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BOF
Original Poster
858 posts
92 months
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This is from a recently retired friend...any thoughts on how I I might advise or help her?
"" I arrived at Doncaster after travelling on the Cleethorpes train, at 11.38. I took note from the departure
board my train into Kings Cross would be leaving from platform 1 at 12.16. I think then the time was changed
to 12.18. An announcement was given over the speaker that a train to Kings Cross was coming in but couldn't
hear exactly what was said. I must admit I didn't look again at the time after about 12.10 and when
train arrived I got on. It announced that it was a non stop train. There might have been some more information
but I was busy trying to find my booked seat. I must admit the train looked a little posher than I would have expected
but some times some of the Northern Trains are quite nice. The train has only been going for a few minutes when
the ticket inspector came along and noted I was on the wrong train. He advised me he could take into account
the price of my original ticket and would charge me £39.70 instead of round about £49.00? I argued that it wasn't my fault
but he insisted that I pay the excess! The train company was Grand Central Railway. I realise I should have taken more
care and notice but if the other train had come through on time at 12.08 i certainly would not have got on it.""
It seems absolute billhooks to me with the delays on trains that she had to pay this for getting on the wrong train...when did anyone see a train on time this year or last???
Any thoughts on how to help her complain?
BOF
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Tyre Smoke
9,205 posts
130 months
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Is it worth fighting for £40?
There really is no defence for getting on the wrong train when it (in all likelyhood) is a different livery and signwriting.
I reckon you will write a letter or two and get offered nothing.
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Centurion07
2,055 posts
116 months
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I don't think this is going to go how you expected.
Maybe it's just me but all I got from that was she got on the wrong train because she didn't check the time & was asked to pay the fare for the journey she was now taking?
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Efbe
4,864 posts
35 months
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firstly, why the hell did you pay him?
secondly, yes do fight it.
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PurpleMoonlight
1,328 posts
26 months
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How is it not her fault exactly?
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Podie
38,380 posts
144 months
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A polite email to customer services may get some sympathy and a partial refund gesture - but essentially she bought a cheaper ticket and travelled on a more expensive service.
Regrettably, I see this on the WCML, where people get a Virgin train instead of a London Midland one.
Previously my 85 year old grandfather has fallen foul of this sort of thing too.
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mcdjl
1,605 posts
64 months
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I've often though that if I'm booked on the 12:16 train that I'd get on the first train at or after 12.16 as in this case. The fact that its actually the late 12.00 train seems irrelevant to me.
The most realistic chance you have is the delay/repay refund form for the original train journey, which may get you some/all of the excess back.
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marshalla
8,021 posts
70 months
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She was booked onto specific train with an advance fare ticket, which had restrictions on which operator it could be used with and this was printed on the ticket.
She got on a train operated by a different company. She hadn't paid to be carried by that operator on any of their trains.
Would she expect British Airways to fly her somewhere just because she had a KLM ticket but the plane left within the same 5 minute window ?
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Tyre Smoke
9,205 posts
130 months
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marshalla said: She was booked onto specific train with an advance fare ticket, which had restrictions on which operator it could be used with and this was printed on the ticket.
She got on a train operated by a different company. She hadn't paid to be carried by that operator on any of their trains.
Would she expect British Airways to fly her somewhere just because she had a KLM ticket but the plane left within the same 5 minute window ? This. No excuses, she might be elderly, but she is capable of asking a station official if she getting on the right train surely? Also the platform signs will show clearly the approaching train and whether it is delayed or not.
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Podie
38,380 posts
144 months
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Actually, the conductor has done her a favour - he could have charged her a penalty fare AND the cost of the ticket.
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BOF
Original Poster
858 posts
92 months
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mcdjl said: I've often though that if I'm booked on the 12:16 train that I'd get on the first train at or after 12.16 as in this case. The fact that its actually the late 12.00 train seems irrelevant to me.
The most realistic chance you have is the delay/repay refund form for the original train journey, which may get you some/all of the excess back. All replies and comments are appreciated - my reason for getting really annoyed at the penalty is that I would do exactly as you state above...get on the train that came at my departure time... BOF
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Efbe
4,864 posts
35 months
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BOF said: All replies and comments are appreciated - my reason for getting really annoyed at the penalty is that I would do exactly as you state above...get on the train that came at my departure time...
BOF In that situation I wouldn't have paid. I would have provided an address, asked for an invoice, and told him to let me off at the next stop. I might not have gotten my own way though 
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Podie
38,380 posts
144 months
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Efbe said: In that situation I wouldn't have paid. In which case you'd be met by BTP
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mcdjl
1,605 posts
64 months
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Podie said: In which case you'd be met by BTP I thought that if you had no means of paying and they believed your address/identity they would let you carry on/kick you off at the next station.
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mdglen
26 posts
31 months
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Unfortunately once you've handed over the cash, there's no chance of getting the money back. You can appeal, but the appeals board is run by the train companies, who unsurprisingly tend to side with their paymasters.
The only way to win, is refuse to pay any penalty on the train (but do provide your correct name and address, as to not do so is a criminal offence), and then contest it when the snotty letter threatening you with a criminal record arrives.
The train operating companies now use penalty fares as a revenue stream, so it's in their interest to make catching a train as complicated a process as possible.
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Getragdogleg
3,666 posts
52 months
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marshalla said: She was booked onto specific train with an advance fare ticket, which had restrictions on which operator it could be used with and this was printed on the ticket. True, but the anouncement was not too clear by the sound of it and to a non train spotter they do all tend to look the same. marshalla said: She got on a train operated by a different company. She hadn't paid to be carried by that operator on any of their trains. True, but those of us that can remember when you bought a ticket and got on a train can find the new system of one company owning the rails and several companies runiing the trains confusing, especially when the train times vary and the one you were not supposed to be on arrives when the one you were booked on was going to turn up. marshalla said: Would she expect British Airways to fly her somewhere just because she had a KLM ticket but the plane left within the same 5 minute window ? What utter rubbish, try getting on a plane you are not booked on, there are lots of people whose job it is to prevent you getting on the wrong one, boarding passes, check ins the lot. An airport could be construed as broadly similar in business model to the new way of running the railways except they know they need to provide people to make sure passengers go the right way, maybe if the railways were simple and easy to use less people would end up on the wrong train or missing them altogether. I would not have paid the fine I bet the PA system was all crackly and crap and contributed to this easy mistake.
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Tyre Smoke
9,205 posts
130 months
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Dogleg, whilst you may make valid points, the fact remains that she got off lightly. To refuse payment would have met with the transport police at the next station, even if it wasn't a scheduled stop and further costs incurred for the hapless passenger.
Not really worth it for £40 is it?
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Efbe
4,864 posts
35 months
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Tyre Smoke said: Dogleg, whilst you may make valid points, the fact remains that she got off lightly. To refuse payment would have met with the transport police at the next station, even if it wasn't a scheduled stop and further costs incurred for the hapless passenger.
Not really worth it for £40 is it? why? providing name/address for an invoice makes it a civil matter
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Getragdogleg
3,666 posts
52 months
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Tyre Smoke said: Dogleg, whilst you may make valid points, the fact remains that she got off lightly. To refuse payment would have met with the transport police at the next station, even if it wasn't a scheduled stop and further costs incurred for the hapless passenger.
Not really worth it for £40 is it? I don't like the attitude "ohh, pay up love, after all you made a mistake" it was a mistake caused by a lot of external factors, my message to the train companies is f  k OFF with your f king fines you money grabbing b ds, stop using mistakes as a revenue stream and actually provide a service that works, on time and is easy for people to understand. £40, a figure set at a point where it is "not much" but also a bit more than inconvenient to lose to a mistake tax, it is right on the "oh, i might as well pay it and not make a fuss" threshhold that means the customers mistakes rake in the maximum amount each year, add in some quirks to the sytem that only a train spotter would know or understand and they are laughing all the way to the golf course. why as a species are we such utter s to eachother ?
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Negative Creep
11,274 posts
96 months
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Tyre Smoke said: Dogleg, whilst you may make valid points, the fact remains that she got off lightly. To refuse payment would have met with the transport police at the next station, even if it wasn't a scheduled stop and further costs incurred for the hapless passenger.
Not really worth it for £40 is it? This. National Rail Conditions of Carriage state the passenger must hold a valid ticket for the journey they intend to make, so she is in the wrong
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