this is fairly complicated, and off topic, but there is not a right to go anywhere you fancy! As for ability to prosecute... seriously difficult!
Ru
You can be sued for causing a private nuisance.Ru
Your definition of permanent pasture is wrong.
DEFRA designation PP1 (Permanent Pasture) is mostly grazed by livestock.
The vast majority of agricultural land has no public rights of access.
Wiki: The Countryside and Rights of Way Act 2000 (CROW) was gradually implemented from 2000 onwards to give the general public the conditional right to walk in certain areas of the English and Welsh countryside: principally downland, moorland, heathland and coastal land.
1point7bar, your right, my point was that there is considerably more countryside outside of the right to roam than in it, and land in it is mainly clearly marked... most of that land is grassland of one form or another, and typically is long standing grassland... hence moor, down etc.
Chances are that the farmer has every right to restrict access, but as several people have pointed out the likelihood of prosecution is slim, unless you are doing something particularly stupid!
Confusion here has led to farmers putting up more signs as ramblers assume a right to roam anywhere, and can be quiet unpleasant when they are corrected!
Ru
Chances are that the farmer has every right to restrict access, but as several people have pointed out the likelihood of prosecution is slim, unless you are doing something particularly stupid!
Confusion here has led to farmers putting up more signs as ramblers assume a right to roam anywhere, and can be quiet unpleasant when they are corrected!
Ru
The practical (not legal) reality is that so long as are only a couple of you, you are sticking to unplanted edges of the fields or the obvious tracks/paths, you are not pissing about yelling and shouting at each other and any animals are under your full control not bothering any livestock you are unlikely to hear a peep out of the farmer.
If you look like a seasoned ‘townie’ rambler with your Land Ranger O/s map, there are 4-5+ of you or your animals are not under your full control you are likely to be asked to leave in a manner that will not leave you in any doubt that you should not be where you are and are not welcome.
As said though with a few notable exceptions trespass is a civil matter not a criminal one and you would be in the County court not the Mags if the farmer were sufficiently pee’d off by your antics. Even then though it isn’t an easy case to win and therefore being ejected under threat of a pitchfork up the jacksie or the bull being let into the field the next time they see you there is their preferred method.
If you look like a seasoned ‘townie’ rambler with your Land Ranger O/s map, there are 4-5+ of you or your animals are not under your full control you are likely to be asked to leave in a manner that will not leave you in any doubt that you should not be where you are and are not welcome.
As said though with a few notable exceptions trespass is a civil matter not a criminal one and you would be in the County court not the Mags if the farmer were sufficiently pee’d off by your antics. Even then though it isn’t an easy case to win and therefore being ejected under threat of a pitchfork up the jacksie or the bull being let into the field the next time they see you there is their preferred method.
BJT said:
Sounds like it is a complicated issue then....
Had no intention of exploring, just curious as to why they had so many signs. They can shoot the dog apparently if it is distressing animals etc. it was just crops today however.
As far as I know the farmer can only shoot your dog if he has a specific entitlement on their shotgun/firearms license and I can't see it being very easy to get put on and then it can only be in certain circumstances such as actually attacking livestock as opposed to just being in the field.Had no intention of exploring, just curious as to why they had so many signs. They can shoot the dog apparently if it is distressing animals etc. it was just crops today however.
To be prosecuted for trespassing you have to be on private land and have caused some form of damage as far as I believe. E.g. you couldn't be prosecuted purely for going onto that land, however if you decided to destroy some crops while you're there then you could, but only under civil law.
Zeeky said:
The meaning in Scotland is wider than England and Wales. I don't think most farmland is included south of the border.
Yes , as I alluded to above , here in Scotland one can roam pretty much wherever one likes , with only a few specific exceptions . ( The OP didn't state where he was ) .Summarised here
A summary of your access rights
1. Everyone, whatever their age or ability, has access rights established by the Land
Reform (Scotland) Act 2003. You only have access rights if you exercise them
responsibly.
2. You can exercise these rights, provided you do so responsibly, over most land and
inland water in Scotland, including mountains, moorland, woods and forests, grassland,
margins of fields in which crops are growing, paths and tracks, rivers and lochs, the
coast and most parks and open spaces. Access rights can be exercised at any time of
the day or night.
3. You can exercise access rights for recreational purposes (such as pastimes, family
and social activities, and more active pursuits like horse riding, cycling, wild camping and
taking part in events), educational purposes (concerned with furthering a person’s
understanding of the natural and cultural heritage), some commercial purposes (where
the activities are the same as those done by the general public) and for crossing over
land or water.
4. Existing rights, including public rights of way and navigation, and existing rights on
the foreshore, continue.
5. The main places where access rights do not apply are:
houses and gardens, and non-residential buildings and associated land;
land in which crops are growing;
land next to a school and used by the school;
sports or playing fields when these are in use and where the exercise of access
rights would interfere with such use;
land developed and in use for recreation and where the exercise of access rights
would interfere with such use;
golf courses (but you can cross a golf course provided you don’t interfere with any
games of golf);
places like airfields, railways, telecommunication sites, military bases and
installations, working quarries and construction sites; and
visitor attractions or other places which charge for entry.
6. Local authorities can formally exempt land from access rights for short periods. Local
authorities and some other public bodies can introduce byelaws.
7. Access rights do not extend to:
being on or crossing land for the purpose of doing anything which is an offence, such
as theft, breach of the peace, nuisance, poaching, allowing a dog to worry livestock,
dropping litter, polluting water or disturbing certain wild birds, animals and plants;
hunting, shooting or fishing;
any form of motorised recreation or passage (except by people with a disability using
a vehicle or vessel adapted for their use);
anyone responsible for a dog which is not under proper control; or to
anyone taking away anything from the land for a commercial purpose.
8. Statutory access rights do not extend to some places or to some activities that the
public have enjoyed on a customary basis, often over a long period of time. Such
access is not affected by the Land Reform (Scotland) Act 2003 and will continue.
http://www.snh.org.uk/pdfs/access/approvedcode0506...
And for more detail , see the full Act
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/asp/2003/2/contents
Edited by Pontoneer on Tuesday 15th May 19:11
Caesar9 said:
As far as I know the farmer can only shoot your dog if he has a specific entitlement on their shotgun/firearms license and I can't see it being very easy to get put on and then it can only be in certain circumstances such as actually attacking livestock as opposed to just being in the field.
And no owner in sight. To commit the tort of trespass to land, you must, of course, be on that land, and your presence must either be known to the owner of the land and objected to, or, if your presence is not known to the owner of the land, it would be objected to if he became aware of it.
There are, of course, exceptions to this rule. The offence is one of strict liability, so a tortfeasor must have committed the trespass of his own accord, but need not have done so knowingly. No element of Mens Rea is necessary.
Simon.
There are, of course, exceptions to this rule. The offence is one of strict liability, so a tortfeasor must have committed the trespass of his own accord, but need not have done so knowingly. No element of Mens Rea is necessary.
Simon.
Related question: In the past I've been challenged whilst cycling on a footpath on private land. I checked up on the OS maps and it is indeed only a footpath Right of Way, so annoyingly the landowner (presuming they were actually the landowner, and not just a be-jodhpur-ed busybody) is correct and I am trespassing by being on the bike.
Most annoying really, as that path is part of the safest cycle route to work since it shortcuts a long section of narrow NSL road. The "footpath" RoW is actually a full width gravel track running past the bottom of a number of gardens and then between farm fields out onto adjoining common land. 99 times out of 100 I see no-one at all, and I am not in any other sense "trespassing" in terms of making noise, causing damage etc.
What could such a landowner actually do though, if, hypothetically, I continued to trespass?
Edit: Hypothetical path is hypothetically in England. Hypothetically.
Most annoying really, as that path is part of the safest cycle route to work since it shortcuts a long section of narrow NSL road. The "footpath" RoW is actually a full width gravel track running past the bottom of a number of gardens and then between farm fields out onto adjoining common land. 99 times out of 100 I see no-one at all, and I am not in any other sense "trespassing" in terms of making noise, causing damage etc.
What could such a landowner actually do though, if, hypothetically, I continued to trespass?
Edit: Hypothetical path is hypothetically in England. Hypothetically.
Edited by Ryvita on Wednesday 16th May 14:46
Ryvita said:
Related question: In the past I've been challenged whilst cycling on a footpath on private land. I checked up on the OS maps and it is indeed only a footpath Right of Way, so annoyingly the landowner (presuming they were actually the landowner, and not just a be-jodhpur-ed busybody) is correct and I am trespassing by being on the bike.
Most annoying really, as that path is part of the safest cycle route to work since it shortcuts a long section of narrow NSL road. The "footpath" RoW is actually a full width gravel track running past the bottom of a number of gardens and then between farm fields out onto adjoining common land. 99 times out of 100 I see no-one at all, and I am not in any other sense "trespassing" in terms of making noise, causing damage etc.
What could such a landowner actually do though, if, hypothetically, I continued to trespass?
Edit: Hypothetical path is hypothetically in England. Hypothetically.
Does the landowner have to do anything, or could you be breaking some law of statute or local bylaw?Most annoying really, as that path is part of the safest cycle route to work since it shortcuts a long section of narrow NSL road. The "footpath" RoW is actually a full width gravel track running past the bottom of a number of gardens and then between farm fields out onto adjoining common land. 99 times out of 100 I see no-one at all, and I am not in any other sense "trespassing" in terms of making noise, causing damage etc.
What could such a landowner actually do though, if, hypothetically, I continued to trespass?
Edit: Hypothetical path is hypothetically in England. Hypothetically.
Edited by Ryvita on Wednesday 16th May 14:46
A public footpath is just that, for use on foot. A bridleway (AFAIK) allows passage on foot horse or bike. I'm not sure about a bridleway , but I know a public footpath comes into being by being used by several people over I think seven years without objection. If a bridleway is the same and several (I forget the exact number) cyclists who had travelled the route without objection over the timeperiod, it could be that the footpath could be changed to bridleway status. Might be worth a word with the local council.
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